REDSKINS, BRUNELL, AGREE!

[Hail2DaRedskinz]

Well I am shocked, The Redskins have agreed with the Jags to trade a 3rd round pick in return for vet QB Mark Brunell.

The figures? SEVEN YEARS 43 MILLION, 8.6 SIGNING BONUS.

THAT AINT BACKUP MONEY!

Looks like Brunell is our QB. I for one am kind of upset, as I think Ramsey is gunna be one of the better QBs in the league.

Go to ESPN.Com for the story.

[RedskinsFreak]

Looks like Brunell is our QB. I for one am kind of upset, as I think Ramsey is gunna be one of the better QBs in the league.

You and me both. I'm stewing hard over this one, about to boil over.

If this causes the Redskins to lose Ramsey, it's a BAD move -- plain and simple.

Ask me again if the Redskins get to the playoffs with Brunell.....

[Skinsfan55]

I think this is absolutely awful...

If Joe Gibbs doesn't think Ramsey is the future, than hopefully we can turn him for picks, etc.

[BossHog]

First of all... without a breakdown of the contract... how can you be upset? I'm not saying that it doesn't look like a lot of money, but this is the age of backloaded contracts and over inflated total salary amounts for the sake of the agents and the media.

I have no idea how it will break down.. but imagine this...

7 years... 43 million $8.6 SB means that there is about 34.5 mil in annual salaries.

2004 $1,000,000
2005 $1,500,000
2006 $3,000,000
2007 $6,000,000
2008 $7,000,000
2009 $8,000,000
2010 $8,000,000

now I'm JUST PROVIDING AN EXAMPLE... that's all.

So here's a $43 million contract over 7 years with an $8.6 million bonus... presume brunell plays 3 years... cap hits:
2004 - $2.1 M
2005 - $2.6 M
2006 - $3.1 M

then cut him after June 1st in 2007 and he costs about 2.5 mil each year (2007,2008) in pro rated signing bonus cap hit.

Now I don't know exactly what the deal will shake out like, but I just wanted to give you an example of how fans tend to fall into the hype of these bloated contracts without taking into consideration that it's all flash and that the player will never see the end of the contract where all the big money is. Add a big roster bonus in 2007 to make the contract look bigger and you can drop those annual salaries further still.


I'm going to wait until I see the breakdown before I start casting aspersions.

[HogInBlacksburg]

Here is a link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1739475


I think it's a good move. Pat will be the starter sooner or later.

[skinsfaninroanoke]

I agree with Boss - this is mostly backdated contract money with the contract lengthened out to stave off a big hit on the immediate cap space - calm down my fellow Hog brothers and sisters - this is expediency.

You wouldn't expect a good QB with Brunell's #'s and experience to get paid little or no money... if you listen to Boss you will see this isn't a huge deal and the ONLY money guaranteed to Brunell is the bonus.

Take deep breaths - it isn't automatic that Ramsey is gone - in fact I wouldn't be surprised to still see him starting

[owa]

The Washington Post just says it's heavily backloaded but doesn't give specifics. Hopefully the exact figures will come out soon.

[skinsfaninroanoke]

Watch and see - it is like Arrington getting almost no salary for the first few years to help the cap space for the team. That is why he got such a large bonus.

This is the way teams get around the camp and sign guys to these huge contracts - most of the years don't get paid. I don't get it - still leaves me scratching my head. I would rather be paid 9 years @ 2 mil with little signing bonus and see the 18 mil than play for 8 mil in signing bonus and see minimum vet salaries for 3 years then get cut. But I guess that is cause I don't have some little evil Wormtooth of an agent whispering in my ear all day...

[jDub]

with this move i'm a little distrustful of an "open" competition at quarterback. are we to truly believe that brunell, with the money he will be making, will be the "experienced" backup?

like bosshog, i too am curious to see what the yearly breakdown of salary is. regardless, a 7 year contract for 43 million dollars and an 8 million dollar signing bonus seems a lot for a quarterback who is in the twilight of his career. i mean c'mon! he's 34 with suspect health who was recently displaced by a rookie. it's not like we're getting brett favre at 34 or getting joe montana after his hall of fame career with the 49'ers. brunell was a good quarterback with workman like numbers. really...take a look at his career numbers...not eyepopping.

i think this move might stunt patrick ramsey's growth (if he's benched). and i do not believe in this "brunell as a mentor" b.s. i firmly believe in patrick's talent. put him in a run predicated offense with some actual "hot" reads and a few throws downfield and this kid will produce!

hey if brunell carries the 'skins to a superbowl victory next season i will be a happy man. but i doubt it. i'm a little concerned for the future of the quarterback position. and this time i don't think its' snyder's fault.

[skinsfaninroanoke]

What you are basically saying is that Gibbs is lying to everyone and that backloaded contracts don't happen in this league. The guy will probably make decent money the first three years without making a huge splash on the cap space, it will start accelerating and then he will retire after the fourth year.

Before you start saying that a man with the character of Gibbs is a liar, spouting a bunch of b.s. - wait and see.

I hate the friggin reporters who stir this crap up and drive fans to lose faith in their teams.

[jDub]

Before you start saying that a man with the character of Gibbs is a liar, spouting a bunch of b.s. - wait and see. I hate the friggin reporters who stir this crap up and drive fans to lose faith in their teams.

wow! hold on there roanoke. first of all, i'm not calling coach gibbs a liar. i do think however, that he is mismanaging the qb situation. he really should have said "hey, we like patrick but we would like him to wait a year or two and learn from the bench". maybe he couldn't because he was afraid of alienating the fans and perhaps the rest of the team. i don't know. i can only obviously (like yourself) speculate. from all accounts, the team believes in patrick as do the fans.

secondly, you mentioned my faith in the redskins. once again...wow. i was only 17 or 18 when they last won a superbowl. before that, i wouldn't have characterized myself as a fan of the 'skins. my highschool buddy and his father were huge 'skin fans and they invited my to watch the superbowl. i grew up in holland. so because of the time difference i watched this game 'til about 4 in the morning and i was hooked. since then, i have had to endure the very mediocre redskin teams of the 90's. and i loved every one of these teams. every season i would tell all my "big blue" loving friends that "hey, this year, watch out. we're coming to get you". of course this never happened. but it has never dampened my enthusiasm for the 'skins.

so, please, don't get me wrong. i was just as excited about gibbs return as the next fan. i live in new york so i've been rubbing it in the face of giants fans the whole first week of the announcement of his hiring. i'm just worrying (maybe selfishly) about patrick ramsey's future as a redskin. for the first time in a long time we have a quarterback that we drafted that could be cornerstone of this franchise. i'd hate to see him go to waste on the bench because a guy like brunell is there.

[skinsfaninroanoke]

Ok - let me see if I got this right - you state that the whole "open competition" was distrustful, that you didn't see Brunell making this money and being a backup, and that the whole "Brunell as a mentor" thing was a bunch of B.S.? You also stated in this last post that Gibbs is mismanaging the QB sitch? This is the last coach to lead us to major league winning seasons, beat the NFC East competition regularly (which we haven't done in 12 years) and win 3 superbowls with three different aging QBs and three different RBs?

I believe that your statements directly call into question statements that Gibbs has made to the contrary, often and publicly. To state the things you have stated seem to me, in my opinion, to have called Gibbs out, so to speak.

You haven't waited to see what is going to happen, what the salary numbers are, and haven't even begun to make arrangements to go to camp to check out if the reporters who love to hate the Skins aren't just stirring the pot.

The man has no reason to lie, no reason to even be back to a city coaching football for this team at 63 years old other than he loves this team and the fans. Yet the fans are going to take fathead's opinion pieces from people like Len "I haven't seen below my stomach in 40 years" Pasquarelli's word over Gibbs. This is the same reporter who questioned Gibbs' hiring saying that he was too long from the league and that the game had passed him by.

That brings me to the second point - I believe if you look at my statement it states that I hate the reporters who stir this crap up causing fans to lose faith in their team - I know of several who have been on here, friends of mine who I have come to know on here, who I have taken to task for losing faith in a man who should have the ultimate faith. When you question his spoken word, you challenge the reputation that he built up from the get go - players would have walked through armor plated glass to play for him and have said so.

Sorry, but I don't buy the fact that people who respect Gibbs can sit there and say what came out of his mouth was BS and they they are distrustful and don't believe it for a minute. It doesn't compute logically.

While you weren't a fan before the last SB, I was one before the first. I know this man Gibbs is a devout man who doesn't have to lie to win, he motivates players to want to win. I understand that you may be a bit gun shy considering the coaches we have had up til now, but trust me - if he says it is an open competition, it is.

The only thing that will cost PRam his job is himself sulking and not being ready to go head to head to prove he has what it takes to win.

Listen to interviews from Theismann, Riggins, and the rest of the players idolize him before you judge him. NFL Films did a TWO part story on him, so big was his story. Check that out at http://ww2.nfl.com/nflfilmstv - it isn't back up and running yet (they shut it down during the season), but it should be shortly. It is a killer story.

Once you hear the players talk about him, see him in action, then tell me that what he says in public isn't what he truly means... really - just watch him almost break down into tears talking about the fans of this team at his press conference and you might get an inkling of the depth of this man's character.

Understand please, this is the one true hero I have left in my life. I know this sounds like an attack, but it truly isn't. There is just a heat of conviction behind my words - not cutting you down personally.... I just want you all to believe in him like the old timers who watched him do.

[JPFair]

We don't know what's going to happen in the future as far as the Redskins are concerned. I'm excited at the whole thing, and have complete faith in our coach. But, one thing that I do know, is JOE GIBBS DOES NOT LIE!!

[redskins56]

I love Gibbs just as much as the next guy, and I too have chills about his return. But, he lied. It's simple, he told Pat that he was going to be given a chance to be a starter, and that won't be the case.

And Boss, the 7 year deal doesn't matter, no one is too upset about that I don't think. It's the $9million signing bonus. You would think he was a highly touted FA we won in a bidding war.

Ramsey is better, tougher, mentally stronger, a better leader, and is respected more in this locker room. Why should he not start?

-Geepz

[NC43Hog]

We just got a whole lot better at our quarterback position. That is what we should be focusing on (getting better), the numbers will work themselves out. We have paid dearly in the past for not having a good backup (whether it is Brunell or Ramsey this year) and I for one welcome the addition.

Now let's work on that D-Line.

[BossHog]

It's simple, he told Pat that he was going to be given a chance to be a starter, and that won't be the case.

Says who? Says you?

And Boss, the 7 year deal doesn't matter, no one is too upset about that I don't think. It's the $9million signing bonus. You would think he was a highly touted FA we won in a bidding war.

I have repeatedly tried to try and help explain cap stuff to you guys so that you will better understand but it doesn't seem to be helping. The signing bonus is high so that his annual salary is low... the length of the contract is long, so that the bonus can be spread out over that term.

Ramsey is better, tougher, mentally stronger, a better leader, and is respected more in this locker room. Why should he not start?-Geepz

I'm afraid that just strikes me as a very youthful statement. i love Ramsey too... but he's done nothing yet to prove he's the caliber of QB that Mark Brunell is. Brunell is a good QB with loads of experience. If SOS hadn't been in here and destroyed the beginning of patrick's career, nobody would even be questioning this move. But since he got thrown into the fire, and showed how much heart he has... we all love him.

Well that don't win you games or Super Bowls and it certainly was pretty surprising when Hasselbeck went in there completely green and ran the offense as well, or at least with as much success as Ramsey did.

The kid has a lot to learn. If he's already learned enough to beat Brunell out of a starting job, then I don't think Gibbs will go back on his word and start Brunell anyway. This is the way a young QB SHOULD be brought into the league, with a veteran to mentor him, push him, and more importantly, to try and win games for the Washington Redskins.

One last question... if Ramsey is so respected by his teammates and in the locker room... then why was he picking HIMSELF up after every sack?

[jaw32]

"Mark" my words, you will not be disappointed. As I said in another post, I have seen 90% of the games Brunell has played in the NFL. If he gets a little protection and some talent at WR (2 threats) he is awesome. Go Hogs!

[skins75]

I couldnt agree with BH more. You guys seem to be under the impression that Brunell has no right to be on this team. That P-RAM clearly justified being our starter this year because of the abuse he took last year. Well Im sorry that doesnt cut it on a Joe Gibbs team. Ramsey is our future but needs to sit back and learn a few things before he takes over the reigns. This signing/future signing is great for the Redskins as well as Ramsey. Trust JG he knows what he is doing. BTW: Just to settle some people down here. Ramsey is signed till 2006 and isnt going anywhere. No matter what he or Sexton wants. So lets not start this Ramsey is going to be traded crap again. It is not going to happen.

[Wysocki]

How many times do we need to say it: THE QB WHO PLAYS BETTER THROUGHOUT THE MINICAMPS AND THE EXHIBITION GAMES WILL BE THE STARTER. AND QUIT WORRYING ABOUT WHO WILL POUT OR WHO WILL DEMAND TO BE TRADED IF THEY DON'T WIN THE JOB. THE BACKUP WILL BE NEEDED AND THEY WILL BE READY. MOVE ON.

[NC43Hog]

I have been movin on - now we need to focus on the D. We always had strong D's during Gibbs first reign and we need one again. Quarterback now looks strong - next position please.

[skinsfaninroanoke]

Amen my brother Speek!

[West Coast Hog]

Nice avatar Wysocki. And agreed. The offense is there (Except RB). It will be all about the D this coming season.

[skinsfaninroanoke]

We aren't even that unsure about RB with no Gibbs based offense - Lord knows that we won one Superbowl with a nobody... who is saying that Betts and Canidate CAN'T perform under Gibbs' mentorship? If Gibbs sticks with them... I'll trust his leadership over my own personal preferences.

[RedskinsFreak]

And Boss, the 7 year deal doesn't matter, no one is too upset about that I don't think. It's the $9million signing bonus. You would think he was a highly touted FA we won in a bidding war.

I have repeatedly tried to try and help explain cap stuff to you guys so that you will better understand but it doesn't seem to be helping. The signing bonus is high so that his annual salary is low... the length of the contract is long, so that the bonus can be spread out over that term.

I understand the math, but I'll never understand the reasoning.

Teams do these deals knowing, from the beginning, that there's an accelerated cap hit coming in Year 3 or 4.

[West Coast Hog]

True about the RB. Who knows, he may decide to go with the Rock.