Draft Implications

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:27 pm

We passed on Mike Williams in this draft...

Is Joe Gibbs confident in our reciever corps?

Will we see Taylor Jacobs get some playing time in 2005?

What does this mean?

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:52 pm

I wish I knew what it meant. The only thing I can think of is that our guys had Rogers rated higher than Mike Williams and took the 'better player' that they thought of between the two.

My only problem is why? Why take him? He was the third best corner in the draft. But Williams was the #1 or #2 best WR. We need both corner and reciever, so why not take the best receiver and then take the best corner available at 25. Turns out that would have been Marlin Jackson, or Justin Miller.

The difference between Jackson, Miller and Rogers to me is much less than the difference between Williams and whatever we get in the 4th round.

air_hog · Post by **air_hog** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:52 pm

Maybe he sees that D Mac really is a good Red Zone player because by the end of last year, he was getting more playing time.

I think our WR core is good to go, and although I would have loved Mike Williams, Carlos Rogers fills a void in the Secondary which was needed.

I dont know what to think about Jason Campbell. I really wanted Heath Miller and I know he would have greatly improved our passing game. I will support Patrick Ramsey 100% because he is the starting QB.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:59 pm

I wonder were there any "character issues" with Williams? They showed him a few times live on ESPN today, and it looked like he has an attitude problem! I could be wrong, but he might have a tood.

gilbertarenas · Post by **gilbertarenas** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:09 pm

Attititude problems are overrated. This isn't a personality contest. As long as they come out to play on Sunday. There aren't that many good wr without attititude problems. Chad Johnson, Joe Horn, Terrell Owens, and Randy Moss just to name a few.

football · Post by **football** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:11 pm

Chad Johnson, Joe Horn, Terrell Owens, and Randy Moss didnt win the super bowl. the patriots with a humble corp of wr's, none of which have attitude problems did. i would much rather have team players than me first players who are full of themselves. thats why the patriots are winners

chicosbailbond · Post by **chicosbailbond** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:58 pm

i will start by saying i wanted Mike Williams... not braylon and not Pac Man....

I think the pick shows two things... One Walt Harris is not a starting corner... and two Gibbs is trying to win right now...

He traded away next years draft for this year... WR's take time to develop... usually 3 years... Jacobs is coming into that stage now... and Mike Williams is and will be a beast but he won't be able to contribute this year....

DaRealistJoka · Post by **DaRealistJoka** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:09 am

Rod looks like he will be a redskin this year because we did not pick WR with the 25 pick.

darkwing99 · Post by **darkwing99** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:39 am

i can live with the rodgers pick, but campbell at 25 :roll:

comon now we could have gotten Heath Miller a damn good tight end

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:52 am

actually, while I don't know heath miller that well, from what I've seen he's not the best blocker. He's adequate, but not great. Why pick a TE in the first round that's not a superior blocker, when that's all our TE's do is block?

I still don't understand why people wanted us to pick him. His receiving skills would have been of almost no use to the washington redskins...

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:04 am

football wrote:Chad Johnson, Joe Horn, Terrell Owens, and Randy Moss didnt win the super bowl. the patriots with a humble corp of wr's, none of which have attitude problems did. i would much rather have team players than me first players who are full of themselves. thats why the patriots are winners

haha, I was gonna say. How many superbowls have those guys teams won?

Redskins4Life · Post by **Redskins4Life** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:03 am

football wrote:Chad Johnson, Joe Horn, Terrell Owens, and Randy Moss didnt win the super bowl. the patriots with a humble corp of wr's, none of which have attitude problems did. i would much rather have team players than me first players who are full of themselves. thats why the patriots are winners

man i've never really thought of that. But then again I woulddnt call Santana Moss a humble wide reciever. Anyone who shows up with Got Moss? hats at their press conferernce and doesnt even bother to show up at voluntary workouts is an ass. good post though

sch1977 · Post by **sch1977** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:20 am

The Hogster wrote:I wish I knew what it meant. The only thing I can think of is that our guys had Rogers rated higher than Mike Williams and took the 'better player' that they thought of between the two.

My only problem is why? Why take him? He was the third best corner in the draft. But Williams was the #1 or #2 best WR. We need both corner and reciever, so why not take the best receiver and then take the best corner available at 25. Turns out that would have been Marlin Jackson, or Justin Miller.

The difference between Jackson, Miller and Rogers to me is much less than the difference between Williams and whatever we get in the 4th round.

I dont think that Rogers is the 3rd best CB. Many teams had him rated higher than jones and rolle. jones will be mediocre in the NFL due to his lack of size. Imagine him trying to jump for the ball with Moss or Mike Williams.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:06 pm

This draft means Gibbs is writing the season off. No attempt to fill holes at WR, TE, and DE-- all necessary if we are to win next year. He's looking down the road because he doesn't think he can win with Ramsey anyway. One of the two FB's will help with short yardage, admittedly, but McCune is an MLB project who can't play pass defence at present and Campbell will take at least a year of sitting to be a factor.
This season's about saving cap space and bucks and getting rid of Ramsey.
We'll continue to be a horror show on offense. Those of us who think the line can open holes for Portis or pass block well enough for Ramsey to find Patten or Moss have short memories or have bought myths to explain past deficiences.
Spurrier's blocking assignments were not the only reasons Ramsey used to have his head taken off. Just what line what is that led the league in blown assignments and other absurd penalties? Did Gibbs put an end to the stupidities? I don't think so.
Jansen back or not, we have the dumbest line in football. Or maybe it was all Raymer's fault. Can we run the ball with Dockery blocking the wrong man and Samuels letting his man run Portis down from the backside, or Royal trying to hold his own, or Jansen trying to come back from a subpar season and then a season off from injury. Nope.
If Gibbs wanted to win this year, he had to step up with some moves. We needed weapons-- not just a CB and a couple of prospects.
We could be fielding Mike Williams and Health Miller with Moss and Cool

ey. Then Portis could run.
I think the FO has lost its mind.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:15 pm

Mods,

Is there any way you could put a sticky on some of these posts so that if and when we do have a great season as a result of Gibbs' actions, we can give a GIANT collective "I Told You So" to some of these bandwagon folks?

[/u]

SkinzCanes · Post by **SkinzCanes** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:23 pm

Is there any way you could put a sticky on some of these posts so that if and when we do have a great season as a result of Gibbs' actions, we can give a GIANT collective "I Told You So" to some of these bandwagon folks?

JP get over yourself. Just because some people don't agree with the moves that the team is making and actually chose to question the decisions instead of blindly following Gibbs like lapdogs doesn't make them "bandwagon" fans. Obviously everybody on this board cares enough about the Skins to take the time to come here and share their thoughts on the team so don't denegrate them by calling people names. You're no more or less of fan than anybody else here so why not just stick to talking to about football??

ii7-V7 · Post by **ii7-V7** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:34 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:This draft means Gibbs is writing the season off. No attempt to fill holes at WR, TE, and DE-- all necessary if we are to win next year.......or Jansen trying to come back from a subpar season and then a season off from injury.

Hey, there you are...and thats just what I expected from someone who is so much more educated than all of us....and apparently Joe Gibbs too!

By the way, when did Jansen ever have a subpar season?

Chad

GoSkins · Post by **GoSkins** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:35 pm

There is absolutely no way that Gibbs has written off this season. He wants big blocking guys at H-Back, TE, and wants a bull in short yardage situations. On D we got an all pro potential CB, a stud MLB and an OLB that might play Safety. Plus some of these picks can really excel at special teams. The only ? is Campbell and Gibbs probably feels he needs a great young QB in case Ramsey falters or leaves via FA. He knows losing a starting QB is tantamount to disaster. Let's all relax and let things work out over the next 3-4 months.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:09 pm

Obviously everybody on this board cares enough about the Skins to take the time to come here and share their thoughts on the team so don't denegrate them by calling people names. You're no more or less of fan than anybody else here so why not just stick to talking to about football??

Actually, I disagree with you. Perhaps you havent' read the same posts that I have where comments such as "Gibbs has written off the season" "Gibbs is washed up" "Gibbs needs to go" "Gibbs doesn't know what he's doing" "We should have done this, we should have done that" etc.... is not a sing of someone that is even capable of talking about football. Now, being capable of whining like a baby that didn't get the toy they wanted for Christmas, that's a different story. In the last two days we've seen a few of those types come on here, but to say they are a competent authority on talking about football is giving them way too much credit. Maybe they should learn about how football teams operate before they come in here and talk about it. It's always amazed me how you can tell a posters age group just by their attitude to coaches decisions.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:16 am

Actually, I disagree with you. Perhaps you havent' read the same posts that I have where comments such as "Gibbs has written off the season" "Gibbs is washed up" "Gibbs needs to go" "Gibbs doesn't know what he's doing" "We should have done this, we should have done that" etc.... is not a sing of someone that is even capable of talking about football. Now, being capable of whining like a baby that didn't get the toy they wanted for Christmas, that's a different story. In the last two days we've seen a few of those types come on here, but to say they are a competent authority on talking about football is giving them way too much credit. Maybe they should learn about how football teams operate before they come in here and talk about it. It's always amazed me how you can tell a posters age group just by their attitude to coaches decisions.

Telling the Emporer what great clothes he's wearing (even though he isn't wearing any) because you're afraid of being looked down upon as a "fair weather fan" by others or are simply pollyannish about his prospects doesn't make you more mature either.

Actually being mature enough to root for the Emporer but also have the temerity to yell out " You have no Clothes On " does qualify one as a mature adult IMHO.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:37 am

Telling the Emporer what great clothes he's wearing (even though he isn't wearing any) because you're afraid of being looked down upon as a "fair weather fan" by others or are simply pollyannish about his prospects doesn't make you more mature either.

Actually being mature enough to root for the Emporer but also have the temerity to yell out " You have no Clothes On " does qualify one as a mature adult IMHO.

When I typed in www.the-hogs.net did I get misdirected to a "Confucius say" site?

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:23 am

When I typed in www.the-hogs.net did I get misdirected to a "Confucius say" site?

LOL ... since you didn't respond to what I said, I'll take that as tacit agreement.

The point is, fans who agree with every choice the team makes and think every pick is the best one are more mature. And those who actually use their right of dissent to express displeasure with choices that are made by their team are not immature, disloyal, whiners.

I would think you would've gotten my point but alas, I actually had to spell it out for you.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:47 am

thaiphoon wrote:
When I typed in www.the-hogs.net did I get misdirected to a "Confucius say" site?

LOL ... since you didn't respond to what I said, I'll take that as tacit agreement.

The point is, fans who agree with every choice the team makes and think every pick is the best one are more mature. And those who actually use their right of dissent to express displeasure with choices that are made by their team are not immature, disloyal, whiners.

I would think you would've gotten my point but alas, I actually had to spell it out for you.

The point ISN"T that fans disagree with the moves that are being made by Gibbs, but the conclusions that these mentally gifted "fans" are coming to. You really can't call them conclusions, a better description would be baseless ramblings. If you don't agree with a move there ia nothing wrong with stating that you didn't like it, but a little insight as to why you done like the move would help.

JPFair wrote:Actually, I disagree with you. Perhaps you havent' read the same posts that I have where comments such as "Gibbs has written off the season" "Gibbs is washed up" "Gibbs needs to go" "Gibbs doesn't know what he's doing" "We should have done this, we should have done that" etc.... is not a sing of someone that is even capable of talking about football. Now, being capable of whining like a baby that didn't get the toy they wanted for Christmas, that's a different story. In the last two days we've seen a few of those types come on here, but to say they are a competent authority on talking about football is giving them way too much credit. Maybe they should learn about how football teams operate before they come in here and talk about it. It's always amazed me how you can tell a posters age group just by their attitude to coaches decisions.

Note how he disagreed, stated why he disagreed and a posible reason for the disagreement.

Telling the Emporer he has no cloths on when he is naked is a statement of fact.

"Gibbs has written off the season"
"Gibbs is washed up"
"Gibbs needs to go"
"Gibbs doesn't know what he's doing"
"We should have done this, we should have done that" etc....
Do we have a source or link for any of this :?:

.... uhh NO

What lead to these assumtions :?:

...... The posters made these statemants because they didn't like the moves that Joe Gibbs made on draft day. Well they should have told Joe what they where thinking. Joe says he gives everyone one the staff input.
Now if these guys aren't on the staff that would explain why we don't have the pick that they wanted or the trade they didn't like was made. It also explains why they have no idea what they are posting or what the Skins are doing

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:41 am

I'm not so sure it's as black and white as those who agree and those who disagree with the management decisions. It's about respecting the decision that was made, while still agreeing or disagreeing. Many people have expressed a strong disagreement with Gibbs' decision, and that is certainly their right. But, what I see as inappropriate, is the posts where people make comments that actually attack Joe Gibb's character. For instance, a few posters have said he's lied to the fans. One has even said he's an idiot. Also, even those that disagree with his draft, should at a minimum have respect for his track record and his dedication to The Redskins. One poster even went as far as to say he's washed up, or that he's blown another draft. While that is their opinion that they're entitled to, only time can tell whether this draft has been blown or not. To simply say that Gibbs is washed up is a senseless thing to say, and indicative of someone who lacks the ability to give his/her team the respect that they deserve. IMO.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:17 pm

If you don't agree with a move there ia nothing wrong with stating that you didn't like it, but a little insight as to why you done like the move would help.

I've done just that. And I didn't appreciate the implication that I'm a whiny, immature person for stating where I disagreed with the moves and why. There are a few others that have disagreed with the moves and have stated their case (such as me). There ARE others (and I agree) who simply throw bombs because they are mad. Now if he wasn't talking to me then we're ok.

I'm not so sure it's as black and white as those who agree and those who disagree with the management decisions. It's about respecting the decision that was made, while still agreeing or disagreeing.

I'm somewhat onboard with you here

Many people have expressed a strong disagreement with Gibbs' decision, and that is certainly their right.

/agreed

But, what I see as inappropriate, is the posts where people make comments that actually attack Joe Gibb's character. For instance, a few posters have said he's lied to the fans. One has even said he's an idiot.

I also join in with you on this one.

Also, even those that disagree with his draft, should at a minimum have respect for his track record and his dedication to The Redskins.

Which I've done. Gibbs will always be my coach ... just not my GM.

One poster even went as far as to say he's washed up, or that he's blown another draft. While that is their opinion that they're entitled to, only time can tell whether this draft has been blown or not.

/agreed here as well. I think Gibbs is far from washed up (he wil lalways be my coach after all), I just believe that he needs a full-time GM (and God let it not be Cerrato) to help him get the players he needs.

To simply say that Gibbs is washed up is a senseless thing to say, and indicative of someone who lacks the ability to give his/her team the respect that they deserve. IMO.

fine ... we agree here as well. I now more clearly understand where you are coming from. I was a tad miffed by the implication that I got from reading your previous post that anyone who disagrees with JG is an immature whiner. Thank you for clarifying your position. And hopefully you can see mine as well.