Yet another shot at the Skins...Could this have some truth?

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:14 pm

EasyMoney wrote:I can't believe any of you haters. My crusade to get LaVar's name out of the trash can has obviously fallen on deaf ears and blind eyes. First of all, Pete Prisco is the WORST NFL writer probably ever. Three or four years of the most absurd SuperBowl predictions has led me to believe this guy couldn't differentiate a SuperBowl team from a Pop Warner team. Last year it was going to be the Colts and Vikings. He believed the rule change would forever change the ultimate football cliche "defense wins championships". He was wrong... again. As for LaVar, I think I've argued his worth enough since I joined the site. I don't care to go back into again. I will only say this. DO ANY OF YOU THINK HE WOULD'VE MISSED THE PROBOWL LAST YEAR IF HE WASN'T INJURED? DO ANY OF YOU THINK HE WOULD BE ON THIS LIST IF HE MADE THE PROBOWL LAST YEAR? Nuff said.

Since when is the "pro-bowl" an indicator of a player's real worth? Didn't Chump Bailey make the Pro Bowl last year too?

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:15 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:
Fo_Block wrote: i can't believe it, an accurate assessment from a skins fan

He is not one of ours. He is one of yours disguised as one of ours. That's all.

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:18 pm

oneman56 wrote:LaVar is far from the most overrated player in the NFL, but that's for another argument. Does anyone remember how well he played in the preseason last year under Gregg Williams? I still dream about that pancake he layed on Vick and can't wait for it to happen again...and it will...THIS YEAR! Last year would've been his breakout year had it not been for the injury, LaVar will thrive in this system and make anyone with negative comments regret their words.

I keep hearing this constant dribble about practically all of our underachieving players be it Ramsey, Lavar, Cool

ey, Jansen. Either produce or shut up and get out. Bottom Line. This "next season is gonna be great, you just wait and see" bilge is getting old.

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:22 pm

Ok that is the dumbest thing I've EVER seen posted here. Did you just call Cool

ey and Jansen underachieving? I guess we know you have very little knowledge of anything football so that explains your posts being so hostile. Learn the game or take that crap elsewhere please.

oneman56 · Post by **oneman56** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:23 pm

now you thing both Cool

ey and Jansen have underachieved??? Cool

ey if anything was the biggest suprise in the draft and you watched how the offensive line played without Jansen...What are you talking about?

WshSkins22 · Post by **WshSkins22** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:24 pm

Wow, what I want to say to him is only for the smack room

Gibbs' Hog · Post by **Gibbs' Hog** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:29 pm

Posting three posts in a row with nothing but pessimistic speculation and an obvious disregard for a professional athlete's game-time stats is getting old.

Quit hovering over the fact that LaVar missed last year. He has consistently been a Pro-Bowler because HE HAS THE NUMBERS and HAS PROVED HIMSELF ALREADY in multiple years past.

How 'bout this: You argued that K2 was better than Cool

ey; and he's barely seen regular season game time. You argue that LaVar is overrated because he didn't prove himself last year, because he was injured.

...contradiction...

...contradiction...

...contr...oh well.

EasyMoney · Post by **EasyMoney** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:29 pm

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:I keep hearing this constant dribble about practically all of our underachieving players be it Ramsey, Lavar, ey, Jansen. Either produce or shut up and get out. Bottom Line. This "next season is gonna be great, you just wait and see" bilge is getting old.

And your negative dribble isn't getting old? You ask a player to produce. I tell you that this player produces more than anyone else in the league and you just disregard it? I can understand that you're unhappy about losing seasons. I can't understand your constant negativity. Are you really a Skins fan? Will you quit with the negativity next offseason if we make the post season or will you find another 5 players to hound?

EasyMoney · Post by **EasyMoney** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:37 pm

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:Since when is the "pro-bowl" an indicator of a player's real worth? Didn't Chump Bailey make the Pro Bowl last year too?

So you cite the one and only player who probably didn't deserve it? You're a piece of work dude. As much as I think Chump wasn't worthy of the probowl last year and that he made it on name recognition alone, that's what the probowl is all about. His team did make the post season. The difference between LaVar and Champ is that Champ hasn't put up the best numbers at his position since he entered the league. LaVar has. Send something else my way. I'll be more than happy to shoot that down too.

MyrtleBeachRedskin · Post by **MyrtleBeachRedskin** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:56 pm

Absolutely he is overrated. And you can not throw out a knee injury. He missed the entire year. Then missed offseason workouts and now someone was shot at his party. Let everyone not forget the contract situation. Also lets not forget that Lavar has had a history long b4 he was a Redskin of being somewhat of a loose cannon. That was one of the knocks on him at Penn State.

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:09 pm

Ok well loose cannon and bad football player and not synonymous so MBR while I love your town, I do not agree. He has issues. T.O has issues that doesn't negate the fact that he is a top level athlete, as much as I hate the man. And Riggins there's another with issues regarding more then just his behavior but there isn't a soul here who would rewrite Redskin's history and remove him from the books.

EasyMoney · Post by **EasyMoney** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:21 pm

This will be my last post in defense of LaVar. I could argue this until I'm blue in the face. Overrated is such a stupid word especially in regards to football players. According to most fans a player is worthy of league wide praise if he takes his team to the SuperBowl and wins. Ex: Ray Lewis. Ray probably puts up the best numbers year after year at his position. MLB. He did take his team to SuperBowl and they did win it once. The key word here being once. So because he's only been able to do this once does that make him overrated? He puts the best numbers up at his position but his team doesn't go to the SuperBowl and win every year. Does that make him overrated? LaVar put up the best numbers at his position for 4 years. If he would've played this year his numbers would be so much higher than any other outside linebacker in the league. What's funny is that he didn't even play this year and he STILL has better numbers than any other OLB in the league. Someone please explain to me how LaVar is overrated. I really can't put 2 and 2 together on this one.

sch1977 · Post by **sch1977** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:05 pm

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:
oneman56 wrote:LaVar is far from the most overrated player in the NFL, but that's for another argument. Does anyone remember how well he played in the preseason last year under Gregg Williams? I still dream about that pancake he layed on Vick and can't wait for it to happen again...and it will...THIS YEAR! Last year would've been his breakout year had it not been for the injury, LaVar will thrive in this system and make anyone with negative comments regret their words.

I keep hearing this constant dribble about practically all of our underachieving players be it Ramsey, Lavar, ey, Jansen. Either produce or shut up and get out. Bottom Line. This "next season is gonna be great, you just wait and see" bilge is getting old.

ey and Jansen underachieving? Man, you have been playing WAY too much Madden

MyrtleBeachRedskin · Post by **MyrtleBeachRedskin** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:06 pm

Easy how can you say he put up the best numbers at his position. I have already had this arguement with other members on this board. His numbers can be compared to the better linebackers in the league but not the best. And once again, this knee injury has been more serious than thought. It it possible that he does not have the same mobility that he used too. And yes if you miss 20% of your job you would be fired and considered over rated.

sch1977 · Post by **sch1977** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:09 pm

MyrtleBeachRedskin wrote:Easy how can you say he put up the best numbers at his position. I have already had this arguement with other members on this board. His numbers can be compared to the better linebackers in the league but not the best. And once again, this knee injury has been more serious than thought. It it possible that he does not have the same mobility that he used too. And yes if you miss 20% of your job you would be fired and considered over rated.

You act like the injury was his fault. Name an OLB who is better, just curious

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:11 pm

Actually you would not be fired. It's called disability and we all have that option at work, or at least the majority of us do. If I got carpal tunnel (only job related illness I can equate to Arrington hurting his knee) I would still collect a pay check and I would still remain employed by this place. This is no different what so ever.

sch1977 · Post by **sch1977** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:11 pm

Let me also add: If you injured yourself on the job and you get fired, there would be a lawsuit so fast it would make your head spin

EasyMoney · Post by **EasyMoney** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:17 pm

MyrtleBeachRedskin wrote:Easy how can you say he put up the best numbers at his position. I have already had this arguement with other members on this board. His numbers can be compared to the better linebackers in the league but not the best. And once again, this knee injury has been more serious than thought. It it possible that he does not have the same mobility that he used too. And yes if you miss 20% of your job you would be fired and considered over rated.

MBR, I know. Those arguments were with ME! Remember? Julian Peterson, Donnie Edwards & Marcus Washington were the closest. I already proved you wrong once. I'd rather not do it again. I can't even remember the name of that thread. I was going to dig it up and post the URL to this thread. Overrated because he was injured last year? Are you kidding me? You miss 20% of your job and you're overrated? So the greatest administrative assistant/secretary in the world would be overrated in your eyes because she had to take maternity leave? Ladies, that wasn't meant to say that women are only great secretaries! Please come up with something else. This holds no water.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:29 pm

This is really very simple. Who would you rather have this year? The presently most overrated player in the NFL or any other player at his position? C'mon now - I want Lavar and I think that anybody (except a few here that will do and say anything anti to get a response!) would agree. This is not even close.

Lavar is going to have a monster year because he can - not because he has anything to prove to anyone.

MyrtleBeachRedskin · Post by **MyrtleBeachRedskin** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:54 pm

First you proved nothing to me Easy. I matched the numbers up. I also went through only about 10 players to get those numbers. No one is going to be exactly matched up perfectly.

Second, if anyone in here thinks that if you miss a full years work that your boss does not look at you and expect you to work that much harder when you come back. You are insane. Once again, I do not think we should get rid of him. OVERRATED is definitely what I think he deserves right now.

Skinsjock I am not saying any of this to get a response. Would love to see him come out and shut me up. First and foremost I am a skins fan.

EasyMoney · Post by **EasyMoney** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:11 pm

MyrtleBeachRedskin wrote:First you proved nothing to me Easy. I matched the numbers up. I also went through only about 10 players to get those numbers. No one is going to be exactly matched up perfectly.

I didn't? I asked you to find another OUTSIDE LINEBACKER with stats comparable to LaVar's. You picked a bunch of MLB's who should have their nose in every play. I never said LaVar was a superior MLB because that's a position he doesn't play. The 3 I mentioned above were the closest and if LaVar had played this year he would be leaps and bounds ahead of these guys in numbers. I really can't prove anymore than that.

Gibbs' Hog · Post by **Gibbs' Hog** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:40 pm

MyrtleBeachRedskin wrote:Second, if anyone in here thinks that if you miss a full years work that your boss does not look at you and expect you to work that much harder when you come back. You are insane. Once again, I do not think we should get rid of him. OVERRATED is definitely what I think he deserves right now.

Let's pretend you are the best person at your job and you were injured at work. By accident.

Does it mean you weren't a top performer before the injury? No.

Does it mean you won't be a top performer after you come back? No - who knows?

Overrate \O`ver*rate"\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Overrated; p. pr.
& vb. n. Overrating.]
To rate or value too highly.

I don't really understand. We are not rating LaVar's performance during his injury. Because he DIDN'T PERFORM. How can you rate anything? And to say that he was overrated BEFORE his injury is ridiculous.

If you re-worded it, someone could make the argument for people having higher expectations of his performance - which could not even be determined until after his comeback season.

I read a post earlier in this thread that suggested LaVar is overrated. The post also said that, while he is not the best at his position, his past performances rank him among the best. How can anyone argue that he is a solid performer and puts up numbers among the best - and is still overrated?

The bottom line is that he is rated/valued for his performance - which was top-notch every year except last year, when he didn't play. What does being overrated have to do with an injury - especially since NO ONE has seen him perform since?

And what does the shooting at his house (which he had no part of, btw) have to do with his skills as a football player?

Anyone who says he is overrated because they think he won't perform after his injury is not making sense. Let's have this debate next February. One side will be then be able to tell the other side "I told you so," but at least a debate then will make sense - AFTER we see him play.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:50 pm

On this topic, in general, I agree with you, Gibbs' Hog. However, injuries should, and do, affect how a player is perceived in the NFL. In fact, injury proneness is a huge factor on guys coming out of college.

Arrington isn't a walking hazzard when it comes to injuries, but he hasn't had the same solid record that a guy like Chris Sammuels, Marcus Washington, or Randy Thomas has had.

If we start calling Arrington an allstar, we also have to take into account injuries that he's suffered over his carreer, and how prone he might be to getting more. Part of a player's value is how good of a chance a team has of seeing that player on the field for 13-16 games each season.

Not a counter-argument to what you were saying, just something else to consider. My 2 cents

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:04 pm

NikiH wrote:Ok that is the dumbest thing.

I disagree. Just read a few other of his posts. :roll:

sch1977 · Post by **sch1977** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:07 pm

MyrtleBeachRedskin wrote:First you proved nothing to me Easy. I matched the numbers up. I also went through only about 10 players to get those numbers. No one is going to be exactly matched up perfectly.

Second, if anyone in here thinks that if you miss a full years work that your boss does not look at you and expect you to work that much harder when you come back. You are insane. Once again, I do not think we should get rid of him. OVERRATED is definitely what I think he deserves right now.

Skinsjock I am not saying any of this to get a response. Would love to see him come out and shut me up. First and foremost I am a skins fan.

If you think you get injured on the job (assuming it is in the normal course of business) and you subsequently get fired, you are insane. I have never heard of anyone having to prove themselve after an injury. You act like LaVar is subpar when he plays. Are you watching the same team I am?