More work for the FO to do

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:16 am

We still need at least one first class WR and receiving TE, as well as viable options on the OL. Without these components, no division title. Wildcard at best, maybe not even that if Ramsey is yanked, which Gibbs might do, and/or Samuels and Dockery play as badly as they might. I wish the FO would forget about backups at WR and CB and go for a top dog at WR and at TE. Trade excess linebackers and receivers, as well as draft choices. We go nowhere without first class receivers.

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:41 am

I hear the raiders have a great new receiver, maybe you could switch to that team? They'd probably love to have ya...

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:46 am

Scottskins wrote:I hear the raiders have a great new receiver, maybe you could switch to that team? They'd probably love to have ya...

SkinsFanInHawai'i · Post by **SkinsFanInHawai'i** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:30 am

crazyhorse1 wrote:We still need at least one first class WR and receiving TE, as well as viable options on the OL. Without these components, no division title. Wildcard at best, maybe not even that if Ramsey is yanked, which Gibbs might do, and/or Samuels and Dockery play as badly as they might. I wish the FO would forget about backups at WR and CB and go for a top dog at WR and at TE. Trade excess linebackers and receivers, as well as draft choices. We go nowhere without first class receivers.

Why have you not been hired to run the FO? We should hire you soon or some other team is go to get you. We would not want that to happen.

WshSkins22 · Post by **WshSkins22** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:11 am

Wow. This once again shows your lack of knowledge for the game of football, what have we been doing for the last 12 years crazyhorse, picking up top free agents and emptying our pockets, where has that gotten us? exactly

Fo_Block · Post by **Fo_Block** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:41 pm

WshSkins22 wrote:Wow. This once again shows your lack of knowledge for the game of football, what have we been doing for the last 12 years crazyhorse, picking up top free agents and emptying our pockets, where has that gotten us? exactly

no, this is how the skins created the mess. too many yes men agreeing with snyderbrenner and nobody with the stones to say 'the emperor has no clothes'. if you think moss/patten/jacobs compare with randy moss/porter/curry you are out of your mind. how about harrison/stokely/wayne?

EasyMoney · Post by **EasyMoney** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:45 pm

Fo_Block wrote:
WshSkins22 wrote:Wow. This once again shows your lack of knowledge for the game of football, what have we been doing for the last 12 years crazyhorse, picking up top free agents and emptying our pockets, where has that gotten us? exactly

no, this is how the skins created the mess. too many yes men agreeing with snyderbrenner and nobody with the stones to say 'the emperor has no clothes'. if you think moss/patten/jacobs compare with randy moss/porter/curry you are out of your mind. how about harrison/stokely/wayne?

How about this tandem? Branch, Patten & Givens. How many SuperBowls have the above tandems won? One player of the 9 you mentioned has won a superbowl. That one player is a Redskin.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:10 pm

Fo_Block wrote:
WshSkins22 wrote:Wow. This once again shows your lack of knowledge for the game of football, what have we been doing for the last 12 years crazyhorse, picking up top free agents and emptying our pockets, where has that gotten us? exactly

no, this is how the skins created the mess. too many yes men agreeing with snyderbrenner and nobody with the stones to say 'the emperor has no clothes'. if you think moss/patten/jacobs compare with randy moss/porter/curry you are out of your mind. how about harrison/stokely/wayne?

Forget the true trios of good WRs how about Moss/Patten/Jacobs to Coles/Gardner/Thrash. We took a step back at WR.

EasyMoney · Post by **EasyMoney** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:08 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
Fo_Block wrote:
WshSkins22 wrote:Wow. This once again shows your lack of knowledge for the game of football, what have we been doing for the last 12 years crazyhorse, picking up top free agents and emptying our pockets, where has that gotten us? exactly

no, this is how the skins created the mess. too many yes men agreeing with snyderbrenner and nobody with the stones to say 'the emperor has no clothes'. if you think moss/patten/jacobs compare with randy moss/porter/curry you are out of your mind. how about harrison/stokely/wayne?

Forget the true trios of good WRs how about Moss/Patten/Jacobs to Coles/Gardner/Thrash. We took a step back at WR.

That remains to be seen. As a ton of people have already mentioned, the season hasn't even started yet. All of us should analyze and compare this after the season. There is no point in doing it right now. At least our current crop of receivers actually want to play here...

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:20 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:We still need at least one first class WR and receiving TE, as well as viable options on the OL. Without these components, no division title. Wildcard at best, maybe not even that if Ramsey is yanked, which Gibbs might do, and/or Samuels and Dockery play as badly as they might. I wish the FO would forget about backups at WR and CB and go for a top dog at WR and at TE. Trade excess linebackers and receivers, as well as draft choices. We go nowhere without first class receivers.

We need at least 1 first class WR..... I hope you won't be the one doing the rating.
We need a blocking TE but nice try.
You almost got it right with the O... you should have posted that the OL is a viable option, WIth Jansen's return and the addition Rabach we now have two backups that were on the feild fulltime last year.
To say Gibbs may yank his starting QB before the 1st snap reminds me of something I read once (You can get a feeling that someone has no clue on a particular subject, but then they comment on that subject and it lets everyone know that they are clueless) Not calling you clueless enough attacking the poster instead of the post has gone on in this thread. Like most of your post you hit and run. You justify nothing you post, everything is negative, when someone calls you on something you don't reply.... I don't get it

Back on topic....

We've got at least 9 TE/HB on the roster how many do we need?
If we get rid of the backup WRs,CBs, and LBs who's going to play on Teams

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:06 pm

We still need at least one first class WR and receiving TE, as well as viable options on the OL. Without these components, no division title. Wildcard at best, maybe not even that if Ramsey is yanked, which Gibbs might do, and/or Samuels and Dockery play as badly as they might. I wish the FO would forget about backups at WR and CB and go for a top dog at WR and at TE. Trade excess linebackers and receivers, as well as draft choices. We go nowhere without first class receivers.

Man, is he EVER going to get a clue!!!

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:39 am

We'll see who has a clue and who doesn't when the season starts. Moss and Patten are a cut above journeymen at WR, but that's all, and Taylor's a question mark. Ramsey could be very good, as could Cool

ey, and Portis great, but the rest of the offense is iffy. After three years of castrophe its difficult to see how anyone can continue to have good thoughts about our OL, but dream on lads. Time and injury have done nothing to Jansen, Samuels, and Thomas. Why, all three of those guys will probably just turn back the clock and waltz to all pro status again. Right? And Raback's a superstar, isn't he?
Come on guys, we've got three players on offense who can put a hurt on our opponents: Ramsey, Portis, and Cool

ey. Not enough.

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:23 am

crazyhorse1 wrote:We'll see who has a clue and who doesn't when the season starts. Moss and Patten are a cut above journeymen at WR, but that's all, and Taylor's a question mark. Ramsey could be very good, as could ey, and Portis great, but the rest of the offense is iffy. After three years of castrophe its difficult to see how anyone can continue to have good thoughts about our OL, but dream on lads. Time and injury have done nothing to Jansen, Samuels, and Thomas. Why, all three of those guys will probably just turn back the clock and waltz to all pro status again. Right? And Raback's a superstar, isn't he?
Come on guys, we've got three players on offense who can put a hurt on our opponents: Ramsey, Portis, and ey. Not enough.

first of all, Jansen, Thomas and Samuels are all still fairly young. They've been in the league 5 and 6 years. They need to turn back the hands of time already? You either didn't check your facts, or you have no concept of NFL football. Rabach is not a superstar, but he is very solid. Experts agreed. He was the best center available and we got him. Cheaply too. He's definitely an upgrade over Raymer...Dockery is young and he can get better. We are in decent shape if that's as far as it goes. But fortunately for us, we also have Joe Bugel teaching these guys. That makes a huge difference. Our offensive line is going to be great. If you can't see that, it is because your simply a hater. I can totally imagine that if we went to the superbowl and lost, you would come in here and say, SEE I TOLD YOU SO, AAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!

Let's pound it into your head once again....

Joe Gibbs does NOT need superstars. His scheme, coaching and preparation are what will win. We don't need Mike Williams(who is gonna be an NFL bust anyway) and we definitely didn't need a frickin TE. The receivers we have will work out just fine with Ramsey throwing, Clinton running, this line blocking, and Joe calling the plays....

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:57 am

Scottskins wrote:I hear the raiders have a great new receiver, maybe you could switch to that team? They'd probably love to have ya...

Good one!!! :wink:

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:34 am

Here's a simple question or two: What receiver do we have that has ever required double coverage?
How many teams do we play that have no corner capable to taking on Santana one on one?
Who, besides Cool

ey, who must block, is our posession receiver?
Why is Gardner being bad mouthed when in fact he can catch over the middle and actually had--by film review-- only nine drops last year?
What conceivable justification is there in believing that Dison or McCants or Thrash is as good as Gardner?
Why are we content with a TE that caught less than 10 passes last year and whose TD's resulted from pin-point passes rather than separation.
Why do you assume Samuels can remain healthy or that Jansen can bounce back after a poor season and then a season off from injury.
Why would you assume that Thomas' journeyman season last year was caused purely by Raymer (that's a stretch)?
Why would you assume Samuels and Dockery would develop an interest in run blocking and stop jumping off-sides?

Please stop calling me a hater. I am merely trying to discuss the coming season rationally. I've been a loyal Skins fan since the time of Gene Brito and Charlie Justice.

WshSkins22 · Post by **WshSkins22** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:36 am

Hater

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:57 am

I know this has been aluded to before but those who are anti or questioning the progress the team has made do not seem to understand how bad a shape we were in. Not only has Joe started us on the road to success but it has become very evident that he is now very much in charge and is doing what he thinks will work to ensure our success.

Joe has surrounded himself with the coaches and players that he feels will help the team. He has gotten rid of some (not all) who indicated that they did not want to be here. The talent matters not to this coach - you have to have the desire that goes with the talent. This is not fantasy football but I think that Joe is getting the players here (who have the talent that suit and desire to play here) and now has had a year to "catch up" with how the current NFL works. I think you will see that in our team's success this year.

"Loyal fans" IMO should be a little positive and not be grabbing at things to try and make a case for why we are looking so bad. This is not a case of blind loyalty - Joe is one of the best ever to coach in the NFL and he deserves not only more than 1 season but the benefit of the doubt when judging the potential for our team doing well this year. This team IMO is being carefully put together for success for more than 1 season.

We were in a lot worse shape this time last year and I think a "loyal fan" should be excited about the possibilities not the unsubstantiated negatives that are proposed by some.

gay4pacman · Post by **gay4pacman** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:02 am

We need a dominate d end before we need a wr!

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:24 am

Joe (and the FO) would love to have a lot of people. I firmly beieve that they are trying to bring in whoever thay feel will help. There are a lot of factors that have to be considered and this is not fantasy football.
WE CANNOT DO ANYTHING WE WANT!

I think that from all that we can discern from the past few months that this is pretty close to our team right now with only a few changes going to happen. This is not going to be as bad a team as some are predicting and I think that Joe and the coaches seem reasonably happy with the potential for a successful season.

Less than 75 days we will be getting together in the parking lot and getting ready to begin another great season.

HTTR

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:27 pm

I am as positive about the defense as I am negative about the offense. If Taylor gets his trial postponed and Barrow is as healthy as reported, we're set to be even better than we were last year. LaVar is back, which is big news; Barrow's better than Pierce; and Carlos, if injury free, will quickly become stronger than Smoot. Further, Daniels looks healthy and our rushers off the bench (Clements in particular) could be awesome. Also, our special teams on defence could be the class of the league. We truly have a frightening, murderous bunch on D., as well as the best D coach. We have no real weakness on D and will get better, barring injury. As I've said before, we had the best D in football last year, in spite of stats that had us ranked only 3rd. The ranking was too low because the Skins had so much D time on the field due to a poor offense.
Whereas we have only 3, maybe 4 blue-chippers on offense, we have a bunch on defense: Griffin, LaVar, Barrow, Washington, Springs, Carlos, Taylor, as well as reserves with potential, excellent run stuffers, and lesser stars-- Bowen, Salavea, and Daniels.
The comparative talent levels between the offense and defense are like night and day. As far as the defense goes, we're a superbowl team. Let's work on the offense, now, quickly, while the defense is superior. If we rebuild the offense slowly, we risk not taking advantage of our current ascendency on D.
There's a time to go after quick fixes, and a time not to go after quick fixes. In the past, the Skins have gone after quick fixes when they should have built patiently. They were wrong then. However, that lesson cannot be applied to now. Now, we are in a different position. Now, we need a couple of quick fixes on offense (a top WR and a pass catching TE). That's how far we are away from a championship season.

genuswine hoglover · Post by **genuswine hoglover** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:08 pm

Crazy: How old are you? I thought I was old, but if you were a fan of Justice, who retired in '52, you must be in your 60's to remember that. If that is so, then you certainly lived thru the first Gibbs tenure. But you certainly don't talk like most people who have experienced that run. Most who have experienced it seem to have a little more faith in Gibbs than you do.

(You mention we only have a bunch of journeyman. Gibbs has won superbowls with journeyman!)

Redskins1974 · Post by **Redskins1974** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:17 pm

So, Crazyhorse1, let's roll back to the year 2000... did all those "blue chippers" help us then?

runbillo · Post by **runbillo** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:18 pm

Greetings from NYC: We probaly have the best set of wide outs in the NFC East and an improved offense line. If Joe and the FO stood pat I would be a little concerned but we did not. Last year with a few breaks we could have won 9 games. 9 games would have put us in the playoff's. Maybe we should give the Falcons 100 million dollars and Joe Gibbs to get thier tight end!

welch · Post by **welch** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:02 pm

Please stop calling me a hater. I am merely trying to discuss the coming season rationally. I've been a loyal Skins fan since the time of Gene Brito and Charlie Justice

OK. Anyone old enough to remember Choo Choo Justice is just fine in my book. And to have stuck with the team when many people pushed their TV antennas around to catch Baltimore, and started talking Colts, Colts, Colts.

[technical note: there was a time before cable. In that time we had big TV antennas on the roof. The Balitmore channels were snowy and shadowy, unless you got a fancy directional antenna.]

Me? I'm just a youngster who got a Charlie Justice inscribed uniform from Hechts on my fifth or sixth birthday.

[editing my quotes marks]

Redskins Rule · Post by **Redskins Rule** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:08 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:Please stop calling me a hater. I am merely trying to discuss the coming season rationally. I've been a loyal Skins fan since the time of Gene Brito and Charlie Justice.

Okay call me stupid or a young kid or whatever, but just who the heck are Gene Brito and Charlie Justice?

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More work for the FO to do

More work for the FO to do

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