A good draft

[ii7-V7]

Despite what many redskins "faithful" have said on this board lately, I think that this was a good draft for us. Joe Gibbs showed that he is more concerned about building for the future than getting "win now superstars." Drafting Mike Williams and Heath Miller would have been exactly what Redskin fans, and owners, would have wanted. It would have been the kind of win now mentality that would have left us in a lurch next year when Patrick Ramsey most likely will be out of our financial grasp.

Despite what the talking heads say about Gibbs wanting to win now and then get out, he showed this weekend that he is more concerned about getting this franchise to be a future contender. Joe Gibbs is looking long-term...even if his fans are not.

Unlike past drafts when the skins have went for big named guys and used the draft to fill positions of need, Joe drafted the best talent, and person, that he thought was available. Thats why we ended up with two military guys and two FB/RB's.

There were certainly some head scratchers in this draft. Such as, why we didn't use a single pick on either line. Such as why we picked FB's when Joe doesn't use fullbacks. But Joe has showed that he is sticking with what he knows works, good special teams and a good ground game. Could the addition of two FB's mean that Joe is changing his offensive philosophy? I doubt it, but it could be that he expects to use FB's more often. Or it could be that he is looking to convert on of the guys into a TE/H-back? Most likely he is just looking for a big power back to compliment that shifty speedster CLinton Portis

Once again Joe gave Gregg the first pick of the draft and chose a guy who very well may end up the best CB in this draft class. With Springs, Taylor, Bowen and now Carlos Rogers in the back field Williams will be able to send the house on every down. With increased depth and talent in the back seven Gregg Williams will have plenty to work with.

I beleive that this is the year that Gibbs shows what it means to build a team of lunch pail players who will work hard for a common goal. The Redskins faithful should be prepared to get better and better results from less and less exciting offseasons!

Chad

P.S. I just found this article which says a lot of the same things that I feel. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2005Apr23.html

[The Hogster]

I couldn't have said it better. When we have made the moves that are fan friendly, they turn out to be poor decisions.

Gerald Riggs was a fullback and we used him in the third Championship run. Gibbs is getting his type guys. Im proud to be an Army guy and I can tell you man, those guys will work hard, pay attention to detail, respect authority, be extremely disciplined, and will be responsible and accountable for their assignments and their teamates assignments.

We are building a great, blue collar roster that will get the job done. Gibbs is committed to punishing the Defense with a bruising ground game.

Gibbs uses 2 and 3 receiver sets. With Moss, Patten, Jacobs, Thrash and McCants....we really didn't need another reciever. We just need to execute our passing game, and when we dominate the ground game, we will do just that.

[ii7-V7]

Hua! You are right we don't need more talent at WR. We just need the guys that we have now to step up and live up to thier expectations....I'm talking about you Taylor Jacobs!

[MEZZSKIN]

I totally agree guys....We just drafted a bunch hard working nalis tough players...do any of you guys remember REGGIE BRANCH??...fullback mid 80's..never played one down...But he was one of the best redskin specail teams players ever....Im sure gibbs remembers him

[vife]

Great post. I think that it's about time the owners start thinking about what they want to do but to think about what they should do.

gibbs is finally taking some control. and i think the players with great character will alwyas perform better on a TEAM than those who think they're all that, aka arrington.

[tcwest10]

I couldn't have said it better. When we have made the moves that are fan friendly, they turn out to be poor decisions.

Gerald Riggs was a fullback and we used him in the third Championship run. Gibbs is getting his type guys. Im proud to be an Army guy and I can tell you man, those guys will work hard, pay attention to detail, respect authority, be extremely disciplined, and will be responsible and accountable for their assignments and their teamates assignments.

We are building a great, blue collar roster that will get the job done. Gibbs is committed to punishing the Defense with a bruising ground game.

Gibbs uses 2 and 3 receiver sets. With Moss, Patten, Jacobs, Thrash and McCants....we really didn't need another reciever. We just need to execute our passing game, and when we dominate the ground game, we will do just that.

I may have been wrong about the Hogster. This is a sweet post.

[The Hogster]

Appreciate it. I learned a bit myself from the smack debacle.

[ejay183]

Great points, but all negative remarks will be forgotten with a better record, so lets hope for that, with our newest Skins.

[John Manfreda]

This was a good draft for us. If your a Cowboys and Eagles fan. Oh yeah Giants. There esstatic about our draft. What Gibbs was dummer (by light years) than what the Giants did last draft.

[WshSkins22]

man shut the hell up your so annoying

[Redskins4Life]

Nice Post Dukes! I was real upset when we passed up Williams but now in hindsight I'm starting to think it wasn't too bad of a move

[The Hogster]

This was a good draft for us. If your a Cowboys and Eagles fan. Oh yeah Giants. There esstatic about our draft. What Gibbs was dummer (by light years) than what the Giants did last draft.

Oh yeah? Everyone who wants to judge the draft right after it is over comes out looking like a complete jackal.

You mention the Cowboys...no one had Julius Jones going in the 1st round...Parcells passed on Steven Jackson and took Jones...people like you cried and moaned, and look...after watching him play it is clear that he fits with what they are doing.

Eagles? Yeah..their fans who are like you BOOED when they chose Donovan McNabb.

Giants? C'mon, they traded their future to get Eli Manning because he cried about a trade. While we can't judge that trade quite yet...the Chargers look like Geniuses, and if Eli doesn't keep improving, the Giants look like idiots.

In fact what the Chargers did is what Gibbs has just done. They lit a fire under their starter. If he steps up and plays flawlessly and leads us to the playoffs..we win. If he struggles, then we have a viable alternative in Campbell. Who else would we have went to? We all agree that Brunell is terrible, and these moves show that Gibbs understands that. In fact, if he didn't take a QB, and Ramsey went down or was not improving, then what? Hasslebeck or suffer through another season with Boonell...that doesn't improve your team.

Look man...everyone was puzzled about the Mike Williams thing, but sanity takes over after a day or so. At this point you are just whining and complaining, and no one wants to hear your cynicism especially when you make such pre mature, and unfounded posts. Did you ever think that hey, no one predicted Mike Williams would be available at 9. Hmm Romeo Crennel, Lovie Smith, Mike Tice, and even NORM CHOW...WILIAMS OWN FORMER O-COORDINATOR passed on him. Maybe the football minds saw something that you don't.

Okay...im done.

[learnnew]

I gave a grade of C+ for our draft in my earlier post. Now I can see where you guys are coming from. I agree that Carlos Rogers was easily the best pick for us. Most of you guys are seeing the best-case scenarios about the rest. I'm not saying we did too bad but I'm not quite convinced either. Campbell pick is a mystery - for a 3rd round pick this year, a 1st and 4th round next year. That's too much guys. Even if we win the Super bowl next season, unless Campbell turns out to be a Tom Brady, I'd say we overpaid for him. Like it or not, we're stuck with Ramsey for at least 2 more seasons. So ...

BTW, I'm proud to call myself faithful. I'd like nothing more than eat my words about Campbell and take back my C+. But we gotta wait for that.

Also, regarding the WRs, I believe we won't see the 2 WR set as much as we did last season. Every time Gibbs talks about changes, he seems to be harping on defenses overloading the box. I believe he'll spread the offense a lot more to counter this. We can talk as much as we want about execution of plays with 2 WRs and there'd be a lot of truth to it, but we definitely need to spread our offense more, i.e., 3 or 4 WRs. I don't think I'll ever live to see Gibbs run a 5 WR set though

So my point is, we definitely could have used a WR at 25.

[The Hogster]

I understand where you're coming from, but we have a former 1st rounder in Moss, a superbowl champ in Patten, a Second Rounder in Jacobs that we have yet to see, and D-Mac and Thrash...because of the cap, we can't really get rid of these guys...not to mention that Gardner hasn't been traded.

So...i say this to say...who is to say that Roddy White or Fred Gibson would have been more valuable to this team, than a big, accurate and mobile quarterback? I agree we paid a stiff price for this, but now that you see that Gibbs is set on drafting another quarterback, and he may have with our next year's first rounder, doesn't it make sense to get that guy in here with a year's worth of experience now?

If Ramsey goes out and puts up 15 TD's and 20 Ints this year, Gibbs would have needed a QB to go to. By then, it would have been too late to draft a QB and thrust him into the lineup. Now that we have Campbell, we can give Ramsey time to get better, but if he doesn't we have a viable backup.

I can count the number of 1st downs we could have made if we had a QB who could pull it down and run for 8 yards instead of throwing it into the dirt.

[gabriel]

to me the QB pick only makes sense if we give brunnell the boot. we can be nice and hold the door for him on his way out, but he's got to leave. having 4 QB's w/ one not likley to play much (hasselback) and one who should not play (brunnell) is a lot of extra dead weight.

[UK Skins Fan]

Lordy, this Manfreda guy is a bit of a misery, isn't he?

Never mind, we're all entitled to be pessimistic if we want to be. Several of our picks puzzled me, and Campbell plus two fullbacks had me doing some serious head-scratching. I certainly didn't like this draft after day one, but you know what? I can remember never liking any of the drafts from Gibbs' first time here - when Bobby Beathard was pulling the strings.

The simple fact is, there is absolutely no point trying to grade the draft until three to five years down the line. It's all just fantasy football at this point. I like the fact that I had at least heard of everybody we picked, but that counts for diddly squat too. The thing is - will we have heard of any of them in five years time?

Here are my worthless predictions anyway:

Rogers will be in the Pro Bowl within three years.
Campbell will be our starting quarterback in three years.
White will make the team as an h-back.
McCune will be a starter within two years and be the unsung heartbeat of the defense.
Newberry won't make the team - practice squad maybe?
Broughton will rush 20 times for 20 first downs and five touchdowns in his first season.

There - all completely and utterly pointless, but I've convinced myself that this was a good draft. And it really wasn't difficult. And the draft hasn't even finished yet. Somewhere out there is a Joe Jacoby for the 21st century, just waiting to be picked up after not being drafted.

Oh, and one last thing. Our special teams will be better than any Redskins special teams have been since the days of Mike Nelms. Here endeth the waffle.

[thaiphoon]

Lets see going into the offseason we had the following holes:

1.) A WR that can get separation

2.) A DE that can disrupt the OL and rush the passer

3.) Inside OL

We added Casey Rabach so that solved #3. But we decided to pinch pennies and let Smoot and Pierce go. Now I'm all for a salary structure and weaning Danny off of overpaying by a mile, but Pierce and Smoot didn't sign but for a little bit more money than what we offered. Since they left and left us with no starting MLB (Barrow hasn't played in almost 2 YEARS, is in his early 30's ans isn't cleared to even start running until 2 months before training camp!!!) and a CB (Harris) that is getting older and is a nickel CB at best at this point in his career. With the fact that most of our sacks came from blitzes last year this means we need a shutdown corner which Harris isn't. So after all of this we go into the draft needing :

1.) A WR that can get separation

2.) A DE that can disrupt the OL and rush the passer

3.) a MLB

4.) a Shutdown CB

We got our shutdown CB in Rogers... no argument there (BTW I wasn't high on Williams and didn't think we should've drafted a WR at #9). But we could've traded down a few picks and picked up a second or third rounder and still got Rogers. But if a team wouldn't trade with us then its ok to stay and pick Rogers at #9. Still had we kept Smoot we'd have been able to draft a DE (when's the last time we had a force at DE?) or maybe Mark Clayton at WR. But even this doesn't burn me up as much as the following:

We spent 4 picks (including 2 first round picks) on a QB that won't play for at least 1.5-2 years !!! This guy Campbell better be the second coming of Peyton Manning and Joe Montana put together (they cost their teams a 1rst and a 2nd rounder respectively). I'm still trying to get my head aroudn the fact that we traded up in a WEAK draft that was weak in everything but CB and WR (which we needed) and we still didn't draft one WR !!! We should've taken a WR at #25 instead of a developmental QB that won't play for awhile and will do nothing to help Ramsey with his confidence this year.

Here's a list of the WR's still available when we took Campbell:

Roddy White, Chris Henry, Fred Gibson, Reggie Brown, Mark Bradley, Brandon Jones, Craphonso Thorpe and Jerome Mathis.

And that isn't counting all of them !! And why do you ask do we need a WR when we have so many on our roster ? Well because:

Gardner = Nicknamed "50/50", disappears in most games and occasionally has a good one. Was so ill-regarded by Gibbs he was told to seek a trade. Not a #1 and on alot of teams wouldn't even be a #2.

Moss= smallish WR that has not really put up really great numbers. Can run, but will get pushed around by a bigger CB and will have problesm with jumpballs. Plus he's from U of Miami and is a problem-child like the rest of them.

Jacobs = never has lived up to potential

Thrash = never has been a #1 calibre WR even when he was the #1 at Philly.

Mccants = a big, fast receiver who just doesn't pay attention to film and practice well. If you don't do either very well you don't play under Gibbs. There's a reason he was deactivated for most of the season last year folks despite his size and speed and good hands.

Patten = the guy's getting old. He had decent numbers last year b/c he was playing on an offense that could move the ball. The Patriots OL could actually pass block and give Brady time to throw. They could also run block to entice teams to put 8 men in the box to stop the run, enabling Patten to gain cheap yards.

Don't know about you but that crop of WR's doesn't give me the "Warm and Fuzzies".

Sorry trading 3 picks to move up in a WEAK draft to select a QB we might've gotten in the 3rd round had we stayed put was a bad move. We now have no 1rst rounder next year and for what ? A guy who won't play this year and maybe next. Your first rounders, unless you're the SuperBowl champs are supposed to have immediate impact. This one doesn't. Like I said, when he finally does get on the field, he better be the second coming of Manning, Montana and even Bradshaw for the future that we've mortgaged for him.

BTW- for those who will tell me "... let Gibbs do it, he's a great coach and when has he ever been wrong...". I don't deny he's a great coach and will coach the team to even beyond the limits of its abilities. But putting Dale Earnhardt Jr. behind the wheel of a Pinto is not going to win you the Daytona 500. Gibbs simply isn't a personnel man. As for when he's been wrong I'll close with this response:

Desmond Howard ... (Gibbs said "This guy has no holes")

I give the draft a C-. If Campbell turns into a starter then it goes up to a B-. But thats a big IF ...

[C'fieldSkin]

Saying Taylor Jacobs never lived up to his potential this early in his career isn't very fair. Most recievers don't flourish until year 3 or after. I realize there are exceptions to the rule but for the most part they don't. Smoot was a fan favorite, not a shutdown corner. Antonio Pierce was overpaid. We did fine on defense last year without a "big time DE". If Campbell becomes an adequate starter he will justify the pick. A franchise quarterback is a good pick even if you give up a 3rd and a 4th to move up to get him. We didn't give up two first rounds, we moved up a year to take the guy we wanted. This pick didn't mortgage our future, it was a 3rd and a 4th, not our next 5 first round picks. It will be okay. I promise.

[thaiphoon]

Saying Taylor Jacobs never lived up to his potential this early in his career isn't very fair. Most recievers don't flourish until year 3 or after.

He was a 1rst round pick as a WR. If he's goign to even try to show any potential he'd better actually line up as a STARTER ( as a #1 or #2) sometime in the first 3 years don't you think ??? He hasn't ... I'm not being hypercritical at all. I'm being realistic. Jacobs has 1 more year to produce or be officially a bust.

Smoot was a fan favorite, not a shutdown corner.

Look at his stats again. Teams threw away from him and he played hurt. He had speed to cover just about any receiver and did so just fine. He's a competitor with heart and we have a way under Snyder of pushing that type of player out the door (Brian Mitchell anyone ?)

Antonio Pierce was overpaid.

Ummm, look at his salary again for last year and then realize that this was a MLB on the 2nd ranked defense who was the teams leading tackler (or at least one of them) and he had a Pro-Bowl type year. Then come back (after lookign at his salary from last year) and tell me he was overpaid. If you mean he was overpaid by the Giants then realize this - Pierce is what ? 24 years old ? He has 6-8 (depending upon health) more good years left in him. He's on the upside of his career. The Giants got him for a song.

We did fine on defense last year without a "big time DE".

Because we blitzed alot. Pierce was good in coverage also as the MLB and we also had good OLB depth. Smoot and Springs coverage abilities allowed us to blitz alot mroe than we could've with lesser corners. Williams has a good system, but even a Ferrari stops running so well if you replace key parts with inferior ones from Trak Auto.

If Campbell becomes an adequate starter he will justify the pick. A franchise quarterback is a good pick even if you give up a 3rd and a 4th to move up to get him.

Thats a biggggg ... IF ... and there's a big difference between being "an adequate starter" and being a franchise QB

We didn't give up two first rounds, we moved up a year to take the guy we wanted. This pick didn't mortgage our future, it was a 3rd and a 4th, not our next 5 first round picks.

Look more closely at what I said again. We gave up this year's 3rd rounder (pick #1)... next years 4th rounder (pick#2) and next years 1rst rounder (pick#3) and USED this year's pick we obtained from the Broncos (pick#4) to take him. We gave up 3 picks but in actuality USED FOUR picks to get him... count them again 2 first rounders (this years and next years) a third rounder (2005) and a Fourth rounder (2006) for a guy who is not going to start right away.

GREAT JOB GUYS !!!

It will be okay. I promise.

I will always root for the skins. I will never root for another team. But I'm tired of trying to convince myself that it will be okay. And since Snyder is my age (30's) I'll never ever experience another Redskins team without him as the owner. I wish he'd hurry up and sell the team soon. The only other way this hell will end is if I outlive him. That way I can experience at least some joy for my Redskins in my 80's and 90's (if I live that long) again before I die.

[gay4pacman]

Take a deep breath man its going to be ok.

[C'fieldSkin]

Taylor Jacobs was selected in the 2nd round, not the first. Springs was the number 1 corner last year, he covered the big time recievers. Antonio Pierce was overpaid by the Giants. Gregg Williams will continue to blitz, because thats what he does. The blitz will be even better with LA coming back. Carlos Rogers will be an adequate replacement for Smoot. He was excellent in man to man throughout his college career. He was on the All Freshman team his freshman year and then won the Thorpe award as the best corner in the country. He will be an excellent replacement for a player who had a lot of heart but had reached his ceiling as far as potential. We did not use 4 picks to get Campbell. We swapped first rounders. We got the Bronco's this year and they got ours next year. The 3rd and the 4th were traded to them to get them to swap with us. Its no bigger an IFFFFF than if Patrick Ramsey will ever even be a successful starter. If Campbell can lead this team to the playoffs, he will justify the pick.

[thaiphoon]

Taylor Jacobs was selected in the 2nd round, not the first.

Ah yes. My mistake. Still doesn't change the fact that he'd better produce this year or be a bust

Springs was the number 1 corner last year, he covered the big time recievers.

And Smoot covered the #2. Additionally from what I know of GW defenses he doesn't line up one CB all the time on the #1 WR. Smoot played with intensity and played well. He came back and played hurt and was effective considering his still being injured. You're telling me a "core Redskin" with heart like he has doesn't warrant the what ? 500k extra or so that he signed with the Vikings for ? (caveat - > I don't have the figures at hand but I know its not a great chasm between their offer nad ours)

Antonio Pierce was overpaid by the Giants.

Explain how the leading tackler (or one of them) who is in the prime of his career (isn't he 24?) and had a Pro Bowl calibre season last year was overpiad by the Giants when they didn't offer him much more than we did ?? The Giants got a MLB who has a nose for being where the balls is and can actually cover and loves to play the run and still has 6-8 more good years left in him. I say they stole him.

Gregg Williams will continue to blitz, because thats what he does. The blitz will be even better with LA coming back.

When you blitz it puts pressure on your CB's. With Smoot and Springs we didn't need to worry.

Carlos Rogers will be an adequate replacement for Smoot. He was excellent in man to man throughout his college career. He was on the All Freshman team his freshman year and then won the Thorpe award as the best corner in the country. He will be an excellent replacement for a player who had a lot of heart but had reached his ceiling as far as potential.

I'm not knocking Rogers at all. Given the position we were in after screwing up signing our 2 main guys we should've signed on Defense, we needed to draft a CB at #9. I'm not one of the guys who thinks Mike Williams will be a stud in the NFL. Given our situation drafting him was thr right choice and I also had him as the Best overall CB.

We did not use 4 picks to get Campbell. We swapped first rounders. We got the Bronco's this year and they got ours next year. The 3rd and the 4th were traded to them to get them to swap with us.

We most certainly did USE 4 picks on him. We used the 25th pick this year (#1). We USED the 3rd rounder this year by sending it to the Broncos (#2). We USED the 4th rounder next year by sending it to the Broncos(#3). We also USED the 1rst rounder next year by sending it to the Broncos(#4). If we didn't USE them then where are the draftees that we would've gotten had the selections been ours ?? 4 picks should bring in 4 people... only 1 guy actually is a Redskin. Do the math.

Additionally, unless we reach the 2nd round of the playoffs this year the Broncos get the better end of the bargain. Why ? Because they trade out of the 1rst round in a weak draft (this years) and garner an extra pick in the 3rd round to get another body in camp (better shot at getting a late round gem). They also stockpile another #1 for next year (which will be lower than #25 if you're realistic) and add a 4th rounder next year. And next year's draft class looks to be a good one.

Its no bigger an IFFFFF than if Patrick Ramsey will ever even be a successful starter. If Campbell can lead this team to the playoffs, he will justify the pick.

Again ... a big IF ... Ramsey has already shown the talent and produced (albeit inconsistently but that can be chalked up to having to learn 2 different systems and getting hit 2 milliseconds after the snap every time he drops back).

Campbell hasn't. Campbell has had one good year and even alot of NFL personnel and even SEC coaches say he was a reach at #25.

We continue to mortgage our future drafts to get "THE GUY" when we're better served to stand pat. Any wonder why the Pats and Eagles were in the SB ? They have a ton of draft picks (by trading down in weak drafts and not trading picks for ERFA) and build through the draft. We give them away like they were condoms at a free-clinic while signing head-cases and players that just don't pan out. All while letting guys who have heart and play well (Smoot and Pierce), leave.

[C'fieldSkin]

So, Taylor is a bust after two years even though he is a 2nd round pick and has had to learn two different schemes, but Ramsey hasn't done anything in three and he is still the best thing ever. You guys are really trying to find something wrong with the team. Jeremiah Trotter comes to mind when you talk about young lead tacklers switching teams. Pierce was given a good deal more than we offered. Smoot didn't cover the big time recievers. I repeat he did not cover the big time recievers. He was going to be paid a considerably larger amount a year to play for Minnesota. Not just the 500k more he got on a signing bonus. If Carlos is going to be fine why even bring up that with Smoot and Springs we didn't need to worry? Carlos will do just as well as Smoot. The 1st rounder we used to pick Campbell did not exist before we traded for it. We didn't use four picks, we used three. The fourth one did not exist before we made the trade to get it. Ramsey hasn't shown anything yet to warrant him being considered the future of the franchise. He just doesn't move well enough for Gibbs scheme. Campbell has just as good a chance as Ramsey at this point to lead this team anywhere. A lot NFL personnel say he was better than Alex Smith or Aaron Rodgers too. They all have different opinions. You guys need to quit trying to doom this team. Layoff the negativity. Don't make excuses for one side and use the same argument against the other. Ramsey has started and did marginal at best. He did have two different cooridinators and a bad line, and he has this year to prove his ability. Thats four years. We will have a young QB ready to take over if he doesn't show anybetter ability next year.

[thaiphoon]

So, Taylor is a bust after two years even though he is a 2nd round pick and has had to learn two different schemes, but Ramsey hasn't done anything in three and he is still the best thing ever.

Show me where I've ever said Ramsey's the "best thing ever". If you want to argue with me for things I have said then great, we'll have a discussion. But arguing with me about things I haven't said, well thats where we'll part company. Also, yes Jacobs will be a bust since he hasn't cracked the starting lineup in over two years despite his draft status. When you've got slow Rod Gardner who drops too many balls and disappears for long stretches still starting over you then you've got problems.

You guys are really trying to find something wrong with the team.

I actually don't have to try. Things are readily apparent if you'd only the courage to see.

Jeremiah Trotter comes to mind when you talk about young lead tacklers switching teams. Pierce was given a good deal more than we offered.

6 years , $26M and a $6.5M bonus doesn't seem like too much to pay for a young MLB who had a Pro-Bowl calibre year (112 Tackles - 85 solo, 2 fumbles, 2INT's one for a TD) and who can not only play the run but can actually cover. This guy is only going to get better.

Smoot didn't cover the big time recievers. I repeat he did not cover the big time recievers.

Gee... my mistake. Maybe it was the constant stories and bylines by the play-by-play people who continuously said that GW didn't use 1 CB to cover the top receiver (a la Deon Sanders/Darrell Green) and instead had them play their side of the field. Gee all those stories coupled with the fact I saw Smoot covering many times the opposition's #1 WR. And that Garnell Wilds was playing Randy Moss in man coverage at times in the Minnesota game really makes your case for you.

He was going to be paid a considerably larger amount a year to play for Minnesota. Not just the 500k more he got on a signing bonus.

The total cost of the contract was not much more than we offered IMHO. Especially considering he was a good CB who could cover and had heart. And especially considering had we kept him we wouldn't have needed to use the #9 on a CB.

If Carlos is going to be fine why even bring up that with Smoot and Springs we didn't need to worry?

Because WE DIDN'T !! We didn't last year either !! Had we retained Smoot we wouldn't have HAD to draft a CB at #9. Did you ever stop to think about the fact that NO front 7 defensive player was gone from the board when we selected at #9 ?? When was the last ime we had a DE who could be disruptive ?? Anyone remember that far back ??

But since we let Smoot leave we HAD to use that pick on a CB. Rogers was the best CB in my mind for our defense so it was a good pick considering the hole we had already dug ourselves.

The 1st rounder we used to pick Campbell did not exist before we traded for it. We didn't use four picks, we used three. The fourth one did not exist before we made the trade to get it.

Is there going to be a draft next year ?? Is there ?? Well unless a huge meteor hits the Eart hand wipes out 1/2 the population we will be drafting next year. And next year we will be USING our first round pick by giving it to the Broncos for the guy we picked this year. So YES ... we DID use 4 picks for Campbell.

Ramsey hasn't shown anything yet to warrant him being considered the future of the franchise. He just doesn't move well enough for Gibbs scheme.

You want mobility ? I say Mark Rypien - seems he won us a SB ... no ??

Campbell has just as good a chance as Ramsey at this point to lead this team anywhere. A lot NFL personnel say he was better than Alex Smith or Aaron Rodgers too. They all have different opinions.

No Campbell doesn't. His chance is to sit on the bench and watch Ramsey. The worst thing that could happen to him is to get embroiled ina QB controversy in this town. Which means he won't be playing for 2 years if no QB controversy happens. Meanwhile the person with the current better chance of gettign us back to winning games and gettignto the playoffs is already the starter. Campbell may very well be better than Ramsey. But for what we gave up to get him, he'd better end up being Joe Montana and Peyton Manning reborn.

You guys need to quit trying to doom this team. Layoff the negativity. Don't make excuses for one side and use the same argument against the other.

I haven't ... you can have only 1 QB but if you're a WR you have more positions open in order to crack the starting lineup. Ramsey has shown he can make the throws and stand in the pocket. He's also shown that he can't take being beat down 50 times a game (a la Spurrier-ball). He's only human after all. He's done better under Gibbs and will continue to do better.

Ramsey has started and did marginal at best. He did have two different cooridinators and a bad line, and he has this year to prove his ability. Thats four years. We will have a young QB ready to take over if he doesn't show anybetter ability next year.

Yes ... and no 1rst rounder next year and basically no #1 WR to throw to because we screwed the pooch in this offseason. Like I said, with Campbell here we're basically in long term rebuilding mode. Ramsey will be gone as soon as he finishes his contract and we'll be stuck with another young QB we then have to continue grooming.

[trey53]

Wow. Football is supposed to be fun.

Anyway, I don't think the team is in that bad of shape. I'm happy with the Campbell signing. Gives us a good option for the future. Was he worth three picks? (and it is three, man. We swapped firsts.) If he wins he will be. Doesn't have to be Montana...just has to do enough for the team to win. To be quite honest I think Ramsey is so-so. I really pull for him but he was the best option this year due to Brunell stinking up the joint. He looked so much better that everyone says he has proven he should be the starter. Compared to Brunell and Hasslebeck...yeah...but he threw for one more INT this year than he did TD. That's not good. Gibbs saw something he liked in Campbell. Go for it...why not, you see your guy, pull the trigger.
The whole thing with Smoot made me a little sad but they didn't want to pay him more than Springs. I can understand that. Springs is a better CB. Plus the Vikes paid him more yearly up front than we were willing to. Gonna miss Pierce but I think we can find someone just as capable to fill in...for less money than the gints gave Pierce. Hopefully Daniels will come back healthy and make the D-line that much better. Williams is a great D-coordinator. So what if we fall to the number 4 D instead of 2.
Hoepfully with the oline healthy the Offense won't suck again. I think our WRs will do alright. They can stretch the field and that is something we didn't have last year. I'm actually looking forward to the season. But if you wanna moan and groan in misery that is your prerogative, I guess.