Our WR Corps

SCSkinsFan · Post by **SCSkinsFan** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:11 pm

"Ricky Sanders joined Art Monk and Gary Clark to form a group nicknamed "The Posse" in the '80s.

But let's take a step back. Although he might tell you differently, Mike Martz wasn't the first to use multiple formations so successfully. According to SI.com's resident football strategy expert, Paul Zimmerman, the multi-receiver phenomenon had its roots in the early '80s.

After a series of rule changes instituted to increase scoring (illegal chucks, less strict application of offensive holding, no stickum, etc.), coaches started to expand their passing games.

In 1981, Joe Gibbs' Redskins switched to a one-running back set and their offense took off. Gibbs inverted traditional logic by softening the defense with the passing game to open up the running game, and later in the '80s he used three talented receivers -- Art Monk, Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders -- to do this. Dr. Z rattled off dozen nicknames for the Redskins' multi-receiver attack -- Trips, Spaghetti, Bunch, the Snake. (He was simultaneously discussing lunch with the Flaming Redhead, so perhaps I misunderstood some of the names). Whatever you called it, the 'Skins' single-back gameplan caught defenses off guard. With all those talented receivers running around, defenses had to lay back to guard the pass, which helped the running game.

Not long after Gibbs started winning Super Bowls, the run-and-shoot offense came into vogue, featuring one back, four receivers and no tight ends."

Article above was taken from an article in CNN.com by Andrew Perloff. Can't believe we even got some decent comments from the hated Dr. Z.

Do you think out current WR Corps will ever approach the achivements of "The Posse"? We can only hope that they can come close.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:30 pm

SCSkinsFan wrote:Do you think out current WR Corps will ever approach the achivements of "The Posse"? We can only hope that they can come close.

First of all, welcome to the board. You obviously have known the Skins for quite a while.

It is too early to tell. I would be happy if only one of our current receivers earns a decent comparison to any of the members of "The Posse". Our offense (QB-WRs) has not bonded enough in the past to make any predictions at this time.

I would be happy if out of the current crop there is at least one WR who can achieve as much as any one member of the Posse did. It is too early to tell but I am sure that Joe has a few names in his mind already.

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:04 am

I wouldn't compare these receivers to the posse no matter what they do. It's not really about what these receivers can do. They are good enough to do whatever Joe wants them to do. What it's going to come down to is our offensive line. If it's as good as I think it will be, then these receivers will start to be compared to the posse if they stick around long enough. Our offensive line in Gibbs first tenure is what allowed the posse do do what they did. It's what allowed Rypien to have that great year.

I think our line will be pretty darn good. And as a result, I think our WRs will look pretty good as well...

Probably not as good as the posse, but ya never know ;-)

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:24 pm

Our receivers will be fine if not borderline spectacular.........if we can get a qb that can consistently get the ball to them.

WshSkins22 · Post by **WshSkins22** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:25 pm

Thats where Ramsey comes in man...

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:37 pm

You hope. But we shall see. If he can't get the job done with the talent now around him he will be canned. No more excuses.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:36 pm

Scottskins wrote:

Probably not as good as the posse, but ya never know

We will be lucky if one of them turns out to be as good as Ricky Sanders! I can tell THERE ISN'T AN ART MONK OR GARK CLARK type WR on this team, and it is extremely unrealistic to think that any of these WR will transform into a Hall of Fame type WR.[/quote]

SCSkinsFan · Post by **SCSkinsFan** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:15 pm

RIC Wrote:

[You obviously have known the Skins for quite a while.]

Yep. Season ticket holder since RFK opened.

Actually had the chance to meet Charley Taylor, Bobby Mitchell, Sonny (Ray Floyd was there with him), et. al. at the Marriott in Dallas in the late 60's before they left to go to the Cotton Bowl. A game in which they defeated the Cowpukes on a Gogolak field goal with 8 seconds left.[/quote]

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:23 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:We will be lucky if one of them turns out to be as good as Ricky Sanders! I can tell THERE ISN'T AN ART MONK OR GARK CLARK type WR on this team, and it is extremely unrealistic to think that any of these WR will transform into a Hall of Fame type WR.

TC might have issues with this but I have to disagree with your statement.
No one was predicting Monk would be a Hall of Famer after just 4 years.

If you compare our receivers first 4 years to what Monk did, there isn’t much difference other than the teams they played for…

Player Rec. Yards Avg. TD
Monk 196 2884 14.6 15
Dyson 135 1850 14.3 14
Moss 151 2416 14.6 19

Jacobs has only been here two years and Patten and McCants would be a waste of time to post.
I went with their first four years because Moss has only played four .

So to say that we don’t have anyone that COULD reach the level that Monk did is just incorrect.
Do we have anyone with the dedication and commitment of Art Monk is a good question.

runbillo · Post by **runbillo** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:35 am

Greetings from NYC: Our current group of recievers will not be as good as the posse. That said this group will be the best set of recievers in the division and be twice as good as our recievers were last year!

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:41 am

SCSkinsFan wrote:"Ricky Sanders joined Art Monk and Gary Clark to form a group nicknamed "The Posse" in the '80s.

But let's take a step back. Although he might tell you differently, Mike Martz wasn't the first to use multiple formations so successfully. According to SI.com's resident football strategy expert, Paul Zimmerman, the multi-receiver phenomenon had its roots in the early '80s.

After a series of rule changes instituted to increase scoring (illegal chucks, less strict application of offensive holding, no stickum, etc.), coaches started to expand their passing games.

In 1981, Joe Gibbs' Redskins switched to a one-running back set and their offense took off. Gibbs inverted traditional logic by softening the defense with the passing game to open up the running game, and later in the '80s he used three talented receivers -- Art Monk, Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders -- to do this. Dr. Z rattled off dozen nicknames for the Redskins' multi-receiver attack -- Trips, Spaghetti, Bunch, the Snake. (He was simultaneously discussing lunch with the Flaming Redhead, so perhaps I misunderstood some of the names). Whatever you called it, the 'Skins' single-back gameplan caught defenses off guard. With all those talented receivers running around, defenses had to lay back to guard the pass, which helped the running game.

Not long after Gibbs started winning Super Bowls, the run-and-shoot offense came into vogue, featuring one back, four receivers and no tight ends."

Article above was taken from an article in CNN.com by Andrew Perloff. Can't believe we even got some decent comments from the hated Dr. Z.

Do you think out current WR Corps will ever approach the achivements of "The Posse"? We can only hope that they can come close.

An acquaintance of mine has in his possession a 1991 Redskins playbook and a 2000 Rams playbook. Interestingly enough, they are completely identical. My 2 cents

BernieSki · Post by **BernieSki** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:37 pm

If I remember hearing or reading correctly Mike Martz worked as an assistant coach under Joe Gibbs. Does anyone know the details?

EasyMoney · Post by **EasyMoney** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:51 pm

BernieSki wrote:If I remember hearing or reading correctly Mike Martz worked as an assistant coach under Joe Gibbs. Does anyone know the details?

I think Martz was a disciple of Holmgren. Holmgren and Gibbs were disciples of Coryell.

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:21 pm

He was the offensive coordinator here as well, under Norvel if memory serves me.

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:05 pm

He was our QB coach in 97 and 98. I'll try to find his bio.

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:19 pm

Martz rejoined Rams in 1999 after two seasons as quarterbacks coach of Washington Redskins.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/coaching/STL

He wasn't too bad as our QB's coach. If our offensive line didn't give up 49 sacks with Trent Green in, maybe his 3,441 yards would have been worth something and we would have been better than 6-10. :shock:

sch1977 · Post by **sch1977** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:21 pm

EasyMoney wrote:
BernieSki wrote:If I remember hearing or reading correctly Mike Martz worked as an assistant coach under Joe Gibbs. Does anyone know the details?

I think Martz was a disciple of Holmgren. Holmgren and Gibbs were disciples of Coryell.

Wasnt Martz the Skins QB coach?

sch1977 · Post by **sch1977** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:22 pm

Sorry Jake, just now saw your post

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:09 pm

JansenFan wrote:He was the offensive coordinator here as well, under Norvel if memory serves me.

He obviously didn't learn anything while here.

SCSkinsFan · Post by **SCSkinsFan** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:38 pm

Who, Martz or Norv? While we are at it, which would you chose?

Two back offense throwing to Charley Taylor, Bobby Mitchell, and Jerry Smith or the one back offense throwing to Monk, Clark and Sanders? :?:

BATMAN · Post by **BATMAN** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:15 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:Scottskins wrote:
Probably not as good as the posse, but ya never know

We will be lucky if one of them turns out to be as good as Ricky Sanders! I can tell THERE ISN'T AN ART MONK OR GARK CLARK type WR on this team, and it is extremely unrealistic to think that any of these WR will transform into a Hall of Fame type WR.

[/quote]

You're probably right because they are different people. Should Minnesota just give up because they don't have anybody who is Randy Moss? Thats absurd, of course.

There hasn't been another Sammy Baugh since he was around. Of course we had somebody even better....Sonny Jurgenson. No there will never be an Art Monk or Gary Clark but you can't say that Moss won't fit into this season's system just as well as Clark fit into the OLD system.

Maybe Santana Moss will only be called upon to go deep, catch 45 passes for 800 yards, but if he catches 12 TD passes then he has done his job. Dar McCants may be the answer we need as a big receiver and if he only catches 50 passes but half of them are 3rd down catches for a 1st down, then he gives Portis even more chances to run the ball and we keep the chains moving and Dar has done his job.

Different time, different place, different situation. No, Art Monk and Gary Clark are not back....and never will be. But now is the time to begin a new history and stop trying to relive the past.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:08 am

Monk, Clark, Sanders, Charlie Taylor, Jerry Smith, Bobby Mitchell! People are comparing our present receivers with this bunch! Holy Dreamland! What are you guys smoking?

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:35 am

I didn't see anyone comparing them to these players. I believe the original question was whether any of our current receivers could achieve the same things as any of them...

Way to twist it as usual...

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:34 am

crazyhorse1 wrote:Monk, Clark, Sanders, Charlie Taylor, Jerry Smith, Bobby Mitchell! People are comparing our present receivers with this bunch! Holy Dreamland! What are you guys smoking?

Then who do you expect people to compare them to? Westbrook?

What are you smoking?

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:14 pm

SCSkinsFan wrote:Yep. Season ticket holder since RFK opened.

A good fan in my book.

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