Redskin Defense adds Strength

SKINS#1 · Post by **SKINS#1** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:28 pm

Hot Topic: Redskins Defense Adds Strength
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July 9, 2005 at 7:22pm ET

A Redskins defense that was surprisingly the NFL's third-best in 2004 despite playing most of the season without projected starters LaVar Arrington, Phillip Daniels and Matt Bowen returns those three players as well as nine of last year's regulars.

The defense should also be better just because it has the same man in charge, assistant head coach Gregg Williams, for a second straight season for the first time since 1999 (Mike Nolan was succeeded the next year by Ray Rhodes who was followed by Kurt Schottenheimer, Marvin Lewis , George Edwards and Williams).

However, the defense did lose its two most vocal leaders and two of its better players to free agency in middle linebacker Antonio Pierce and cornerback Fred Smoot . Pierce, who jumped to the NFC East rival New York Giants, zoomed from unheralded backup to top tackler last year while also absorbing the intricacies of Williams' schemes. Smoot, who was probably born yapping, was the only cocky member of the secondary and was a fine all-around corner the past four seasons. He signed with Minnesota.

The Redskins could easily have matched both offers, but chose not to top the deals they have the previous offseason to linebacker Marcus Washington and cornerback Shawn Springs . While admirable in principle, those decisions could prove very costly.

There are eight, count 'em eight, candidates at the moment to replace Pierce, but only 35-year-old Micheal Barrow, who missed all of last year and this offseason with a bad knee, has NFL experience in the middle. And while veteran Walt Harris and top draft pick Carlos Rogers will battle to succeed Smoot, Harris probably better suited for the nickel back role he filled last year and Rogers is not only a rookie but will likely be limited when camp starts on Aug. 1 because of a sprained right foot that is currently immobilized.

Then there are the ailing knees of Arrington and defensive tackle Brandon Noble that kept them out of minicamp and much of the offseason program. It's unsure how much either player will be able to do early in camp. Lemar Marshall , who started most of last year when Arrington was hurt, is ready to do so again if necessary.

Second-year safety Sean Taylor boycotted the entire offseason until being excused from minicamp by coach Joe Gibbs in order to focus on his legal troubles. Taylor is facing a felony assault charge and a three-year mandatory sentence if convicted. Trial is tentatively set for Sept. 12, the day after the season opener against Chicago, but will likely be postponed until the offseason. If Taylor is unavailable at some point, Ryan Clark , Andre Lott and former Bill Pierson Prioleau have all started in Williams' system.

The defense's strongest links are tackle Cornelius Griffin , who should have gone to the Pro Bowl, weak side linebacker Washington, who did, Springs, and when healthy and focused, Taylor and Arrington (the former has been embroiled in controversy almost since he was drafted fifth overall in 2004 while the latter has felt like an unloved spare part since he was first hurt last September).

Like Harris and Bowen, ends Renaldo Wynn and Daniels and tackles Noble and Joe Salave'a -- who splits time with Noble -- succeed more with smarts and moxie than with athletic ability.

The defense added experience by signing cornerback Artrell Hawkins from Carolina and safety Tony Dixon for Dallas as well as linebackers Warrick Holdman (Cleveland) and Brian Allen (Carolina). The departures of reserve tackle Jermaine Haley and backup safeties Todd Franz , Pat Dennis and Jason Doering won't be felt.

Williams and his top-notch staff led by former Bears coordinator Greg Blache and former Chargers coordinator Dale Lindsey showed last year that they can make the best out of what they're given. Whether the wonderful chemistry the defense had last year can be repeated minus Pierce and Smoot is the big question.

Smithian · Post by **Smithian** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:02 am

Arrington = Replaceable.

Didn't think I'd say that pre-2004.

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:21 am

I know. I was such a huge fan of Arringtons too. I'm so tired of his whining(the team doesn't love me, they caused my re-injuries and they screwed me on my contract) I actually wouldn't be that disappointed if the arbitrator nullifies his contract and he signs with another team. It's bad enough that he's never been able to play within the system. Now we really know how well a team can play without the superstars. We sure could use that huge contract he has in other areas of the team....

Hopefully, he'll get healthy and just come to camp and play good solid team football. That would be nice for a change eh? He could dominate by doing that. Washington fans really do love the guy. If he would just mature into the player we all know he could be...

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:46 pm

Glad to see people are coming around on the mouth that is arrington. It will be nice to have Bowen back.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:13 pm

Smithian wrote:Arrington = Replaceable.

Didn't think I'd say that pre-2004.

Not just him but everybody. My boy smoot, champ, taylor, everyone.

I believe that pre-2004 this wouldn't have been the case. Before Gregg and excluding Marvin, we need players to pick up the slack for poor coaching. Thats why we needed #1 picks at every position.

Now that we have SUPERB coaching, we can place undrafted and 7th rounds picks at any position!

fredp45 · Post by **fredp45** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:16 pm

Face it -- everyone is replaceable. But why do that??

Is he always in position? No. Does he try to do too much? Yes. Is he an egomanic? Yes. Is he a guy that needs press? Yes. Does he say stupid stuff? Yes. Does he intimidate opponents? Without a doubt. Can he change the outcome of a game with a big hit on a QB, RB or WR? Yes.

Anyone remember the hit he laid on Vick in the preseason game? Vick didn't play again that game, their coach was afraid we were going to hurt Vick. I thought LeVar killed him...

When healthy, LeVar is an intimidating player -- there are only a handful of guys that make other NFL players look around - during the play! We have 2 of them now. When he's flying around, he just makes your mouth drop with his abilities...he makes you say, "WOW, where did he come from?" "How did he do that?"

I love watching the guy. I played sports a lot growing up and there are some guys that are born with so much athletic abilities...they are fun to watch. Arrington is one of those guys.

I find it amazing that Skins fans bad mouth him. Let him get healthy and play alongside Washington & Taylor. I will tell you, Pinkston won't be the only guy with alligator arms out there.

thecoach · Post by **thecoach** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:17 pm

I just joined this group and I'm shocked that anyone thinks that players can be replaced so easily. I can't think of any players league wide that I would replace Arrington or Taylor with. Ther is a reason why high draft picks are so coveted. Athleticism, Speed and Heart = Playmaker. While the Redskins have great coaches, in the end its the players that make it happen. Usually a team of average players just won't cut the cake. Many will say look at the Patriots. The Patriots have a (Squad) of very talented fast players with heart. They have a very good scouting department. There staff has also excelled in grooming players for their time to shine. However, I can't think of one player on that Squad (defensively) that has the natural ability of Arrington or Taylor to make consistent game changing plays throughout a season. The great thing about the Redskins this coming year is that we finally can say we have a Squad to and quest who's on it.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:44 pm

thecoach wrote:I just joined this group and I'm shocked that anyone thinks that players can be replaced so easily. I can't think of any players league wide that I would replace Arrington or Taylor with. Ther is a reason why high draft picks are so coveted. Athleticism, Speed and Heart = Playmaker. While the Redskins have great coaches, in the end its the players that make it happen. Usually a team of average players just won't cut the cake. Many will say look at the Patriots. The Patriots have a (Squad) of very talented fast players with heart. They have a very good scouting department. There staff has also excelled in grooming players for their time to shine. However, I can't think of one player on that Squad (defensively) that has the natural ability of Arrington or Taylor to make consistent game changing plays throughout a season. The great thing about the Redskins this coming year is that we finally can say we have a Squad to and quest who's on it.

Welcome to the site, you'll like it here and find many different opinions about the Skins.

As far as replacing players like Taylor and Arrington being hard to replace, I don't see it.
Taylor was a rookie last year(not your average/above adverage rookie) and did not start all 16 games, so we have played without him. Lavar on the other hand only played in 2 games he Has been replaced. Although his replacement may now need to fill for AP.

Taylor was outstanding rookie season but it's one season and the dude seems unstable (if we see this- Williams has a plan).

As I have said in the past our returning players
LA, Bowen, Daniels,Lott and Barrows would top any Free agent class of 2005. We just need them on the field

BTW: thecoach The Main Page

ejay183 · Post by **ejay183** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:20 am

I want Arrington on that field. With GW coaching him, he will be placed near the top of elite outside linebackers. I know he is replaceable, but come on, we all want him to retire another Cowboys QB.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:15 am

thecoach wrote:I just joined this group and I'm shocked that anyone thinks that players can be replaced so easily. I can't think of any players league wide that I would replace Arrington or Taylor with. Ther is a reason why high draft picks are so coveted. Athleticism, Speed and Heart = Playmaker. While the Redskins have great coaches, in the end its the players that make it happen. Usually a team of average players just won't cut the cake. Many will say look at the Patriots. The Patriots have a (Squad) of very talented fast players with heart. They have a very good scouting department. There staff has also excelled in grooming players for their time to shine. However, I can't think of one player on that Squad (defensively) that has the natural ability of Arrington or Taylor to make consistent game changing plays throughout a season. The great thing about the Redskins this coming year is that we finally can say we have a Squad to and quest who's on it.

Welcome aboard coach...I used to live there in FW.

I have to say, It great to have another homer!! But I'll also object to you saying you can't think of anyone you'd replace ST and LA With. Funny I can think of a few right off the top of my head for ST I can think of Reed,Williams and Dawkins fo LA I can think Farrior and Washington. Is it because they are more talented than ST and LA? No, it's because like Gregg Williams said at mini-camp...Playing in the NFL is as much about availibility as it is ability and accountability. These players have showed up game after game and helped their teams. I'll agree with you that they are both very talented but where are LA and ST?

gay4pacman · Post by **gay4pacman** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:05 am

LA can be replaced. Lemar Marshall can fill the void and i really don't have a huge problem with that. I would love to see him healthy but im sick of the dissapointment. Ill take a steady contributor than an unsteady and unreliable superstar.

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:30 am

ejay183 wrote:I want Arrington on that field. With GW coaching him, he will be placed near the top of elite outside linebackers. I know he is replaceable, but come on, we all want him to retire another Cowboys QB.

I'm with you 100%

How quickly people forget how good Lavar is. The offense has to look for him before each play, and if he isn't accounted for he's going to deliver a big hit on whoever has the ball. Look at the tapes people.

The guy is a beast and he's had a different coordinator every year of his career. So he's been playing mostly with instinct. Imagine how much better he'd be if Williams can consistently coach him throughout their contracts. They could have some good years together.

Besides, he's a Redskin, why give him crap? Save that for the punks that leave our team for division rivals.

This picture alone should give Arrington the benefit of doubt for the rest of his career.

The Ending of Aikman's Career

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:50 am

He has consistently underachieved. If we cut him today or traded him I wouldn't raise an eyebrow whatsoever.

thecoach · Post by **thecoach** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:58 am

Again I'm saddened. Please allow me to correct myself. Yes anyone is replaceable. Infact I should give it a try myself. While Lamar Marshall is a suitable replacement and Sean Taylor is a troubled player. Lamar Marshall is not known and probably will never be known for knocking the snot out of players. Yes Lavar is currently unavailable, but that is the nature of the game. Also, Lavar has been undisiplined at times, but how many coaches has he had. How many years has he played when he did not have anywhere close to the type of support he has now. When he returns at a 100% he will be a monster for this team. Regarding the young and troubled Sean Taylor. Young describes the situation perfectly. Anyone remember a young troubled Chris Webber with the Washington Wizards. How about a young Chris Carter? How about young troubled Randy Moss (this case is still open)? Two of the three were released or traded. All I'm saying is that its a little early to talk about replacing two of the best players on our team. When Lamar Marshall starts forcing fumbles (not picking them up)and you find another young Ronnie Lott, John Lynch, Gary Fincik to name a few. Then you can lose hope on Sean Taylor. Until then have a little patience.

I call myself the coach because of my skill of playing ESPN Football. Waiting on the new madden to come out.

Been a Redskin for a long time. Born in 66.

Scott

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:09 pm

thecoach wrote:Scott

Didn't we already exceed the quota on Scott's for this year?

Just kidding, my man. We just have ALOT of Scott's around here (myself included).

I haven't really weighed in on this issue. I think we had the number 1 defense for most of last season without LaVar, but I am of the school that talent makes things better.

LaVar has gained a reputation for freelancing, and deservedly so, but I don't recall that being a problem at the beginning of last season before he got hurt. I also don't recall that being a huge problem during his season with Coach Lewis.

I think that the success of our defense last season had a lot to do with Gregg Williams' scheme, but it takes players to carry out that scheme. I also think that the more talented the player, the better the ability to carry out that scheme.

Arrington's going to come back with a chip on his shoulder. Assuming that Williams can harness that chip and LA is willing to submit tio his responsibilities, we will only improve with Arrington in the line-up, ESPECIALLY if Barrow is able to return healthy and man the middle.

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:34 pm

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:He has consistently underachieved. If we cut him today or traded him I wouldn't raise an eyebrow whatsoever.

Underachievers make 4 out of 5 Pro Bowls huh?
Underachievers get "gameplanned" by the opponent huh?

You wouldn't raise an eyebrow if we cut/traded Arrington? His cap hit wouldn't cause your uni-brow to look like this: ^

Keep it up, you're making me laugh.

MarcusBeNimble · Post by **MarcusBeNimble** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:33 pm

I think anyone thats really followed the Redskins for sometime knows that Lavar can knock the piss out of players, but I dont think thats what anyone is really trying to argue. Fact is, one Lavar's biggest criticisms since being in the NFL was he is sometimes OVERLY aggresive, puting him in position to knock someone on their butts, but also perhaps not make the right play. Lavar is obviously gifted, but he hasnt proven enough in my mind to warrant his attitude. I hope this changes soon enough.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:59 pm

There is no doubt that Williams system is responsible for the outstanding performance of the D last year. It is also true, that in an effective system, individuals become less important than the scheme.

However, those of you calling players like Taylor and LA "replacable" forget an important point. Exceptional players turn an effective system into a monster system.

Was Marshall an effective replacement for LA? Hell yeah. But a player like Arrington must be constantly accounted for. Hits like those he can dish out have a way of playing on the head. Same is true of Taylor. Put BOTH of them into the scheme, along with a beast like Washington, and you get WR's with their heads on a swivel, and RB's taking tiny little steps. You get QB's dancing around in the pocket, never being comfortable enough to follow through.

No matter who is on the field, Williams will field an excellent D. But with the right players, that D stands for DOMONATING.

thecoach · Post by **thecoach** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:05 pm

well said countertrey.

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:17 pm

oafusp wrote:
SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:He has consistently underachieved. If we cut him today or traded him I wouldn't raise an eyebrow whatsoever.

Underachievers make 4 out of 5 Pro Bowls huh?
Underachievers get "gameplanned" by the opponent huh?

You wouldn't raise an eyebrow if we cut/traded Arrington? His cap hit wouldn't cause your uni-brow to look like this: ^

Keep it up, you're making me laugh.

For the trillionth time, making the Pro Bowl doesn't mean jack to me or to any real knowledgeable football fan.

Who votes for the Pro Bowl? Its the idiot homers that go by names (i.e. Brett FAvre, Chump Bailey, Lavar Arrington).

That fact alone proves that the crediblity factor of making the Pro Bowl doesn't mean a hill of beans to me.

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:51 pm

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:
oafusp wrote:
SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:He has consistently underachieved. If we cut him today or traded him I wouldn't raise an eyebrow whatsoever.

Underachievers make 4 out of 5 Pro Bowls huh?
Underachievers get "gameplanned" by the opponent huh?

You wouldn't raise an eyebrow if we cut/traded Arrington? His cap hit wouldn't cause your uni-brow to look like this: ^

Keep it up, you're making me laugh.

For the trillionth time, making the Pro Bowl doesn't mean jack to me or to any real knowledgeable football fan.

Who votes for the Pro Bowl? Its the idiot homers that go by names (i.e. Brett FAvre, Chump Bailey, Lavar Arrington).

That fact alone proves that the crediblity factor of making the Pro Bowl doesn't mean a hill of beans to me.

When you have a chance go back and look at what Arrington did those 4 seasons and then find 3 other NFC outside linebackers that did more or were accounted for before every snap. IMO Derrick Brooks, Julian Peterson, Arrington were tops.

sch1977 · Post by **sch1977** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:18 pm

Lemar Marshall 2004:

16 games/ 14 started 65 takles, 1 pd, 1.5 sacks

Lavar 2001:

13 games/14 started 99 takles, 9 pd, .5 sacks, 3 ints 120 yards, 1 td

This is a no brainer. If you guys think Lemar is on Arringtons level, I've got some swamp land in Arizona for sale

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:13 pm

Lemar Marshall 2004:

16 games/ 14 started 65 takles, 1 pd, 1.5 sacks

Lavar 2001:

13 games/14 started 99 takles, 9 pd, .5 sacks, 3 ints 120 yards, 1 td

This is a no brainer. If you guys think Lemar is on Arringtons level, I've got some swamp land in Arizona for sale

Game, Set and Match.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:07 pm

sch1977 wrote:Lemar Marshall 2004:

16 games/ 14 started 65 takles, 1 pd, 1.5 sacks

Lavar 2001:

13 games/14 started 99 takles, 9 pd, .5 sacks, 3 ints 120 yards, 1 td

This is a no brainer. If you guys think Lemar is on Arringtons level, I've got some swamp land in Arizona for sale

This is NOT a no brainer, how can you compare 2004 stats to 2001 stats...
The NFL is a what have you done for me lately League (that's why LA gets no press). In 2004 Lavar's stat line was ajoke

4 games/2 started 15 tackles,and 1 sack.... also how did he only play in 13 games but started 14 :?:

If you want to go back to 2001, you could look at

Warrick Holdman 16 games 16 started 107 tackles 1.5 sacks and a int

or

Marcus Washington 16 games 16 starts 93 tackles 8 sacks

The LB spot is the least of our worries weather Lavar returns or not, but if he dose our LBs will be everybodys worry