Where are all the Mike Williams guys now?

[JPFair]

I don't agree JP. I'm a Mike Williams guy and I seem to remember Williams being passed up for a cornerback, not for Jason Campbell. The game last night did absolutely nothing to prove we're OK at WR. Patten and Moss failed to show up, Dmac dropped three. Old man Dyson and our kick returner were our best WR's. Sellers was the best receiver (Oh my God. Did I just say that.)
And please don't respond by claiming Rogers is the second coming. That has certainly not been proven yet, and it is also apparent, from the game last night, that Smoot and Pierce were worth their gold. If the FO hadn't had a brush with insanity, we would have Pierce, Smoot, Williams, and Campbell and be on our way to the big time.
I respect Gibbs, but he's human, also just re-learning the league. To give him such faith at this point smacks of needing a cult leader.
He blew the off-season badly, financially and otherwise. Face up to it and move on

To respond to this would merely justify it as a credible post, which I don't think it is. But, seeing as you're one of those "Mike Williams" guys and convinced that the problem lies with the Wide Receivers instead of the person throwing it to them, as well as taking into consideration your past posts, then I suggest you jump on the Detroit Lions bandwagon. I hear they have a couple of excellent young WR's.

[Jake]

I'm right here. By the way, you can classify me as a "Mike Williams or whoever is best for the team guy."

I wanted Williams but I didn't ever NOT want Rogers. I am happy with Rogers. I just hope he gets healthy.

[Chris Luva Luva]

CLL, I agree with you that Campbell has nothing to do with not getting Williams, but here's the link to an interesting thread to highlight my point. In the thread, you'll see your own remarks where you express anger over the selection of Rogers instead of Williams. In fact, to quote you, you said "We don't need Rogers, we need Williams". I respectfully disagree. What we "need" is an excellent CB and a "Joe Gibbs" type of QB. That's what we got!!!

To get that post back from the dead and to use it now out of context is not accurate. I was never pissed at Gibbs personally for not picking Williams. That was just pure emotion and hype from the draft talking. I charge you to find a post more than a week past the draft where I put down Gibbs, the Skins, or Rogers. I still want Williams, I even traded to get him in my Madden franchise. Thats my opinion.

How do we know Rogers is an excellent CB just yet? Rogers hasn't played a down as a Skin yet, he's been injured since he got here. I like the kid but you're seriously jumping the gun. I choose to believe in his huge potential and ability to come a shutdown corner but he hasnt proven he's not a bust either.

Those faggots better pick Mike1!!!!!

WE DONT NEEEDD RODGERS!!!!!!!!!! WE NEED WILLIAMS!!!!!!! WE HAVE CB'S!!!! ILL PLAY CB!!!

These two quotes of me that you posted as I stated above are taken out of context. You're thread is titled "Where are all the Mike Williams guys now?". You then proceed to say "4- Where are all the "Joe Gibbs is washed up for not taking Mike Williams" guys now?" Im taking this personally because you lump me into being a "Mike Williams guy", and then say that these "Mike William guys" said Gibbs is washed up.

It's funny how the fans perspective on things always change.

My view has not changed.

Just a few months ago people were gunning for Gibbs' head just because he didn't select Mike Williams.

I'd never utter anything remotely close to that.

Again you lump us "Mike William" guys into a huge group. I wanted Mike and still do, that was the end of the story.

Show me some solid proof of anything you've seen during this preseason that proves we dont need a tall WR with good hands? Show me where Rogers has played and has looked solid?

Jason Campbell can't be used to prove you're right because was picked way after Williams.

[SkinsFanInHawai'i]

CLL, I agree with you that Campbell has nothing to do with not getting Williams, but here's the link to an interesting thread to highlight my point. In the thread, you'll see your own remarks where you express anger over the selection of Rogers instead of Williams. In fact, to quote you, you said "We don't need Rogers, we need Williams". I respectfully disagree. What we "need" is an excellent CB and a "Joe Gibbs" type of QB. That's what we got!!!

To get that post back from the dead and to use it now out of context is not accurate. I was never pissed at Gibbs personally for not picking Williams. That was just pure emotion and hype from the draft talking. I charge you to find a post more than a week past the draft where I put down Gibbs, the Skins, or Rogers. I still want Williams, I even traded to get him in my Madden franchise. Thats my opinion.

How do we know Rogers is an excellent CB just yet? Rogers hasn't played a down as a Skin yet, he's been injured since he got here. I like the kid but you're seriously jumping the gun. I choose to believe in his huge potential and ability to come a shutdown corner but he hasnt proven he's not a bust either.

Those faggots better pick Mike1!!!!!

WE DONT NEEEDD RODGERS!!!!!!!!!! WE NEED WILLIAMS!!!!!!! WE HAVE CB'S!!!! ILL PLAY CB!!!

These two quotes of me that you posted as I stated above are taken out of context. You're thread is titled "Where are all the Mike Williams guys now?". You then proceed to say "4- Where are all the "Joe Gibbs is washed up for not taking Mike Williams" guys now?" Im taking this personally because you lump me into being a "Mike Williams guy", and then say that these "Mike William guys" said Gibbs is washed up.

It's funny how the fans perspective on things always change.

My view has not changed.

Just a few months ago people were gunning for Gibbs' head just because he didn't select Mike Williams.

I'd never utter anything remotely close to that.

Again you lump us "Mike William" guys into a huge group. I wanted Mike and still do, that was the end of the story.

Show me some solid proof of anything you've seen during this preseason that proves we dont need a tall WR with good hands? Show me where Rogers has played and has looked solid?

Jason Campbell can't be used to prove you're right because was picked way after Williams.

Do you think we do not need Rogers because he got injured? I don't won't Harris as are perminent 2nd CB. I am not saying Rogers will immediatley step up and replace Smoot. But I do hope he can become better, especially with the coaching staff we have in place.

Not trying to take sides on the arguement going on. Just my

[JPFair]

How do we know Rogers is an excellent CB just yet?

I think he'll be a good CB, just like you think Mike Williams will be a good WR. How do we know HE'll be an outstanding WR just yet?

I charge you to find a post more than a week past the draft where I put down Gibbs, the Skins, or Rogers.

What difference does it make when someone expressed their anger over the decision? As I said in my second post, to highlight my point, one should go back and compare the pre-draft posts and the post-draft posts, and you'll see a total different attitude about Gibbs decision to selct Rogers now, than people had back then. Clearly, on the day, you were quite outraged that we got Rogers instead of Williams. Campbell, as I said in my earlier post, has nothing to do with it other than to anger those people that thought we should get the next available WR at that slot instead of Campbell.

I like the kid but you're seriously jumping the gun. I choose to believe in his huge potential and ability to come a shutdown corner but he hasnt proven he's not a bust either

Neither has Mike Williams. In fact, Williams hasn't even played a down in almost two years. At least Rogers showcased his stuff as recently as this past season.

Im taking this personally because you lump me into being a "Mike Williams guy", and then say that these "Mike William guys" said Gibbs is washed up.

Well, that's your choice, but it's certainly not meant to be personal. Although, when you say that I've got it mixed up, when I know I don't, I could have taken that personal too, but I didn't. If my post itself didn't make sense, see what hkhog said. THAT'S what my point was!! It never had anything to do with Jason Campbell, other than the fact that those people who wanted Mike Williams were so angry over not getting Mike Williams, that come #25, they were even angrier that we didn't get the 'next' best WR. Again, go back and look at the pre-draft posts and the post-draft posts. You'll see a completely different tone than the one you'e saying now.

JPFair wrote:
Just a few months ago people were gunning for Gibbs' head just because he didn't select Mike Williams.

I'd never utter anything remotely close to that.

Who said you did?

Show me some solid proof of anything you've seen during this preseason that proves we dont need a tall WR with good hands?

First of all, it's only one game into the pre-season. Second of all, you're missing the entire point. Look at it this way, show me some solid proof that we didn't need a good, young, "Joe Gibbs" type of QB to select at #25 instead of the "next best WR" since we didn't get Williams at #6? All I've said in this whole thread, is that the selection of Campbell doesn't look so bad now, does it? Who would you rather have: "The Next best WR at #25" or "Jason Campbell"?

Although the title of the post was referring directly to Mike Williams, Mike Williams was only a small portion of the content.

Jason Campbell can't be used to prove you're right because was picked way after Williams.

Dude, this is not a game of who wins and who loses with the posts. It's not a question of this being a personal attack on you. It' simply me throwing out some talking points. Nothing more, and nothing less. It should be taken no other way. So, I can't argue Jason Campbell to "prove I'm right". Although, the Campbell pick looks a lot better now than it did back in April doesn't it?

[Brandon777]

Some great point JP...I think you and I were alone last year in defending Brunell. Again it doesn't surprise me to see him playing well. That said I'm rooting for Ramsey, but it just doesn't hurt to have a Vet on the bench, all the while the rookie can take it all in!!

Don't forget me. I was one of the few Brunell supporters here. My first post ever here was in regards to my lack of confidence in Ramsey.

[Brandon777]

I was and still am a Mike Williams guy. I thought he would compliment our small speedy guys perfectly and be an awesome possession receiver and red zone threat. However, Carlos Rogers seems to be a good character guy and has the potential to be a very good CB. He was also my first choice at CB. I liked him over Rolle and Pacman.

I was very upset on draft day because I really wanted Mike Williams on this team and didn't think he would slip to us. When he did and we didn't take him, I was pissed. But that was several months ago and everyone who was pissed has now chilled out.

[Chris Luva Luva]

First of all, it's only one game into the pre-season. Second of all, you're missing the entire point. Look at it this way, show me some solid proof that we didn't need a good, young, "Joe Gibbs" type of QB to select at #25 instead of the "next best WR" since we didn't get Williams at #6?

THis makes no sense. Mike would have never been choosen with Jasons draft pick.

[Texas Hog]

I was and still am a Mike Williams guy. I thought he would compliment our small speedy guys perfectly and be an awesome possession receiver and red zone threat. However, Carlos Rogers seems to be a good character guy and has the potential to be a very good CB. He was also my first choice at CB. I liked him over Rolle and Pacman.

I was very upset on draft day because I really wanted Mike Williams on this team and didn't think he would slip to us. When he did and we didn't take him, I was pissed. But that was several months ago and everyone who was pissed has now chilled out.

Well said and ditto!

[Chris Luva Luva]

Let me clarify my point for you.

I dont care about what you're trying to prove in this thread. What irritated me was that you lumped people who liked Mike Williams and people who bashed the Skins together.

I charged you in the last post and I charge you again, find a post where I blasted the Skins.

When I said "those fagoots better pick Mike", that was said in jest. I was fooling around as I always do, the pick wasn't even made so how was I angry at that point?

When I said "we didn't need Rogers, Ill play CB", more joking from me. Did I seriously mean that I could play cb for the skins out of anger?

I didn't feel like we NEEDED Rogers. If you pulled more quotes from me you'd see that I felt Harris would be adequate and that WR was more of a need and CB was a want.

Explain to me again how the picking up Williams instead of Carlos and selecting Jason Campbell would have not had people hate on Gibbs?

Show me where I disagreed with the selection of Campbell. Gibbs was yelled at by the media for getting Campbell moreso than not getting Williams. I didn't care that we got Campbell and never said a bad word about him.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Williams has NOTHING to do with the selection of Jason Campbell, but it has EVERYTHING to do with what people were saying about Joe Gibbs after the draft. The people that wanted Mike Williams were criticizing Gibbs, not Campbell, for EVERYTHING we did in the draft.

Ok, I see what you're saying. However my entire issue with you using my quotes is that I do not fall under the people you're speaking of in the above statement. When you used my quotes, you were using them to support your opinion above. Pulling my quotes from way back then was stupid. You took them out of context and you weren't speaking to me in realtime. I was speaking to Justice Hog throughout the draft and he was a Mike fan too, he was upset.

I never said anything negative about Campbell.
I never said anything negative about Gibbs.

[JPFair]

O.K. Let me clarify my point!!

I dont care about what you're trying to prove in this thread.

I'm glad you don't care, because I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just trying to talk football. This isn't a contest to see who could prove anyone right or wrong, it's about talking about football. And, if you read my post, you'll see that all I was saying was that there's a difference in the way people view the draft now than they did back on April 25th. As Brandon777 said "That was then and this is now". A perfect point exactly!! Back then, a LOT of people were angry that we selected Rogers instead of Williams, and as I said, those people that wanted Williams thought we should go with a Big WR at # 25 but instead we went with Campbell. They weren't angry at Campbell, they were angry at not getting the next best available WR.

I charged you in the last post and I charge you again, find a post where I blasted the Skins.

O.K. I consider myself charged. However, first you have to explain to me what "charging" someone is. If I understand it correctly, I am charging YOU to show me where I said you DID bash the Skins. You told me I had it mixed up, and I told you that maybe you had it mixed up. I said in my post to compare the post draft posts to the sentiment around the boards now, and you'll see a different attittude. Your post where you said "We don't need Rogers, We need Williams" is a perfect example. You were angry at the time, but now you're more comfortable with what we did in the draft. At least, that's my interpretation of what you're saying. What's the big deal with that? I have no problem with that, however, I was just pointing out that the "Mike Williams" guys are now more comfortable about how we handled the draft, whereas back then, they were quite ticked off. Again, I charge you to go back to the week after the draft and see the posts then. It doesn't matter whether it was said out of anger or emotion, it is what it is.

I didn't feel like we NEEDED Rogers. If you pulled more quotes from me you'd see that I felt Harris would be adequate and that WR was more of a need and CB was a want.

Again, my exact point. People, yourself included, wanted us to get Williams first, and then a CB. When we got a CB, people wanted the next available Big WR. When they got Campbell, some people were downright angry. I never said YOU were angry, but notice some of the quotes where people said Gibbs has "no plan" for this team.

Explain to me again how the picking up Williams instead of Carlos and selecting Jason Campbell would have not had people hate on Gibbs?

I never explained it in the first place, so how could I possibly do it again?

Show me where I disagreed with the selection of Campbell

Show me where I said you did?

Pulling my quotes from way back then was stupid

Why is that? Are you saying that what you were saying back then was not how you really felt, and that you posted things that you didn't really mean to say? I mean, you post what you think, I hope. And, when you posted "We don't need Rogers, we need Williams" one can only deduce that that's what you think. And, as my post points out, that attitude has changed because as you even said in your first post, you're satisfied with who we got, yet on the day you said "We don't need Rogers". Bingo, there's my point. Things change over the course of a few months and they see the need for certain things that Joe Gibbs saw way back then.

I never said anything negative about Campbell.
I never said anything negative about Gibbs.

Nobody said you did, certainly not me. I know you're one of the more loyal Redskins fans here, and I don't doubt your support for the team. However, if you look at some of those quotes, you'll see real anger at Gibbs for taking Rogers instead of Williams.

I was speaking to Justice Hog throughout the draft and he was a Mike fan too, he was upset.

I hate to sound redundant, but once again, you're highlighting my point. People were angry back then, but they're not now. That is my entire point. I said that it's funny how people change their perspective on things, and that's a classic example. People, yourself and allegedly Justice Hog "were angry". Are you angry now? I rest my case!!!

If you really want me to, I can go back to those posts and pick out the ones where people were bashing Gibbs for selecting Rogers instead of Williams and ultimately taking Campbell instead of the next best WR, but I doubt very much I'll find one from you. But, if you'd like me to go back and post the ones that actually DID bash Gibbs and the rest of the FO for it, I'll be more than happy if that's what it'll take to make you take this a little less personal.

[Chris Luva Luva]

My whole thing was that when you used my quotes it made it seem like I was one of those people who bashed Gibbs you just lumped the Mike likers with the Gibbs bashers. What you wrote wasn't that clear at 1st.

[JPFair]

Your quotes were but a small portion of a greater number of quotes to highlight the difference in opinions from back then and how they are now. Simple as that.

[John Manfreda]

Carlos Rogers hasn't even been in a practice yet. So far Mike Williams has the upper hand. Do ur research. Carlos Rogers injury looks like its been an old injury which means he is injury prone. Don't boost about the draft. Rothersberger looked horrible in the preseason last year and Eli looked good. I have a question who do u think is better. Preseason doesn't mean jack.

[1niksder]

Carlos Rogers hasn't even been in a practice yet. So far Mike Williams has the upper hand. Do ur research. Carlos Rogers injury looks like its been an old injury which means he is injury prone. Don't boost about the draft. Rothersberger looked horrible in the preseason last year and Eli looked good. I have a question who do u think is better. Preseason doesn't mean jack.

Rodgers went thru full workouts today with the first team.

I did my research

Now onto CLL and JPFair....
JP you can't back up the things that Chris says you said because you never said it.

Chris doesn't feels he should not be grouped in with the William's people that bashed Gibbs because he wasn't with them and didn't do that.

If I'm right so far, then this thread was about the reaction to the draft then and how some feel now.

However we have strayed.... let's start over

Just a few points from my perspective:

1- If nothing else, Joe Gibbs will be vindicated for selecting Campbell in the 1st round. Everyone who questioned why he hasn't had the utmost of confidence in Ramsey should now be thanking Gibbs for seeing something that doesn't make him convinced yet. Ramsey will still get the upper hand at starting, but Ramsey should take nothing for granted.

The pick of JC made perfect sense when it was made - Ramsey and Brunell were both shaky and Matt was Matt. Moving into the 1st round was the only way to get the guy he wanted

2- It really does boil down to one thing with Ramsey: He is atrocious in the pocket. He looks uncomfortable, indecisive, tries to do too much, doesn't know what the right thing is, and refuses to change his bad habits. He has no choice but to change his bad habits, because he's not a mobile QB, yet he steadfastly refuses to heed the Coaches advice about how to be comfortable in the pocket. Put it this way, he's not a good student of the game. And, in this business and at his age, you'd damn well better be a good student of the game.

Brunell may turnout to be a capable backup for Ramsey which will give Jason time to develope.

3- All those people that say "Brunell sucks" and he's "washed up" should not proclaim his career over. One bad year does not a career make. He has several good years under his belt, and one bad year does not automatically make him a washed up QB. Yes, he sucked last year, but so did a lot of Redskins players. Does he deserve to start after one good showing in the first pre-season game? Absolutely not, but just like Ramsey shouldn't take anything for granted, I would hope Brunell strives to be the best QB he can possibly be. Irregardless of his critics, and how many people think he "sucks", Brunell is a class act, he's a professional, and ultimately he will be vindicated, whether that be as a starter or a backup remains to be seen.

He'll be the backup if we are lucky, still in this day and age he'll be needed sooner or later (it would be nice not to miss a beat). My question is how injured was he last year. He's competative was he hiding something (they're famous for that in Jacksonville and he was here for ever)

4- Where are all the "Joe Gibbs is washed up for not taking Mike Williams" guys now?

Most that wanted Mike Williams didn't call Gibbs washed up, most were confused and disappointed.
You are refering to the small band of nutjobs that will always blame the FO for every move that differs from them (it doesn't matter that the suck at Madden and FF - they know it all). They only come out when there is something to complain about.

5- Ramsey will get better as the pre-season goes on, but he's never going to be comfortable in the pocket. NEVER!!! What he needs to do is watch Tom Brady for one game. Drop back, find the open receiver, and let it rip, all in one fluid motion. None of this patting the ball, taking a ton of time to find the open guy, panicking in the pocket, and being vulnerable to the blitz crap. Again, in one fluid quick motion, drop back, find the guy, let her rip!! He simply has to change his nasty habits if he has any hope of being a top QB in the league. Can he do it? It remains to be seen, but Joe Gibbs is giving him a chance and he needs to take that chance and show him that he's worthy of it. If he continually refuses to change his habits, then he'll end up as a perennial back up QB jumping from team to team throughout his career but never living up to his potential.

It's funny how the fans perspective on things always change. Just a few months ago people were gunning for Gibbs' head just because he didn't select Mike Williams. Now, the ones that like Ramsey are either saying "give him time" or "he needs better protection" or "he's got potential". To age myself, and to quote a famous commercial from the 80's, "Where's the beef"? Ramsey is our starter, and we're going to sink or swim with him this year. But, his leash is getting shorter and shorter, and Gibbs long term plans for this franchise should no longer be questioned. Gibbs knows what he's doing, and when he's not 100% convinced of a persons ability to lead the team back to winning ways, people should not ask why the hell not? They should merely accept it, and let him do his job. Even after one pre-season game, I'll bet all those "I want Mike Williams" guys are going to silently transition over to a "This guy Campbell has some potential" type of guy.

Just my .02

This is Ramsey's year, what he does with it is up to him.
Joe Gibbs isn't sure how this year will turn out but it appears he has planned for the worst.

As far as the fans perspective goes for some that changes from day to day.

[Chris Luva Luva]

You understood what I was saying, I thought my cries went unheard.

[JPFair]

If I'm right so far, then this thread was about the reaction to the draft then and how some feel now.

Yep!

The pick of JC made perfect sense when it was made - Ramsey and Brunell were both shaky and Matt was Matt. Moving into the 1st round was the only way to get the guy he wanted

This is sort of correct, but as I pointed out, if you look at some of the post draft threads, you'll see copious amounts of anger over the selection of Rogers over Williams, as well as anger over the selection of JC over the next best "big WR". It's all in the threads, I'm only going by what people post. And, judging by CLL's reaction to being quoted to highlight my point, I shouldn't do so because any post-draft posts should not be considered because they were made in the heat of the moment, and as such, lacked any type of credibility or veracity. However, I'm of the opinion that when people post something, that that's exactly what they mean.

Brunell may turnout to be a capable backup for Ramsey which will give Jason time to develope

I don't think anyone could argue with that, however, it does make the JC selection a lot more palpable to those that were angered over it, and yes, there were some that were angered over it.

He'll be the backup if we are lucky, still in this day and age he'll be needed sooner or later (it would be nice not to miss a beat). My question is how injured was he last year. He's competative was he hiding something (they're famous for that in Jacksonville and he was here for ever)

Another point that I completely agree with, with the one possible exception of that he'll be the backup whether "we're" lucky or not, I feel he'll be the backup if the coaches want him to be.

You are refering to the small band of nutjobs that will always blame the FO for every move that differs from them (it doesn't matter that the suck at Madden and FF - they know it all). They only come out when there is something to complain about.

You hit the proverbial nail on the head, however, as I was "charged" to show posts where he bashed Gibbs, I charged CLL to show me a post where I grouped HIM in this 'small band of nutjobs". In fact, the only reason for my 'inclusion' of CLL's quotes were in direct rebuttal to the assertion that I had things "mixed up". My points were never "mixed up". He said " we didn't need Rogers, we need Williims" and I beleived that to be his point of view. In future, I guess I should wait a few months to determine if what is said is actually what he means. However, as I pointed out, yes, I was referring to that small band of nutjobs who will never be happy. For instance, take a look at Manfredas post. I say no more!

This is Ramsey's year, what he does with it is up to him.

Exactly what I meant when I said that we're going to sink or swim with Ramsey this year.

Joe Gibbs isn't sure how this year will turn out but it appears he has planned for the worst.

As any good coach would! And, although it's only been one game, but judging by our play in the Carolina game and the Ravens scrimmage we whould consider ourselves lucky that Gibbs has planned accordingly.

As far as the fans perspective goes for some that changes from day to day.

And my point is finally made!!!

[Chris Luva Luva]

And, judging by CLL's reaction to being quoted to highlight my point, I shouldn't do so because any post-draft posts should not be considered because they were made in the heat of the moment, and as such, lacked any type of credibility or veracity. However, I'm of the opinion that when people post something, that that's exactly what they mean.

So you understood redskin1's entire reply but failed to understand this when peice...

Chris doesn't feels he should not be grouped in with the William's people that bashed Gibbs because he wasn't with them and didn't do that.

Im not going back on what I said, I wanted Mike and I still would take him if they'd trade for Brunell . The only thing I said was that you took one thing out of context and that was me refferring to the Skins as "faggots". I dont even need to defend and wont waste my time doing so.

I wanted Mike, I was dissapointed we didn't get him. Im happy with Rogers, Im elated with Jason. My wants or opinions have not changed, I accepted what the Skins did and feel that they did whats best for the team. I refuse to rant about something I can't change, Im going to root for Rogers even though I wanted Mike. My next avatar is going to be of Rogers.

However DO NOT group me in with Gibbs bashers, this is the reoccuring theme that you keep failing to miss.

[SkinsLaVar]

We needed Mike Williams, but we needed a corner even more.

If Smoot didn't leave us, everything would be fine and jolly, but he left...So things didn't go as planned.

If we had picked up Williams, our offense would improve a lot in the redzone situations. Afterall, Williams is a 6'5 target, not very hard to miss.

But then again, on defense, we were a car missing a wheel. Offenses would pick us apart and we would give up way too many points, like you have seen in the preseason game with Ade Jimoh shmo playing corner.

Carlos Rogers is a top CB, he is the new wheel. Now we have a car with all 4 of it's wheels. Some shiny rims would be nice, but you have to have all 4 wheels first...in order to go forward.

[JPFair]

So you understood redskin1's entire reply but failed to understand this when peice...
redskin1 wrote:
Chris doesn't feels he should not be grouped in with the William's people that bashed Gibbs because he wasn't with them and didn't do that.

I completely agree with this, as I never grouped you in with anyone. I added your quote because I thought YOU had gotten things "mixed up" as opposed to me. And, when I say mixed up, it appeard that you got my point mixed up. Contrary to what you said, my point was not mixed up. Then again, you've got it mixed up as well when you say I grouped you in with Gibbs bashers.

I wanted Mike, I was dissapointed we didn't get him. Im happy with Rogers, Im elated with Jason. My wants or opinions have not changed, I accepted what the Skins did and feel that they did whats best for the team.

In spite of the fact that you said "WE DON'T NEED ROGERS, WE NEED WILLIAMS, I'LL PLAY CB". O.K. Then, like I said, in future, I'll just take everything you say and wait four months do determing if that's what you meant or not. The above quote was not grouping you in with anyone. If anything, the "gibbs bashers" being referred to were the likes of Manfreda, Crazyhorse, Domin_8, etc... You were nowhere in that "grouping" at all. YOu simply chose to be because one of your quotes was in there and I asked you if YOU were the one that got things mixed up. No need to get yoru panties in a bunch just cuz you said something that you didn't really mean. It wasn't taken out of context, there's no way to take THAT thing out of context. You either think we needed Rogers or you don't!! But, to put your mind at ease, you're never going to get me to say that I was grouping you in with "gibbs bashers" cuz I don't think you were. But, if you like, I'll go back to the draft day threads and bring up more rants about our draft choices if you like. Whether there's any of your quotes in there or not is of little significanace. As 1niksider pointed out, the point is that there's a HUGE change in the fans opinion then and now. Then, people were angry. Now, like you say above, you like Rogers. Hell, you'll even have him as your avatar yet four months ago you were saying we should have goten Williams instead of him. It's the same thing last year with K2. People said we should take him, then when we get Taylor people love him. Half way through the season they're glad we took Taylor and they're thanking their stars that we didn't take K2.

However DO NOT group me in with Gibbs bashers, this is the reoccuring theme that you keep failing to miss

Actually, I think you're wrong on this. The recurring theme that I'm not missing is that you seem to think I AM groupting you with Gibbs bashers. To quote your own line, "I charge you then, and I charge you now" to show me where I mentioned that you bashed Gibbs in any way?

[BossHog]

Play nice kids... besides... you're confusing the heck out of me with all of this, 'You were mixed up about my being mixed up about you mixing up the mix ups.'

[John Manfreda]

Rodgers went thru full workouts today with the first team.
most were confused and disappointed.

He hadn't practiced a game yet, when I posted it. Today was his first practice.

[dnpmakkah]

Let me clarify my point for you.
What irritated me was that you lumped people who liked Mike Williams and people who bashed the Skins together.

JP Fair lumping "Mike Williams Guys" with "Gibbs Haters" is sort of what people said about me last year. I was harsh on Ramsey and people said I wasn't a true Skins fan and that I was a badwagoneer. So just because I don't think Ramsey is good yet makes me a Skins hater?

Anyways my point is that even though he lumped them together I don't think thats what he meant.

[sch1977]

Rodgers went thru full workouts today with the first team.
most were confused and disappointed.

He hadn't practiced a game yet, when I posted it. Today was his first practice.

Confused?