Redskins bypass several needs

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:48 am

I wonder if there are any "thumbs up" post draft Redskins articles out there. This is looking one sided in media-world.

I think Snyder has locked himself into a padded room for the next 3 weeks.

http://washtimes.com/sports/20050425-122720-5084r.htm

By David Elfin
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published April 25, 2005

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If the NFL Draft is becoming increasingly need-driven, as Washington vice president of football operations Vinny Cerrato said, it was a curious weekend for the Redskins.

While the Redskins bravely passed on the draft's second-best receiver (Southern Cal's Mike Williams) to fill their biggest void by choosing Auburn cornerback Carlos Rogers with the ninth overall pick on Saturday, the rest of their selections prompted some serious head-scratching.

With such big receivers as Roddy White of Alabama-Birmingham, Reggie Brown of Georgia and Terrence Murphy of Texas A&M (all at least 6 feet tall) still on the board, the Redskins took Auburn quarterback Jason Campbell with the No. 25 choice. This despite Joe Gibbs' statement that starter Patrick Ramsey can take the team "to the promised land" of championships and the coach's belief that former starter Mark Brunell still can be an effective NFL passer.

A team coming off a 6-10 season and six years removed from its last playoff spot rarely has the luxury of a developmental first-round pick while having bigger holes at receiver, defensive end and middle linebacker. Washington also traded away its choices in the second and third rounds as well as next year's first-round selection.

Such defensive ends as Oklahoma's Dan Cody, Notre Dame's Justin Tuck and Iowa's Matt Roth also were available when the Redskins chose Campbell, as were all the inside linebackers, led by Georgia's Odell Thurman and Nebraska's Barrett Ruud.
And despite trading Laveranues Coles, who caught 90 passes last year, Gibbs said he's "comfortable" with a receiving corps of newcomers Santana Moss (45 catches) and David Patten (44) and holdovers James Thrash (17), Taylor Jacobs (16) and Darnerien McCants (five). That position also was ignored this weekend.

Gibbs plans to quickly resolve the status of former starting receiver Rod Gardner, whom Washington has been trying to trade for three months. The coach has hinted that Gardner, who was inconsistent in catching 51 passes last season, now could be brought back. Gardner, who has been excused from the offseason conditioning program at Redskin Park, couldn't be reached for a reaction. Agent Joel Segal declined comment.

The Redskins stood pat at defensive end this weekend even though holdovers Renaldo Wynn, Phillip Daniels, Demetric Evans, Ron Warner and Ryan Boschetti combined for just nine sacks in 2004. Washington also didn't add to that position in free agency.
Washington opened yesterday by again bypassing its major needs, trading down with Minnesota in the fourth round -- to obtain a fifth-rounder -- and taking a running back. At 6-2 and 245 pounds, UCLA's Manuel White Jr. will be tried at H-back behind Chris ey and in goal-line and third-down situations. The latter role also could fit seventh rounder Nehemiah Broughton, a fullback from The Citadel who plays a position that Gibbs doesn't usually employ.

The Redskins did address needs with linebackers Robert McCune in the fifth round and Jared Newberry in the sixth. However, McCune apparently is more quick than physical and after spending three years in the Army before walking on at Louisville. He's 26 years old. Newberry, meanwhile, is just 234 pounds, having played outside at Stanford.
At least McCune and Newberry can dream about replacing departed starter Antonio Pierce considering 35-year-old Michael Barrow missed last season with a balky left knee and 2004 weak side starter Lemar Marshall never has played in the middle.

While such NFL stars as New England quarterback Tom Brady have been taken on the second day of the draft, Washington found only one starter -- tight end Robert Royal, a fifth-rounder in 2002 -- in the previous seven drafts below the 120th pick. In fact, just six of the Redskins' 23 selections from that point are still on the roster.
And not only are there few starters still remaining in the free agent market, there don't figure to be many quality players available after salary cap-related post-June 1 cuts. So the 2005 Redskins will be further sculpted by attrition, not addition.

kspeed10 · Post by **kspeed10** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:02 pm

Skip Bayless said on Cold Pizza this morning that the Redskins were winners in the draft because they got a "shut down" corner and the best quarterback in the draft in his opinion.

Skip Bayless obviously doesn't know the Redskins or their needs and he doesn't seem to understand that there is no such thing as a "shut down" corner. The Redskins defense is a system defense and it is designed to get guys to play to their strengths. We could've drafted Mike Williams and significantly improved our 30th ranked offense and then drafted a corner that would play well in Greg Williams' system.

Campbell has many flaws that Bayless apparently overlooked and I don't know that he understands that if Ramsey has a good season, and he will, that he will be the man in DC for several years to come and Campbell will be nothing but a clip board holder.

The skins missed the opportunity to draft an impact player on offense and for some reason, Skip Bayless overlooked this point.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:03 pm

What needs do we still have?

The Redskins stood pat at defensive end this weekend even though holdovers Renaldo Wynn, Phillip Daniels, Demetric Evans, Ron Warner and Ryan Boschetti combined for just nine sacks in 2004. Washington also didn't add to that position in free agency.

There are several single DL players in other teams that made more sacks than our entire DL last year. Instead, we are going to have to gamble with blitzes.

Welcome to the board kspeed10.

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:07 pm

kspeed10 wrote:Skip Bayless said on Cold Pizza this morning that the Redskins were winners in the draft because they got a "shut down" corner and the best quarterback in the draft in his opinion.

Skip Bayless obviously doesn't know the Redskins or their needs and he doesn't seem to understand that there is no such thing as a "shut down" corner. The Redskins defense is a system defense and it is designed to get guys to play to their strengths. We could've drafted Mike Williams and significantly improved our 30th ranked offense and then drafted a corner that would play well in Greg Williams' system.

Campbell has many flaws that Bayless apparently overlooked and I don't know that he understands that if Ramsey has a good season, and he will, that he will be the man in DC for several years to come and Campbell will be nothing but a clip board holder.

The skins missed the opportunity to draft an impact player on offense and for some reason, Skip Bayless overlooked this point.

I think Carlos Rogers is one hell of a CB.

Only 18 out of 65 passes were completed against him last season. Like Chris Cool

ey, he one the award for Best at His Position last year.

kspeed10 · Post by **kspeed10** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 pm

DLine is also a need we didn't address. I agree we should've looked for DLine, but we also need an impact player on offense and we passed up arguably the best player in the draft. We could've drafted DLine istead of a FB in the later rounds.

I'm not saying that Rogers isn't good, I'm just saying we could've drafted a corner with 25 and gotten a guy that could come in and start and do a good job too AND gotten Mike Williams, the perfect compliment to Sanatana Moss.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:19 pm

Defense wins championships. All we need to do is maintain our defensive dominance, and match it with an average offense.

If we were just average last year on offense, we would have gone 12-4. Just one more touchdown per game.

With that said, I think we can't overlook the offseason moves we have made. Moss, Patten, will stretch the field. Jacobs is just as good if not better than Roddy White or Terrance Murphy...why not give him the opportunity instead of drafting a rookie.

I read that Musgrave has been working with Ramsey and Gibbs, and they have even added some Shotgun formations to the offense.

We must not forget, that we are also getting Jansen back and a stud at center. If we can dominate on the ground this year, keep drives going by pounding our new beasts of the backfield, and just execute the passing game, then we will be in the playoffs...and have unlimited potential.

I hope Ramsey does play like a pro-bowler this year...either way, we win.

spudstr04 · Post by **spudstr04** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:26 pm

we needed another WR because we don't know how long Moss is going to hold out and we also needed a DT or DE to help with the pass rusher..why the hell did we get 2 FB in the late rounds when we could've picked up a decent DT to help us out????

joebagadonuts · Post by **joebagadonuts** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:41 pm

one could look at it this way;

first, a high quality corner will allow the dline more time to get to the qb. second, on offense, a fullback who can convert that 3rd and 1 will keep the opposing offense off the field. all of our picks (save for campbell) helped the defense in some way. if there's someone who can see the big picture, it's gibbs.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:46 pm

joebagadonuts wrote:one could look at it this way;

first, a high quality corner will allow the dline more time to get to the qb.

One could ALSO look at it this way:

A high quality DE will force the opposing QB to have less time to beat the corner.

runbillo · Post by **runbillo** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:48 pm

Greetings from NYC: I heard Randy Thomas state that Taylor Jacobs was our best reciver last year. If this is true then we are set at wide reciever. I believe there is little difference bewteen Mike Williams and McCants! We need a shut down corner with the type of defense we play!!!

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:24 pm

runbillo wrote:Greetings from NYC: I heard Randy Thomas state that Taylor Jacobs was our best reciver last year. If this is true then we are set at wide reciever. I believe there is little difference bewteen Mike Williams and McCants! We need a shut down corner with the type of defense we play!!!

My eyes are on Jacobs big time.

Step up young man, step up!

VRIEL1 · Post by **VRIEL1** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:53 pm

I truly belive our WR are awsome and we do not need anymore. What we do need is some better routes and better fakes to throw off the defenders. I belive this is the WR coaches issue and if he can't come up with ways to get our WR open or seperated from the defenders then his coaching is not working. All our WR looked like they were running simple routes and no movements to throw off the CB's. You can do that but you better have speedy WR to out run the CB or teach the WR to find ways to get open. D-line does bother me but maybe they saw samuels and felt they had something to prove also and started working out with him.lol. Maybe they will be a beast this year also. Most of the pressure comes from CB or LB's so I'm sure Greg Williams is happy. Gibbs should be happy because he now has some heavy punchers to make the 3-1. I don't think he was all fired up about Betts...not that he wasn't a good player and showed well in the Minn. game but he does not plow people over well. Put in one of these rookies and Cool

ey and some good WR like Jacobs and Patton and Moss and other teams will be worrying about which to stop.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:49 pm

if I hear that crap about defenses winning championships one more time, I'm going to search out the speaker and send him to college. Anyone who believes such a damn fool thing ought to check out our record last year.

Great Natale · Post by **Great Natale** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:04 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:if I hear that crap about defenses winning championships one more time, I'm going to search out the speaker and send him to college. Anyone who believes such a damn fool thing ought to check out our record last year.

I agree. But your defensive can't just stink. I firmly believe that a potent offense and a respectfull defense is much better than a mediocre offense and an awesome defense.

Who would you rather be the Colts or the Ravens? That is a retorical question!

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:20 pm

delete please

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:21 pm

delete please

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:23 pm

delete please

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:25 pm

delete please

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:30 pm

kspeed10 wrote:DLine is also a need we didn't address. I agree we should've looked for DLine, but we also need an impact player on offense and we passed up arguably the best player in the draft. We could've drafted DLine istead of a FB in the later rounds.

I'm not saying that Rogers isn't good, I'm just saying we could've drafted a corner with 25 and gotten a guy that could come in and start and do a good job too AND gotten Mike Williams, the perfect compliment to Sanatana Moss.

no thanks, I'm glad we didn't draft desmond II...

Rogers was the pick to make there

Great Natale wrote:
crazyhorse1 wrote:if I hear that crap about defenses winning championships one more time, I'm going to search out the speaker and send him to college. Anyone who believes such a damn fool thing ought to check out our record last year.

I agree. But your defensive can't just stink. I firmly believe that a potent offense and a respectfull defense is much better than a mediocre offense and an awesome defense.

Who would you rather be the Colts or the Ravens? That is a retorical question!

Rhetorical or not, the Ravens won the superbowl...

spudstr04 wrote:we needed another WR because we don't know how long Moss is going to hold out and we also needed a DT or DE to help with the pass rusher..why the hell did we get 2 FB in the late rounds when we could've picked up a decent DT to help us out????

Jansen said Moss will probably get an extension in the next week or two...

Redskin in Canada wrote:
joebagadonuts wrote:one could look at it this way;

first, a high quality corner will allow the dline more time to get to the qb.

One could ALSO look at it this way:

A high quality DE will force the opposing QB to have less time to beat the corner.

Very true RIC, and I'm definitely one of those guys that would rather have a stud DE rather than a stud CB. Problem is, there were 2-3 stud CBs in the draft, and I would argue, that there weren't any stud DE's...

vtfootball07 · Post by **vtfootball07** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:51 pm

The problem is that we desperately needed a CB in the draft. Our depth (even though I know I'm leaving people out and who) was Springs, Harris, and Wilds going into the draft. We needed another quality corner that could push Wilds and Harris into the Nickleback role. We have a D-line that manages decently. GW's system allowed for lots of QB pressure. This article acts as if the Skins shouldn't have picked up McCune. And then they made the comment about the Skins not having any starters drafted below the 120th pick. First, Brady is one of the best late-round picks EVER, and Gibbs wasn't around in the past 7 drafts to find hidden talent in the late rounds. This writing is of lesser quality than that of a 3rd grader...

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:31 pm

Mike Williams spent a year out of football because (I assume, prehaps wrongly) he wasn't able to enter the draft for the same reasons Clarett wasn't. That sticks out like a sore thumb, to me.
We couldn't afford that guy. All Harrington has now is maybe the most talented seventeen receiver set in football.
Everybody seems to miss that we, as fans, were big on Rolle for the #9 pick. He's a CB, right ?
We got one who is roughly the same size, with surer hands and an ability to get after the passer. We didn't have all that with Smootie, but we do now.
Mostly, what you have is a bunch of sportswriters who are running out of bad things to say.
I imagine that if we'd made the big splash and drafted Williams, the pundits would all be saying, "Now, all the Redskins have to do is pay him".
It never ends, kids. Until we win again, it will go on and on.
The important thing is, that we stand with our team. If you're like me, you have no choice but to live with what we've done. Switching teams is not an option.
Our most glaring need (if we can call it that) is a little speed at DE to aid in pass rush. Otherwise, I think we're pretty okay. My feeling is that Patten will be the second coming of Ellard.
We're cool. Don't worry.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:35 pm

kspeed10 wrote:Skip Bayless said on Cold Pizza this morning that the Redskins were winners in the draft because they got a "shut down" corner and the best quarterback in the draft in his opinion.

Skip Bayless obviously doesn't know the Redskins or their needs and he doesn't seem to understand that there is no such thing as a "shut down" corner. The Redskins defense is a system defense and it is designed to get guys to play to their strengths. We could've drafted Mike Williams and significantly improved our 30th ranked offense and then drafted a corner that would play well in Greg Williams' system.

Campbell has many flaws that Bayless apparently overlooked and I don't know that he understands that if Ramsey has a good season, and he will, that he will be the man in DC for several years to come and Campbell will be nothing but a clip board holder.

The skins missed the opportunity to draft an impact player on offense and for some reason, Skip Bayless overlooked this point.

Right now we have three QBs on the team, Ramsey, Brunell, and Campbell (Hasselbeck is gone). This is Brunell's last season with the team. Depending on the season Ramsey has this year, it could possibly be his last year with the team. If he does well, great! re-sign him. If he does poorly, he is also out the door after this season. That would leave us only with Campbell, who will at least have a year under his belt in the system. If we don't make this move, and Ramsey struggles or gets injured, we are starting a rookie, or bringing in yet another has-been veteran QB. You really need 2 QBs these days. I now realize it would have been foolish not to draft a QB you think can be ready to go in one or two years.

kspeed10 · Post by **kspeed10** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:01 pm

Another problem with having all three of these guys as our QB core is their price. We will now be paying all of our QB's starting QB salaries. If we really needed a QB, we could've drafted one in the lower rounds (Kyle Orton, Stefan LeFors) who we wouldn't have to pay as much and who in two years, could also be a productive QB.

None of these guys have proven that they will be great NFL players, but we should've addressed more pressing needs for this season and it hurt watching us pass up Mike Williams who could come in and be a great receiver this season.

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:03 pm

The rookie is going to get a rookie contract. Either you already had the money to pay him or you didn't.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:06 pm

I wonder if there are any articles out there about Detroits by-passing their "need" for defensive help and taking another apparent #1 WR, which is a position that they're very deep at. I don't hear any rumblings from that camp about how pissed off they are because they took a WR when they already have Williams and that other guy.