Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:52 am

I think we could get a low first rounder for Sean Taylor or two late first rounders. For Moss, I think we could nab a late first rounder or a second rounder. I'm thinking Williams (9th) and Edwards (5th) and Heath Miller, or maybe Williams, Pollock, Matt Jones, and Carlos Rogers. Hummmmm. Okay. Let's do it!

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:58 am

I don't think missing a voluntary workout is reason to start talking about trading people. That said, it's disappointing that they would miss these workouts, especially Moss who is new to the team and needs to develop chemistry with Ramsey.

EasyMoney · Post by **EasyMoney** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:17 am

At least these guys are working out. Terrell Owens, Randy Moss and a lot of other players do their own thing in the offseason. It irritates their coaches but... they still come to play.

Worst case scenario with Taylor is he holds out. A second year player will never hold out but I've been wrong before. Gibbs will bench him if he keeps it up but I don't expect this to be a problem. I wouldn't worry about it.

Moss needs to relocate, he wants a new contract and there is probably a bunch of other behind the scenes things he needs to take care of.

These are football players but they're also people with different morals, egos, priorities and standards of living than the rest of us. You guys should expect things like this. No one can have a perfect team with perfect players. IMO there shouldn't be such a thing as "voluntary" workouts. Make them come when you want them to be there. Hopefully they will show up when they're supposed to. I'll get concerned with these two guys at that point.

VRIEL1 · Post by **VRIEL1** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:29 pm

SkinzCanes wrote:There is one common thread running through all of this: Drew Rosenhaus. Moss wants a new contract so this is a ploy by Rosenhaus to get him a long-term deal. Taylor's situation sounds similar to the TO situation now in Philly. Rosenhaus began representing both Taylor and Owens after they had signed their current contracts and therefore he doesn't het paid unless they sign new deals. So I'm guessing he sold both players on getting them new deals and that's why they both switched agents. And I'm sure that he's telling Moss, Taylor, and Owens that they best way to get their money is to play hardball.

FINES,FINES,FINES! I don't get it. Their not working for a fast food resturaunt...they are playing a game making millions of $$. If for no other reason they should be showing up because if the common person does not show up I belive it's grounds for termination. I know they are talented and could find another job elswhere so the next best thing is to fine the players for each day they miss if it's not pre-approved by the coaches.
They are under contract! This is all about $/and respect. They feel cheated by the $ amount and think they deserve the respect to get more $. Whatever happened to people being held accountable. They signed a contract. They should be respecting their current contract until it expires. Then soak the Redskins.
Finally I find it interesting how if a player feels he has been cheated they immediatly turn to the players association. I think the Owner should take it to the Owners association. Maybe they can decide on a decent punishment for not showing up under contract....perhaps jail time for not following through on a contract. Perhaps Grand Larceny for taking the money and not showing up.

hatsOFF2gibbs · Post by **hatsOFF2gibbs** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:42 pm

Wow!! What's up with SMoss? I thought he was going to be a pretty good player (personality wise)......Hopefully this is just something small. Remember...we shouldn't start blasting him before they actually get an interview with him. Remember the STaylor problem? He was pissed off because we took what the media said about him and starting unnecessary rumors about him? We ought to learn from that and hope that this was just a mistake and not done deliberately.

STaylor missing out on practice? I'm not too worried because he's a great player and doesn't need too much practice. BUT he's not going to be a "redskin" if he does stuff like this repeatedly. He'd be a bad impression for the skins...no one likes that.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:19 pm

Me-Shawn Johnson is also pulling the old, sit out of workouts for a better contract thing...its on ESPN.com i think these guys think this is the new way to renegotiate...by going on mini strike...me shawn is a punk

I think they should re-negotiate his deal....they should pay him less money. :lol:

hatsOFF2gibbs · Post by **hatsOFF2gibbs** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:28 pm

THE NEWS

Redskins' head coach Joe Gibbs called out wide receiver Santana Moss and safety Sean Taylor on Wednesday due to both players failing to take part in the voluntary offseason workout program. "Everybody should be here and it's very disappointing to us when they're not here," Gibbs told the Washington Post.

OUR VIEW

Moss' failure to appear is believed to be due to his desire for a new contract, which the Redskins and his agent are working on. Likewise, Taylor has asked team officials to restructure the contract he signed as a rookie last season.

http://www.fanball.com/fb/index.cfm

WHAT???? He already wants a new contract???

welch · Post by **welch** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:57 pm

I wouldn't be upset if either player was on the bench for the opener. We'd be good to go with Bowen, Lott, or Clark. We'll be just fine.

I suspect that Coach Gibbs is thinking the same thing.

And we have other receivers.

Do we need these guys to win? Does Taylor have the heart of Alvin Walton or Kenny Houston [we might need some history on Walton, but Houston is in the Hall of Fame]. Is Moss the equal to Gary Clark or Art Monk?

Grumble. Grumble.

Redskins4Life · Post by **Redskins4Life** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:14 pm

These guys seriously need to shutup and play football. I mean what is Taylor thinking? Maybe in Moss' situation I can understand, but Taylor signed a contract just last year and the Redskins agreed to renegotiate his contract so why the hell does he wanna holdout? Come on man, I wanna see you become another Ronnie Lott not a friggin team chemistry problem

VRIEL1 · Post by **VRIEL1** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:48 pm

WOW.....there's an echo.

Smithian · Post by **Smithian** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:54 pm

People forget...

Sean Taylor had a dirt cheap contract. I knew this was coming, personally. I think, though, we are blowing this out of proportion. Not like they're missing training camp.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:57 pm

Smithian wrote:People forget...

Sean Taylor had a dirt cheap contract. I knew this was coming, personally. I think, though, we are blowing this out of proportion. Not like they're missing training camp.

I don't think you could call it dirt cheap. He felt like he got jipped because his contract was slightly more incentive-based than KW2. But, KW2 got hurt and didn't meet any of his incentives. I'm pretty sure Taylor made more last year.

andyjens89 · Post by **andyjens89** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:59 pm

Taylor will still be a beast, he's prolly workin out on his own time, and Moss isnt gonna be less fast or not be able to catch a ball. I think we'll be fine

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:01 pm

andyjens89 wrote:Taylor will still be a beast, he's prolly workin out on his own time, and Moss isnt gonna be less fast or not be able to catch a ball. I think we'll be fine

It's all about team chemistry...

SirSmizzy · Post by **SirSmizzy** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:46 pm

Redskins | Gibbs Frustrated with Moss - from www.KFFL.com
Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:48:52 -0700

Jason La Canfora, of the Washington Post, reports Washington Redskins head coach Joe Gibbs is frustrated WR Santana Moss has not been regularly attending the team's offseason program. Gibbs believes Moss' absence is related to his desire to have a new contract.

Smithian · Post by **Smithian** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:07 pm

..Oh. My. God.

I clicked on this thinking someone with three posts decided to post this... But you did.

SirSmizzy · Post by **SirSmizzy** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:58 pm

Smithian wrote:..Oh. My. God.

I clicked on this thinking someone with three posts decided to post this... But you did.

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:35 pm

Smizzy, I'm going to merge your thread since there is already one about it.

hatsOFF2gibbs · Post by **hatsOFF2gibbs** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:44 pm

Thomas Says Moss Will Arrive in Prime Condition
Newly Acquired Wide Receiver 'Is Going to Like It Here'

By Jason La Canfora
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 8, 2005; Page D03

Although wide receiver Santana Moss, the cornerstone acquisition of the Washington Redskins' offseason, is not participating in voluntary workout sessions, at least one of his new teammates is confident that when Moss does report, he will be in great shape. Right guard Randy Thomas, who played with Moss in New York, said the receiver is training diligently in Florida and expects big things from him.

The Redskins traded top wide receiver Laveranues Coles to the Jets, and took a $9 million salary cap hit in the process, to land Moss, who has yet to show up at Redskins Park as the third week of offseason work comes to a close. Although these workouts are voluntary, Moss's absence is unexcused and tied to Washington's inability to agree to a long-term contract with him, Coach Joe Gibbs said. Moss, 25, had one season worth $450,000 left on his current deal.

Safety Sean Taylor, 22, who is seeking to renegotiate his rookie contract, is also missing the sessions and both players are working out with other former University of Miami players in South Florida, according to teammates. Both players are represented by agent Drew Rosenhaus, who has declined to comment on either situation.

Thomas, who was a vocal proponent of shipping out Coles once he made his trade request, said he had a phone conversation with Moss a few weeks ago.

"I don't know what's behind it," Thomas said of Moss's absence, "but the guy he is . . . I guarantee you, he's working out. He's not going to be sitting around the house not doing anything. For whatever personal reasons -- we just don't know why -- he's not here. We'd like him to be here, but he's a Redskin, and I can't be sitting here asking why because he's my teammate.

"I just know this guy is going to like it here. He's going to want to be here. For whatever reasons he's not here -- I don't know -- I talked to him [last month] and he's an excited guy. He's excited to get away [from the Jets] and get a fresh start and take that role. We'll see what happens. You now how things are. I can't question a man's heart, I only question a guy who doesn't want to be here, and this guy is going to go fight for us."

Talks on a new deal have slowed and Moss has not been in the area since his introductory news conference, during which he stressed that he was a team-first player. The Redskins continue to work on a contract; Moss, who has one 1,000-yard season in four years, is seeking to be compensated among the top wide receivers in the game, sources said. Washington is about $1.5 million under the salary cap, must still sign draft picks, and anticipated trades and foreseeable cuts could free up another $2 million to $5 million. Based on Gibbs's recent comments on Taylor's contract status, the team does not seem inclined to make any significant alterations.

Despite the voluntary nature of these workouts, numerous players said they consider it part of their job responsibilities to be here. As Pro Bowl linebacker Marcus Washington put it: "It's pretty voluntary, like if your wife or girlfriend tells you . . . [not to] get her nothing for her birthday, and then if you don't come home with a present, you know you're in trouble. It's kind of like that."

Moss is supposed to be the focal point of an expanded offense after Washington ranked 30th in passing last season. The voluntary sessions are a time in which to learn the playbook and get in sync with the quarterbacks, who have been in meetings with coaches, running drills and throwing to receivers.

"If you want to be a Redskin, you might want to be here," backup quarterback Mark Brunell said.

Said starting quarterback Patrick Ramsey: "We're doing more than just playing catch. I don't know if chemistry is the word for it, but timing is one of the words you could use, and knowing what to expect from a receiver, and a receiver knowing what the quarterback is going to throw, where the ball is going to be, the velocity. This, as little as we are doing right now, is important, and what you do in March and April -- surprisingly enough -- really affects what happens come training camp."

Center Cory Raymer said it's difficult not to form an impression of a new teammate who is not present for his first workouts. "It's not a good start," he said. "We know who's here and who's not and we know who is here and just getting in and getting out as quick as they can."

Taylor drew attention last season for leaving a mandatory league rookie symposium without permission and being arrested on drunk driving charges -- he was suspended for one game and later acquitted.

"I would hope he would be here," said safety Matt Bowen, who started alongside Taylor before suffering a season-ending injury, "but it's up to each individual. It's not mandated by the league or anything. You have to want to be here, and if someone has a reason for not being here, I'm sure it's a good reason, but we'd like to have everyone here."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... 5Apr7.html
Randy makes it seem like it's not that bad. I'm still worried though.....hopefully SMoss will show up soon, bring STaylor with him, and start practicing WITH their team!!!!

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:08 pm

I don't think anyone is worried about him being out of shape. At least, I'm not. I'm worried about him catching passes from Ramsey as much as possible before the season.

njskinsfan · Post by **njskinsfan** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:37 pm

So I am guessing that if Rolle and Pac-Man are available we tell the Huricane to hit the road??

It looks like Pac-Man time !!!

Rosenhause is such a bung-wipe. He and the Poston's are the vulchers of the NFL.

I did like Cool

ey's comment like " I don't get it .. I just signed a contract last year also ... I thought I was supposed to honor that" ( I am paraphrasing of course)

welch · Post by **welch** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:15 am

Brunell

"If you want to be a Redskin, you might want to be here," backup quarterback Mark Brunell said.

Brunells's throwing is spotty, but you can't beat the quote. Or Ramsey's: we're not just playing catch.

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:39 am

man, every time Randy Thomas speaks, I love the guy more and more. He was one of the guys pushing getting Coles out of here? Wow, now that's a team guy. He really seems to love being a redskin and you just gotta love that!

I get the feeling he really thinks Moss will make a difference here. Sounds to me like he wants to box Moss' ears lol.

Isn't it amazing what a difference Gibbs has made in the short time he's been here? You can tell how all the guys want to be here as early as they can be and want the rest of their teammates to be here too. In the past players woulda been like, whatever, they'll get here when they get here. Now you got guys basically calling them out on it. Saying things like, well I don't know why he isn't here, but he needs to be.

Everything will be fine. If these guys come in, they do, if not, screw em. Moss is a blazer, but he aint gonna get top money from us. Taylor is a beast and he will be very good in this league, but if he thinks he's gonna sit out until he gets a new contract, then he's probably not gonna be playing much in his first few years...

We will be fine no matter what these two guys do. We happen to be loaded at WR and DB. I can't wait for football!!!

Manchester_Redskin · Post by **Manchester_Redskin** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:19 am

Quote from the Washington Post...

"The Redskins traded top wide receiver Laveranues Coles to the Jets, and took a $9 million salary cap hit in the process, to land Moss, who has yet to show up at Redskins Park as the third week of offseason work comes to a close. "

So, we trade a player that dosnt want to be here, for another player who is not showing much enthusism for being here, and take a $9 million hit on the salary cap in the process. How is that a good deal for us? Ok, the workouts are voluntary and may prove nothing about Moss's commitment to the team, but to my mind he has lost a great chance to show that he is a 'team player' and bond with the Redskins fans. These workouts are important, specially for new players. He's gonna have to rely on Ramsey to help him make the plays. If it were me then I'd haul my butt in there and get as much practice as possible. Seems we either going to have to pay him a large contract (and he hasnt proven thats he's worth that) or risk him holding out , in which case we end up with no replacement for Coles, for a $9 million hit.

I'm sorry but this deal is starting to suck.

Maybe we can offer Moss and Gardner and our #9 for a trade up and take Williams? can't see that that deal would be any worse than what we've already got here.

jklote · Post by **jklote** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:29 am

Manchester_Redskin wrote:Quote from the Washington Post...

"The Redskins traded top wide receiver Laveranues Coles to the Jets, and took a $9 million salary cap hit in the process, to land Moss, who has yet to show up at Redskins Park as the third week of offseason work comes to a close. "

So, we trade a player that dosnt want to be here, for another player who is not showing much enthusism for being here, and take a $9 million hit on the salary cap in the process. How is that a good deal for us? Ok, the workouts are voluntary and may prove nothing about Moss's commitment to the team, but to my mind he has lost a great chance to show that he is a 'team player' and bond with the Redskins fans. These workouts are important, specially for new players. He's gonna have to rely on Ramsey to help him make the plays. If it were me then I'd haul my butt in there and get as much practice as possible. Seems we either going to have to pay him a large contract (and he hasnt proven thats he's worth that) or risk him holding out , in which case we end up with no replacement for Coles, for a $9 million hit.

I'm sorry but this deal is starting to suck.

Maybe we can offer Moss and Gardner and our #9 for a trade up and take Williams? can't see that that deal would be any worse than what we've already got here.

Its a great deal as long as we dont resign Moss. Then we will be rid of two headcases.

The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts

Redskins | Gibbs Frustrated with Moss

This was a good deal?

Re: This was a good deal?