Uh-oh....

[joebagadonuts]

anyone else catch this little tidbit? ramsey has had a 'good camp', while brunell has done 'extremely well'. i don't like the sound of it.....

On the quarterback situation and how they're progressing:
"I feel very good about our quarterbacks. I feel good about our depth. I'd say Patrick's (Ramsey) had a good camp. To me, he looks confident and looks relaxed. He's had a good command of things considering we got so much stuff in. He's obviously been in here working on it, he and Mark (Brunell). Mark's done extremely well. He's terrific as a leader. I think Jason (Campbell) obviously is in a situation, him and Bryson (Spinner), where it's been a lot of stuff, it's an overload of thing right now. Every now and then he's going the wrong way on things. We have so much in and we understand that. But also, in those practices, somewhere in there he'll flash and something will come out of there which is what you're looking for. But anyway I'm very happy about our quarterbacks. I feel good about it. I think we've had excellent work."

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=7547

[NikiH]

Don't worry Joe those of us that saw training camp last year know that Brunnell sucked yet he still started. Don't sweat it!

[joebagadonuts]

i know it. you know it. most people here know it. the important thing is that joe knows it. am i'm not convinced of that yet.

and i don't sweat. i glisten.

[Justice Hog]

Mark's done extremely well. He's terrific as a leader.

I am interpreting this statement this way: "Mark is doing extremely well as a "leader". As a QB, the boys still sucks...but as a "leader", he's doing very well."

[Gibbs' Hog]

You glisten too? I thought I was the only one!



I think this quote says it all...

Mark's done extremely well. He's terrific as a leader.

To me, that sounds like Brunell is acting like a veteran backup - spurring Ramsey on, giving advice to the QB lads, and being supportive. I doubt we will see him this season unless Ramsey gets hurt in the first few games. If he gets hurt later in the season, I get the feeling we might see a little of Cambell.

[Gibbs' Hog]

Dang Justice, you just scooped me

[SKINZ_DOMIN8]

Have any of you given thought that Brunell might....actually......probably will be our qb this upcoming season? And what if he just had a bad year and he starts throwing touchdowns and winning games for us?

I say this because you people love to give Ramsey every excuse but you bash Brunell despite the fact that not all of last year was his fault (sorry receivers, gibbs readjusting,)

Just what if Brunell does a "Rich Gannon" and leads the Redskins to wins...I bet you will all be hyping him up too.

[The Hogster]

Throwing the ball into the frickin dirt is...Brunnell's fault.

Fumbling the ball once a game is....Brunell's fault.

Missing open receivers and taking a sack is ...Burnell's fault.

Probably 90 percent of his interceptions was a bad throw,

It would be one thing if he was throwing darts, but everyone was just dropping them. That wasn't the case. He gave up points every way he could. For a time, I would just pray he didn't give the other team a score. He fumbled snaps, fumbled pass attempts and couldn't throw for more than 100 yds in a game. Brunell is done.

How in the heck can you say he "probably' will be our quarterback. Gibbs has said since last year, that Patrick is the starter...even after the draft...even during OTA's. Where in those words "Ramsey's The Starter" do you somehow get Brunnel will probably be our qb??

[Gibbs' Hog]

I'm sorry; anyone who can't throw more than 100 yds. in consecutive games has no right to be a starter.

I agree that not everything was Brunell's fault. Receivers could have been better, the O-line was pretty weak last year, and some play-calling could have been better. The thing that ticked me off more than anything last year was our time-out management.

I don't think Ramsey is our saviour, but I think he will show us some good stuff this year with our partially re-vamped offense.

The way I see it, two things could happen if we started Brunell:

1) We take the extreme risk (extreme because of his numbers last year) and start him. He pulls a Drew Brees, which would be an anomally, and gives the Skins a winning record.

Probability of Scheme 1? 20%


2) We take the extreme risk and start him. He starts 5 games and goes 2-3. Coach says, "well, we'll give him a little more time - he'll get there." Brunell starts the next 3 games and goes 0-3. Coach says, "well, we're 2-6; what should we do? Should we make Ramsey play ANOTHER partial season, only to lead our team to another 6-10 type of season?"

Probability of Scheme 2? 80%


I think it would be devastating for us to start Brunell. Not because I think he can't get the job done, but because it opens the chance for the Skins to essentially lose the first half of the season just like last year.
Edit for clarification: Gibbs wouldn't bench Brunell after 2 or 3 games. So if he plays 6, 7, 8 games with a losing record, we could lose half the year - all because someone thought Brunell might be able to "pull a Brees/Gannon."

[floridaskinsfan]

Have any of you given thought that Brunell might....actually......probably will be our qb this upcoming season? And what if he just had a bad year and he starts throwing touchdowns and winning games for us?

.........

[SKINZ_DOMIN8]

Throwing the ball into the frickin dirt is...Brunnell's fault.

Fumbling the ball once a game is....Brunell's fault.

Missing open receivers and taking a sack is ...Burnell's fault.

Probably 90 percent of his interceptions was a bad throw,

It would be one thing if he was throwing darts, but everyone was just dropping them. That wasn't the case. He gave up points every way he could. For a time, I would just pray he didn't give the other team a score. He fumbled snaps, fumbled pass attempts and couldn't throw for more than 100 yds in a game. Brunell is done.

Oh really?? So Ramsey not being able to throw a deep ball wasn't his fault or his stupid-bad-timing interceptions weren't his fault either?

You make my point for me. All the Ramsey-ites love giving him every excuse they can but bash Brunell for competing.

[SKINZ_DOMIN8]

I'm sorry; anyone who can't throw more than 100 yds. in consecutive games has no right to be a starter.

I agree that not everything was Brunell's fault. Receivers could have been better, the O-line was pretty weak last year, and some play-calling could have been better. The thing that ticked me off more than anything last year was our time-out management.

I don't think Ramsey is our saviour, but I think he will show us some good stuff this year with our partially re-vamped offense.

The way I see it, two things could happen if we started Brunell:

1) We take the extreme risk (extreme because of his numbers last year) and start him. He pulls a Drew Brees, which would be an anomally, and gives the Skins a winning record.

Probability of Scheme 1? 20%


2) We take the extreme risk and start him. He starts 5 games and goes 2-3. Coach says, "well, we'll give him a little more time - he'll get there." Brunell starts the next 3 games and goes 0-3. Coach says, "well, we're 2-6; what should we do? Should we make Ramsey play ANOTHER partial season, only to lead our team to another 6-10 type of season?"

Probability of Scheme 2? 80%


I think it would be devastating for us to start Brunell. Not because I think he can't get the job done, but because it opens the chance for the Skins to essentially lose the first half of the season just like last year.
Edit for clarification: Gibbs wouldn't bench Brunell after 2 or 3 games. So if he plays 6, 7, 8 games with a losing record, we could lose half the year - all because someone thought Brunell might be able to "pull a Brees/Gannon."

I agree with your overall premise but it doesn't matter whether its Ramsey or Brunell; all that matters is that whomever is starting wins games.

I see a very likely scenario where neither Ramsey and/or Brunell will be here next year so I personally hope to see Campbell at some point--after all he is Gibbs' choice.

[Gibbs' Hog]

Oh really?? So Ramsey not being able to throw a deep ball wasn't his fault or his stupid-bad-timing interceptions weren't his fault either?

You make my point for me. All the Ramsey-ites love giving him every excuse they can but bash Brunell for competing.

I just don't understand this. All you talk about are the "Ramsey-lovers" , and how we blindly support Ramsey and bash Brunell.

What about you? You are obviously a "Brunell-lover" who only wants to bash Ramsey. You call people out to prove why Ramsey will be successful. Turn it around. Why should we start Brunell? Because of a 'hunch' you have that he might all of a sudden stun everybody with his amazing skills? He was good in the past. He is a good leader with experience that can teach our other QBs. But he crapped out all over the field last year, and that doesn't warrant a starting role, IMO, regardless of his salary and career statistics.

[floridaskinsfan]

.....

but seriously, we saw Gibbs stick with his man last year until it got really ugly. Expect him staying with Ramsey for the long haul. It was not all Brunell's fault last year but Ramsey, Matthews, Banks, Shuler, etc. would have played better-IMO.
(notice I didn't put Wuerffel in there)

[SKINZ_DOMIN8]

Oh really?? So Ramsey not being able to throw a deep ball wasn't his fault or his stupid-bad-timing interceptions weren't his fault either?

You make my point for me. All the Ramsey-ites love giving him every excuse they can but bash Brunell for competing.

I just don't understand this. All you talk about are the "Ramsey-lovers" , and how we blindly support Ramsey and bash Brunell.

What about you? You are obviously a "Brunell-lover" who only wants to bash Ramsey. You call people out to prove why Ramsey will be successful. Turn it around. Why should we start Brunell? Because of a 'hunch' you have that he might all of a sudden stun everybody with his amazing skills? He was good in the past. He is a good leader with experience that can teach our other QBs. But he crapped out all over the field last year, and that doesn't warrant a starting role, IMO, regardless of his salary and career statistics.

I would take Brunell on his worst day than an unproven Ramsey at this point. You admit Brunell is a good leader and has experience. That's all that needs to be said. I really don't think you people get it when Gibbs himself said that "we haven't seen the last of Brunell." Which tells me he will indeed play this upcoming season. So we had all better get used to it.

[joebagadonuts]

i think that most 'ramsey-lovers' here are simply saying that he deserves a fair shake at the job. if he plays crappy this year, i think you'll see most people here calling for campbell or someone else.

i also think that most 'brunnel-haters' feel that mark had his chance last year, and that while the offensive (!) shortcomings weren't all his fault, he certainly did his fair share.

[hatsOFF2gibbs]

Have any of you given thought that Brunell might....actually......probably will be our qb this upcoming season? And what if he just had a bad year and he starts throwing touchdowns and winning games for us?

I say this because you people love to give Ramsey every excuse but you bash Brunell despite the fact that not all of last year was his fault (sorry receivers, gibbs readjusting,)

Just what if Brunell does a "Rich Gannon" and leads the Redskins to wins...I bet you will all be hyping him up too.

If that happens, I'll run naked around the parking lot in Ashburn during training camp.
I doubt it'll be a pretty site.

[SkinsJock]

I think Patrick is going to have a very good year and that he will be with us next year even if he has a great year. I will even go further and say that IMO Patrick is not here only if he shows he is not good enough.

I also think that Mark will show why he was selected by Joe and why he was so highly thought of by some other football people (not many I'd admit, but "some"!!) I think he will be a very good mentor for both Patrick and JC. I hope he wins some games for us IF he has to replace Patrick. Hopefully he will just be a very good back up for 2005 because he will not be here in 2006.

There is no way that JC gets to start a game in 2005 and may not even play. This kid will be "coached up" by Joe and gets ready to be our backup next year, maybe. But nothing will happen for him except learning this year.

I do not consider myself a Ramsey "lover" or Brunell "hater" because he (MB) was so bad last year. I just want "our" QB to be a very good QB!

I was just disapointed in both quartebacks actually and hope to see a better performance from both this year. I also think the line play will be a big improvement and we should see more "creative" play calling by Joe that suits our players and not that "stuff" we saw last year.

[Gibbs' Hog]

YOU'VE BEEN HAD

Okay, first you say this (among other things in that thread):

Better? What are you smoking?

Kellen Winslow played lights out while at Miami (in a real conference).

I'm tired of these "Cooley" fans hyping him up as if he is the next Bavaro or Christiensen.

By the way, how sad is it that our leading touchdown receiver was an "H-Back"???? That just shows you how incompetent our receivers/passing game was last year.

Hopefully, Gibbs will keep him in to block a lot more and let our small but speedy receivers go deep.]

http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13526&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40


Then, you say this:

I would take Brunell on his worst day than an unproven Ramsey at this point. You admit Brunell is a good leader and has experience. That's all that needs to be said. I really don't think you people get it when Gibbs himself said that "we haven't seen the last of Brunell." Which tells me he will indeed play this upcoming season. So we had all better get used to it.

So you would take an unproven K2; but you refuse to take a so-called "unproven" Ramsey (who has actually PLAYED and WON GAMES in the NFL)???

Make up your mind man! Do players have to prove something in the league? Do college stats matter more, or less, than NFL stats? Does a guy who throws for 58 yards in a game deserve to lead a professional football team?

There's so many inconsitencies in these posts, I don't know what to think.

[hatsOFF2gibbs]

Be careful when Gibbs' Hog is around..he'll catch ya! Just hang your head in shame and admit you got caught.

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

Speaking about "getting caught".

Have any of you given thought that Brunell might....actually......probably will be our qb this upcoming season? And what if he just had a bad year and he starts throwing touchdowns and winning games for us?

I say this because you people love to give Ramsey every excuse but you bash Brunell despite the fact that not all of last year was his fault (sorry receivers, gibbs readjusting,)

Just what if Brunell does a "Rich Gannon" and leads the Redskins to wins...I bet you will all be hyping him up too.

If that happens, I'll run naked around the parking lot in Ashburn during training camp.
I doubt it'll be a pretty site.

Would that be out of excitement that your favorite QB gets to start? I ask because your sig line never makes it clear who you want as the starter.

Now that we got a QB in the 1st, we have to make sure Brunell is not the back up.

Might you REEEEALLY be rootin' Mark to regain HIS spot as the starter? You obviously don't want him to be the "backup"...

but, are you "loving ramsey" but have a secret desire to see Brunell succeed???

Gibbs' Hog ain't the only "investigatory" hog on the boards.

I'm watching you...

[hatsOFF2gibbs]

You're overthinking it Redeemed. I want Ramsey to start and Campbell to be the back up. If you read the rest of my signature, it does say "Go Campbell go!"
You might be able to catch me....but not that easily.
BTW, I'd be running around the parking lot in protest of Brunell getting the nod.

[SkinsChic]

Mark's done extremely well. He's terrific as a leader.

I am interpreting this statement this way: "Mark is doing extremely well as a "leader". As a QB, the boys still sucks...but as a "leader", he's doing very well."

That's a great perspective Justice !!

[skinsfan#33]

quote]

I would take Brunell on his worst day than an unproven Ramsey at this point. You admit Brunell is a good leader and has experience. That's all that needs to be said. I really don't think you people get it when Gibbs himself said that "we haven't seen the last of Brunell." Which tells me he will indeed play this upcoming season. So we had all better get used to it.[/quote]

COME ON!!! Do you really believe that we didn't see plenty of Brunell's worst days last year. Brunell hasn't turned in a good season in over five years and the most TDs he has ever thrown in a season was something like 19. That was when he was a fringe Pro Bowl player.

He was replace buy an unproven QB (Leftwitch) two years ago and the Jags improved. He was replaced by (according to you) an unproven Ramsey last year and the Skins improved.

SEE A TREND!!!

Brunell turned in the worst performance of any QB in the league last year and that is saying a lot with Kyle Boler right up I-95!

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

COME ON!!! Do you really believe that we didn't see plenty of Brunell's worst days last year.

See, there's always the hope that those WERE his worst days. If he outplays Ramsey in camp AGAIN, and Joe decides to start him AGAIN, would you completely stop rooting for the team because he earned the spot?

If the slightest chance exists that this proven vet can lead us to 10-12 wins, wouldn't you want that?

Of course, Ramsey might be able to do the same, which is a great thing. That would mean we we have 2 capable QBs, with a third in development. Go Bryson Spinner!!!:up: