Time For Portis to Shut Up!

stwasm · Post by **stwasm** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:20 am

ESPN's Sports Guy's World quotes Clinton Portis as saying this about Santana Moss and his not showing up at camp:

"Nothing happens today ain't going to affect July, August, September. Santana (Moss) calls me every day: 'Man, what y'all do today?' I'm like: 'Man, we ain't did nothing. We're doing the same thing you're doing in Miami, running and working out. You ain't missed nothing.'"

His running his mouth is undermining Gibbs' authority. It's just another example of the dysfunction and chaos plauging this organization. No wonder we're a laughing stock! Portis is now on my list, joining his Miami-mates!

hatsOFF2gibbs · Post by **hatsOFF2gibbs** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:14 am

I don't think we should over-react about this. To start off, do you have a link?

Portis is supposed to be very interested in the Redskins. Remember, JGibbs DID say that he got several calls from him in the past because he wanted to know what was going on with his team while he was on vacation. He may be saying things like that but it seems like he's a hard worker.
Even though I like him right now, I wouldn't be surprised if he asks for a trade after next season or after two years!

skins81 · Post by **skins81** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:43 am

There was already a 4 page thread on this article.

http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12600

I honestly feel it was a case of the media making Portis look like an idiot. Read the article and the thread.

Portis has embraced the leadership role that comes with the huge contract he signed.

I am very happy with the fact that Portis wants to earn his pay, his respect, and his future place in the hall of fame. Remember, Portis is here working out, not in Miami.

stwasm · Post by **stwasm** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:37 am

Well and good. But, it still doesn't excuse Moss and Taylor skipping the camp while ALL of their teammates are participating. What, they're too good for it all. Gibbs already has expressed disappointment, then Portis comes out and says, "you're not missing anything." That's ridiculous! I guess Moss is in Miami working on his timing with Patrick Ramsey? I guess Taylor is in Miami trying to learn from his mistakes from last year -- including his blown coverage in the second Cowboys' game in Dallas that led to the game-winning touchdown? C'mon!

spudstr04 · Post by **spudstr04** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:54 am

Here's a good quote from Portis:

QUOTE TO NOTE
"Coach asked me to be here, and I'm trying to take on that team leadership role. I'm here. There are sacrifices I've got to make. I would love to be in the Bahamas or Jamaica, but I'm not. I'm here with y'all." -- RB Clinton Portis on participating on the offseason workout program.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:59 am

I honestly feel it was a case of the media making Portis look like an idiot. Read the article and the thread.

Portis has embraced the leadership role that comes with the huge contract he signed.

I am very happy with the fact that Portis wants to earn his pay, his respect, and his future place in the hall of fame. Remember, Portis is here working out, not in Miami.

But he's also undermining JG with his comments. If hewants to be a LEADER he makes sure his teammates get in and have as much time working with the coaches as possible. Taylor has had one year with us. Moss hasn't had any. These guys need to be here working out, meeting with coaches, getting to know their teammates better, etc...

A leader doesn't undermine his coach by saying its ok for them to skip these workouts when the coach has clearly said its important for everyone to be here and every Redskin but those 2 are working out here in Redskins Park.

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:47 am

stwasm wrote:Well and good. But, it still doesn't excuse Moss and Taylor skipping the camp while ALL of their teammates are participating. What, they're too good for it all. Gibbs already has expressed disappointment, then Portis comes out and says, "you're not missing anything." That's ridiculous! I guess Moss is in Miami working on his timing with Patrick Ramsey? I guess Taylor is in Miami trying to learn from his mistakes from last year -- including his blown coverage in the second Cowboys' game in Dallas that led to the game-winning touchdown? C'mon!

These are VOLUNTARY camps. The players do NOT have to work out with their teams contrary to popular belief. If this were training camp then it would be a different story. Till then this is just a bunch of bunk. Besides which, all indications are that they are actually training HARDER in Miami than they are here so I am not worried one iota.

stwasm · Post by **stwasm** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:58 pm

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:
stwasm wrote:Well and good. But, it still doesn't excuse Moss and Taylor skipping the camp while ALL of their teammates are participating. What, they're too good for it all. Gibbs already has expressed disappointment, then Portis comes out and says, "you're not missing anything." That's ridiculous! I guess Moss is in Miami working on his timing with Patrick Ramsey? I guess Taylor is in Miami trying to learn from his mistakes from last year -- including his blown coverage in the second Cowboys' game in Dallas that led to the game-winning touchdown? C'mon!

These are VOLUNTARY camps. The players do NOT have to work out with their teams contrary to popular belief. If this were training camp then it would be a different story. Till then this is just a bunch of bunk. Besides which, all indications are that they are actually training HARDER in Miami than they are here so I am not worried one iota.

VOLUNTARY with a nudge-nudge, wink-wink. While this is a VOLUNTARY camp, how do you explain the fact that those two idiots are the only ones NOT participating? Voluntary is understood to mean, "Get your you-know-what in here!" Whether or not they're training HARDER is irrelevant. Moss is with a new team. Logic would seem to dictate, "Hey! Maybe I should meet my quarterback and try to get confortable with him, as well as learn the new playbook, as soon as possible." Logic would seem to dictate, "Maybe I should see what the veterans are doing and try to learn from them so I can be even stronger my second season." These two are thinking about themselves first and the team second, and that's going to cost us down the road!

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:10 pm

I was going to respond to skinzdomin8 until I read this

VOLUNTARY with a nudge-nudge, wink-wink. While this is a VOLUNTARY camp, how do you explain the fact that those two idiots are the only ones NOT participating? Voluntary is understood to mean, "Get your you-know-what in here!" Whether or not they're training HARDER is irrelevant. Moss is with a new team. Logic would seem to dictate, "Hey! Maybe I should meet my quarterback and try to get confortable with him, as well as learn the new playbook, as soon as possible." Logic would seem to dictate, "Maybe I should see what the veterans are doing and try to learn from them so I can be even stronger my second season." These two are thinking about themselves first and the team second, and that's going to cost us down the road!

Basically what I was going to say so I'll just add that I agree.

skins81 · Post by **skins81** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:13 pm

thaiphoon wrote:A leader doesn't undermine his coach by saying its ok for them to skip these workouts

Don't put words in the man's mouth.

He never said that.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:53 pm

thaiphoon wrote:
A leader doesn't undermine his coach by saying its ok for them to skip these workouts

Don't put words in the man's mouth.

He never said that.

Ok lets see what he said shall we ??

"I think Sean's going to come back high-intensity.Just let him go out and have fun, as long as he's not getting in trouble."

Sounds like he's giving the ok here doesn't it ??

"Nothing happens today ain't going to affect July, August, September," Portis said. "Santana calls me every day: 'Man, what y'all do today?' I'm like: 'Man, we ain't did nothing. We're doing the same thing you're doing in Miami, running and working out. You ain't missed nothing.' "

Again, telling the players who might be worried they are missing out that its ok and they aren't missing anything is the same as saying its ok to skip the workouts.

I don't need to put words in his mouth, what he said will suffice to make my case.

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:05 pm

thaiphoon wrote:I was going to respond to skinzdomin8 until I read this

VOLUNTARY with a nudge-nudge, wink-wink. While this is a VOLUNTARY camp, how do you explain the fact that those two idiots are the only ones NOT participating? Voluntary is understood to mean, "Get your you-know-what in here!" Whether or not they're training HARDER is irrelevant. Moss is with a new team. Logic would seem to dictate, "Hey! Maybe I should meet my quarterback and try to get confortable with him, as well as learn the new playbook, as soon as possible." Logic would seem to dictate, "Maybe I should see what the veterans are doing and try to learn from them so I can be even stronger my second season." These two are thinking about themselves first and the team second, and that's going to cost us down the road!

Basically what I was going to say so I'll just add that I agree.

same here. they are only "voluntary" because the NFL has a rule that they can't be mandatory. it doesn't matter how hard you are working out, you need to establish chemistry with your teammates, especially your QB if you are a WR. work on timing and and routes and such. i know ramsey has a great arm but he can't throw it all the way to miami!

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:23 pm

Voluntary does not mean mandatory. I bet most credible dictionaries would agree with me.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:34 pm

Voluntary does not mean mandatory. I bet most credible dictionaries would agree with me.

When you're new and the boss says that the meet and greet of the CEO and the rest of the bigwigs of the company is "voluntary" and not "mandatory", do you show up and possibly help yourself or do you skip it since you weren't "required".

When you're new to any job you have to go above and beyond.

Yes they have different definitions ... but we're not having a grammar test or a spelling bee here. We're trying to win football games and team chemistry, timing, etc... are important elements to accomplishing that goal. Being a prima-donna and saying basically "I don't want to worj out with my teammates" creates some distance between those players and the rest of the players who actually DO show up.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:59 pm

Sometimes things are phrased in a "Question" form but they are really statements. Like, "Do you want to take out the trash" as my wife says. She's not asking. She's telling me i forgot to take the trash out.

Gibbs made it real clear that if players arn't there then they are making a statement to the team about where there priorities are. Even if he's working out down there he could be doing it up here with his team. Just as others have eluded in other forums, he hasnt been with the team that long and the more they work together, the better they will get to know each others work habits.

Also, he could work with our recievers to help them since he's so good. He could use some pass coverage work. If you remember the Dallas game he bit hard on a pump fake.

I just think him being at Redskins Park working out with the skins helps both sides of the ball.

skins81 · Post by **skins81** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:20 pm

thaiphoon wrote:
thaiphoon wrote:
A leader doesn't undermine his coach by saying its ok for them to skip these workouts

Don't put words in the man's mouth.

He never said that.

Ok lets see what he said shall we ??

"I think Sean's going to come back high-intensity.Just let him go out and have fun, as long as he's not getting in trouble."

Sounds like he's giving the ok here doesn't it ??
"Nothing happens today ain't going to affect July, August, September," Portis said. "Santana calls me every day: 'Man, what y'all do today?' I'm like: 'Man, we ain't did nothing. We're doing the same thing you're doing in Miami, running and working out. You ain't missed nothing.' "

Again, telling the players who might be worried they are missing out that its ok and they aren't missing anything is the same as saying its ok to skip the workouts.

I don't need to put words in his mouth, what he said will suffice to make my case.

If you want to take two sentences and claim that it is tacit agreement that it is ok for players to miss voluntary workouts, be my guest.

The interview could have had a completely different flavour.
The press is going to make a story, with you or without you. Portis was burned. The story makes it look like he agrees with the decision to go to Miami, but it simply cannot be. If he really felt that way, he would be in Miami as well. He's here. He's working out. He knows how important it is because it is reflected in his actions.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:44 pm

If you want to take two sentences and claim that it is tacit agreement that it is ok for players to miss voluntary workouts, be my guest.

Thank you !! Since after all , he did use those words and I put nothing in his mouth.

Portis was burned.

By his own statements ... gee a U.of Miami alum running his mouth too much ... what are the chances ???

The story makes it look like he agrees with the decision to go to Miami, but it simply cannot be.

Actually, re-read his words again and you'll see that it CAN be.

If he really felt that way, he would be in Miami as well.He's here. He's working out. He knows how important it is because it is reflected in his actions.

He said it was because he wanted to take on more of a leadership role. And if he knew how important it is to be there, then why is he excusing his fellow Miami alums ??

skins81 · Post by **skins81** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:47 pm

thaiphoon wrote:
If you want to take two sentences and claim that it is tacit agreement that it is ok for players to miss voluntary workouts, be my guest.

Thank you !! Since after all , he did use those words and I put nothing in his mouth.

Portis was burned.

By his own statements ... gee a U.of Miami alum running his mouth too much ... what are the chances ???

The story makes it look like he agrees with the decision to go to Miami, but it simply cannot be.

Actually, re-read his words again and you'll see that it CAN be.

If he really felt that way, he would be in Miami as well.He's here. He's working out. He knows how important it is because it is reflected in his actions.

He said it was because he wanted to take on more of a leadership role. And if he knew how important it is to be there, then why is he excusing his fellow Miami alums ??

The offseason is the time to make mountains out of molehills.

You seem to think his statements are inflammatory and divisive. I do not.

What you did was take my post and break it up line by line.

Out of context, it sounds a little different, right? And I only wrote several sentences. Without my statement about the media, it sounds a little different. That is what can happen in an interview. And I think that's what happened to Portis.

You managed to illustrate my point exactly.
You used the same methods a reporter would use.

The Portis statements are a non issue.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:57 pm

What you did was take my post and break it up line by line.

Yes and I accurately quoted you.

Out of context, it sounds a little different, right?

Actually it was in context. Your assessment that Portis was burned by the media was accurately quoted.

And I only wrote several sentences. Without my statement about the media, it sounds a little different.

Actually it doesn't. It still sounds like you excusing Portis' remarks.

That is what can happen in an interview. And I think that's what happened to Portis.

But you don't know

You managed to illustrate my point exactly.
You used the same methods a reporter would use.

Actually I illustrated my point in that I didn't put words in either Portis' or your mouth. You both were accurately quoted and your statment was accurately reflected in my previous post.

The Portis statements are a non issue.

Only to those who seek to excuse players who undermine the coach's desire to form a team-first culture in the franchise.

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:48 am

thaiphoon, stop arguing semantics. All he is saying is that reporters twist the truth, especially football reporters it seems these days.

This interveiw could have happened before Portis realized Gibbs wanted every single player at the volunatary workouts. Or mebbe he just said it without realizing that it was contradicting Gibbs. What Portis said is of no consequence. Portis is a good guy. He's a hard worker, great RB, and a total team guy. Gibbs loves him, so he can't be a bad apple.

Moss is waiting for an extension. I assume it was part of the deal that he would receive an extension when he came here. He's in Miami working out and working on his extension. Jansen said during last weeks draft that he expects Santana in, in a week or two. Good enough for me.

Taylor on the other hand, is not ok with me. He signed a contract last year. It's incentive laden and he's gonna have to live with it. He can make a whole lot of money for a safety. He's good enough, he SHOULD reach most of the incentives. What's the problem? Even if his contract was crap, which it isn't, he signed it, so he's gonna have to honor it.

If I was Snyder,

Sean, we want you in camp. We aren't going to give you a new contract. We already gave you a good contract and you signed it. You have two choices. Come in, or stay in Miami. The ball is in your court. Every day of camp(not workouts) that you miss will cost you one game. Hope we see you soon....

The Danny

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:04 pm

This interveiw could have happened before Portis realized Gibbs wanted every single player at the volunatary workouts. Or mebbe he just said it without realizing that it was contradicting Gibbs. What Portis said is of no consequence. Portis is a good guy. He's a hard worker, great RB, and a total team guy. Gibbs loves him, so he can't be a bad apple.

My point is not that he's a bad guy. Its that a player who wants to be a team leader should watch what he says to the media. His statements, while he may not have meant any harm, do undermine the coach's statement about the workouts.

Moss is waiting for an extension. I assume it was part of the deal that he would receive an extension when he came here. He's in Miami working out and working on his extension. Jansen said during last weeks draft that he expects Santana in, in a week or two. Good enough for me.

I understand the business part of the game. I really do. But if I was a WR who hadn't really had a great year in my young career and was disgruntled with my former employers so much that they traded me away, I'd want to prove to my new employers that I'm worth every penny and show some good faith to my new team by showing up to all workouts instead of "I'm not doing a damned thing until you show me the money" (to use a god awful Jerry MaGuire reference).

We agree about Taylor though.

Sean, we want you in camp. We aren't going to give you a new contract. We already gave you a good contract and you signed it. You have two choices. Come in, or stay in Miami. The ball is in your court. Every day of camp(not workouts) that you miss will cost you one game. Hope we see you soon....

The Danny

Classic !!! I like it !!!