Top 25 Players as of right now....From "ESPN" Sean

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:55 pm

I just listened to the end of the Sean Salisbury show on ESPN and he had a list from a magazine that supposedly asked who were the top 25 players as of right now.

Of course no Redskins, not even Portis. But the first and so therefore, one might assume, best defensive player according to that "list" was James Farrior.

Before I start breaking rules and cussing out those idiot Stooler fans that voted in Farrior, Worthlessburger and even the idiot fans that voted in Tiki Barber before Portis this proves my assertion that there are a lot of stupid, ignorant, football fans that don't know anything about football. These "fans" are nothing more than card-collecting homers that don't watch games and only go by what ESPN or some other sports channell tells them.

I long for the days of true football where knowledgeable fans respected true talent like Jack Tatum, Art Monk, Kellen Winslow, Dan Fouts, et. al.

ANT7088 · Post by **ANT7088** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:38 pm

Tiki was better last year & as of "right now" he should be ahead of Portis!

He had 1518 yards rushing with 13 TDs with a 4.7 avg. & 52 catches for 578 yards with 2 TDs!

It is was it is, Tiki should be in front of Portis "right now"!

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:17 pm

this proves my assertion that there are a lot of stupid, ignorant, football fans that don't know anything about football.

uh, yeah, I guess you can say that with a certain level of accuracy!!!

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:56 pm

ANT7088 wrote:Tiki was better last year & as of "right now" he should be ahead of Portis!

He had 1518 yards rushing with 13 TDs with a 4.7 avg. & 52 catches for 578 yards with 2 TDs!

It is was it is, Tiki should be in front of Portis "right now"!

If you had to choose between the two of them for a game tomorrow, who would you choose?

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:59 pm

You can never go wrong with a good RB that's also a receiving threat.

SkinsLaVar · Post by **SkinsLaVar** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:21 pm

....yeh like Clinton Portis

ANT7088 · Post by **ANT7088** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:41 am

cvillehog wrote:
ANT7088 wrote:Tiki was better last year & as of "right now" he should be ahead of Portis!

He had 1518 yards rushing with 13 TDs with a 4.7 avg. & 52 catches for 578 yards with 2 TDs!

It is was it is, Tiki should be in front of Portis "right now"!

If you had to choose between the two of them for a game tomorrow, who would you choose?

Let's not mistake what I said! I would take Portis ANY day over Tiki! I think Portis is better then him, but like I said, Tiki did have a better season!

Tiki also had 11 runs for 50+ yards! Up until this year starts, Tiki should be ahead of Portis, but this season is around the corner & I think that will change!

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:23 am

SkinsLaVar wrote:....yeh like Clinton Portis

Umm, no. 40 is nice, but it isn't quite enough. Tomlinson, Barber, and Edge (freakin' Edge, man!) all had over 50 receptions. That's just the guys in the top ten for rushing yards. Brian Westbrook and Domanick Davis dwarfed those numbers but weren't as impressive in the total rushing yards category.

Portis is nice if that's all you can get, but there are better options out there. Tiki is one of them.

Smithian · Post by **Smithian** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:33 am

Westbrook = Went to Pro Bowl because Clinton Portis couldn't.

SkinsLaVar · Post by **SkinsLaVar** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:06 am

Wessside!!

deepthoughtlife · Post by **deepthoughtlife** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:41 am

Anyone who says that Tiki is better than Portis in any way (besides having a smaller cap charge :wink:

) either doesn't know football, or doesn't know the two players AT ALL.

Before I explain why, let's give the stats (excluding special teams).

Tiki Barber is now 30 and will be 30 throughout the season, having played for 8 years, for a grand total of 11,015 yards, 51 touchdowns, and 49 fumbles (20 lost) on 2,007 nonspecial teams touches, for a 5.488 yard per touch average, and 2.5411 touchdown percentage. 38.02% of his yardage being from catches, 23.617 % of his touches being catches. Barber averages 250.875 (exactly) touches per season. Barber averages 59.25 catches per season.

Clinton Portis is currently 23 and will turn 24 on September 1st, having played 3 years, for a grand total of 5342 yards, 39 touchdowns, and 13 fumbles (4 lost) on 1,017 nonspecial teams touches for a 5.257 yard per touch average 3.8348 touchdown percentage. 17.091% of his yardage being from catches 10.914% of his touches being catches. Portis also threw the ball twice (with one completion) for 15 of his yards, and one of his touchdowns, having no real effect on the numbers (passer rating 114.6). Portis averages 339 (exactly) touches per season. Portis has averaged 37 catches per season.

Here are some things that stand out the most comparing the two statistically, Barber fumbles just over six times a season, whereas Portis fumbles under four times per season. Barber is past his prime at thirty, while Portis is still the age of many rookies. Portis has scored a higher percentage of the time, at a higher rate of carries to catches, and higher overall touches than Barber. In an extra five years (which is nearly double Portis' entire career) of being in the league, Barber has only scored 12 more times. Barber has averaged 22.25 fore catches per season more than Portis. Portis averages 88.125 more touches per season than Barber.

On to player analysis.

Portis is one of the fastest backs in the league, can get far too impatient (sometimes not waiting long enough for slow developing plays), but has astoundingly good vision, breaks tackles incredibly well for a back of his smallish size (nearly as well as even the greatest behemoths), and when tackled always makes sure to fall forward. Can catch as well as any traditional runningback (read not Westbrook), but hasn't been asked to very often due to the downfield natures of the offenses he's played for. Still has potential to become better in nearly every aspect, but already may be the best back in the league at his extremely young age. Had a down year in Washington, but it was still one of the better performances by an RB.

Tiki Barber is an aging back who had a surprisingly good seaon instead of the decline usually expected at his age, but it is unlikely he will do so again. Famous for his fumbling woes, Tiki cut back on that problem somewhat recently with a new way of holding the ball. Tiki catches quite well, having amassed an amazing (for an RB) average of 59.25 catches per season, though some of that may be because of his team needing him desperately to catch the ball as an outlet reciever, due to bad pass protection. Tiki is a decent all around RB, with little to no untapped potential.

So as I've been saying this entire post, only the uninformed could think that Barber, an average starter who can catch, is better than Portis, an all star running back now, and for the next decade.

Btw, I do know this post is longer than some people like.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:30 am

deepthoughtlife wrote: Btw, I do know this post is longer than some people like.

Longer than the attention span of all Portis' critics. :lol:

Welcome to the board! I hope you enjoy it here.

ANT7088 · Post by **ANT7088** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:53 am

deepthoughtlife wrote:Anyone who says that Tiki is better than Portis in any way (besides having a smaller cap charge ) either doesn't know football, or doesn't know the two players AT ALL.

Before I explain why, let's give the stats (excluding special teams).

Tiki Barber is now 30 and will be 30 throughout the season, having played for 8 years, for a grand total of 11,015 yards, 51 touchdowns, and 49 fumbles (20 lost) on 2,007 nonspecial teams touches, for a 5.488 yard per touch average, and 2.5411 touchdown percentage. 38.02% of his yardage being from catches, 23.617 % of his touches being catches. Barber averages 250.875 (exactly) touches per season. Barber averages 59.25 catches per season.

Clinton Portis is currently 23 and will turn 24 on September 1st, having played 3 years, for a grand total of 5342 yards, 39 touchdowns, and 13 fumbles (4 lost) on 1,017 nonspecial teams touches for a 5.257 yard per touch average 3.8348 touchdown percentage. 17.091% of his yardage being from catches 10.914% of his touches being catches. Portis also threw the ball twice (with one completion) for 15 of his yards, and one of his touchdowns, having no real effect on the numbers (passer rating 114.6). Portis averages 339 (exactly) touches per season. Portis has averaged 37 catches per season.

Here are some things that stand out the most comparing the two statistically, Barber fumbles just over six times a season, whereas Portis fumbles under four times per season. Barber is past his prime at thirty, while Portis is still the age of many rookies. Portis has scored a higher percentage of the time, at a higher rate of carries to catches, and higher overall touches than Barber. In an extra five years (which is nearly double Portis' entire career) of being in the league, Barber has only scored 12 more times. Barber has averaged 22.25 fore catches per season more than Portis. Portis averages 88.125 more touches per season than Barber.

On to player analysis.

Portis is one of the fastest backs in the league, can get far too impatient (sometimes not waiting long enough for slow developing plays), but has astoundingly good vision, breaks tackles incredibly well for a back of his smallish size (nearly as well as even the greatest behemoths), and when tackled always makes sure to fall forward. Can catch as well as any traditional runningback (read not Westbrook), but hasn't been asked to very often due to the downfield natures of the offenses he's played for. Still has potential to become better in nearly every aspect, but already may be the best back in the league at his extremely young age. Had a down year in Washington, but it was still one of the better performances by an RB.

Tiki Barber is an aging back who had a surprisingly good seaon instead of the decline usually expected at his age, but it is unlikely he will do so again. Famous for his fumbling woes, Tiki cut back on that problem somewhat recently with a new way of holding the ball. Tiki catches quite well, having amassed an amazing (for an RB) average of 59.25 catches per season, though some of that may be because of his team needing him desperately to catch the ball as an outlet reciever, due to bad pass protection. Tiki is a decent all around RB, with little to no untapped potential.

So as I've been saying this entire post, only the uninformed could think that Barber, an average starter who can catch, is better than Portis, an all star running back now, and for the next decade.

Btw, I do know this post is longer than some people like.

Tiki still had a better 2004 & it's still to early to compare careers! Making it in this league till you're 30 is an accomplishment by itself!

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:33 am

deepthoughtlife wrote:So as I've been saying this entire post, only the uninformed could think that Barber, an average starter who can catch, is better than Portis, an all star running back now, and for the next decade.

Btw, I do know this post is longer than some people like.

Welcome to the boards dtl.
Very good first post......
The stats and comparisons that you made made were considered when they wrote the list. We consider Portis better then Barber because we look at the overall picture, while the media on lokks at the picture of Portis (in a Redskin Uni).
That Skins uniform seems to carry a 4% reduction in any performance.

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:25 pm

Smithian wrote:Westbrook = Went to Pro Bowl because Clinton Portis couldn't.

What's that got to do with him leading all RBs in receptions or Tiki being a better receiving threat than Portis?

JPM36 · Post by **JPM36** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:25 pm

Tiki went to Hawaii bc he had a better year than Portis.

Westbrook went because the NFL got some discount group rate on Eagles players.

screwgun · Post by **screwgun** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:23 am

SkinsLaVar wrote:
Wessside!!

C.P. He's the man. I'm with you SkinsLaVar!!

Punu · Post by **Punu** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:23 pm

TOP 5 BACKS

Portis
Alexander
Tomlinson
James
Holmes

All Pretty much at the same level...

Looking at the overall picture I'd say then comes (now in order)

Dillon -(consistant)
McAllister - (great Size a mobility)
Davis- (Still on the rise)
R. Johnson -(Same as Davis, much potential)
Westbrook- (great 04 Performance, really proved something)
Barber- (04 Performance will not be repeated)
Green -(Will bounce back this year...)
Martin -(too old, excellent 04 year but wont happen again)
Bettis -(over the hill, great short yardage back, great for a back up)

Backs who have something to prove in 05.

Staley - (will Bettis steal the show again?)
Chris Brown -(young and powerful)
Willis MGahee -(was 04 a one time thing? I dont think so)
Reuben Droughns (-one of 3 great backs in Clevland)
Warrick Dunn -(size and age being questioned with Duckett ther)
Fred Taylor- (injured and aged)
Nick Goings -(has to pass Foster just as soon as Davis is out)
Kevin Jones -(potential in Detroit)
Blaylock ?
Pittman ?

ejay183 · Post by **ejay183** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:58 pm

Punu wrote:TOP 5 BACKS

Portis
Alexander
Tomlinson
James
Holmes

All Pretty much at the same level...

Looking at the overall picture I'd say then comes (now in order)

Dillon -(consistant)
McAllister - (great Size a mobility)
Davis- (Still on the rise)
R. Johnson -(Same as Davis, much potential)
Westbrook- (great 04 Performance, really proved something)
Barber- (04 Performance will not be repeated)
Green -(Will bounce back this year...)
Martin -(too old, excellent 04 year but wont happen again)
Bettis -(over the hill, great short yardage back, great for a back up)

Backs who have something to prove in 05.

Staley - (will Bettis steal the show again?)
Chris Brown -(young and powerful)
Willis MGahee -(was 04 a one time thing? I dont think so)
Reuben Droughns (-one of 3 great backs in Clevland)
Warrick Dunn -(size and age being questioned with Duckett ther)
Fred Taylor- (injured and aged)
Nick Goings -(has to pass Foster just as soon as Davis is out)
Kevin Jones -(potential in Detroit)
Blaylock ?
Pittman ?

I hate runningback lists, and your list is flawed. Jamal Lewis is nowhere on the list, I know he is a Raven, but still, he is a good running back.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:22 pm

cvillehog wrote:...If you had to choose between the two of them for a game tomorrow, who would you choose?

I like this question - IMO Clinton P. gives you a lot more versatile back than Tiki. This is not about who was better, just a simple "who would you rather have - right now?"

CP = No question!

Clinton Portis · Post by **Clinton Portis** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:38 pm

SkinsLaVar wrote:
Wessside!!

Punu · Post by **Punu** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:13 pm

I hate runningback lists, and your list is flawed. Jamal Lewis is nowhere on the list, I know he is a Raven, but still, he is a good running back.

forgot about him... he would be above dillon.

and i like lists