Help...I need a lawyer -UPDATE

DieselFan · Post by **DieselFan** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:37 pm

(update posted on page 3)

So, I'm traveling down I66 on Friday, just minding my own business...relatively traffic free. I had rented a Chevy Silverado to pick up a riding mower I had purchased (I live a couple of hours from Northern Virginia). I normally drive a piece of crap Ford Escort (good on gas) for my daily 30-40 minute commute. Well, obviously, I could easily go 30 mph over the speed limit and it would be tought to know by "feel"...there was no cruise control, I might add....Also, I have an unblemished driving record (no tix, no accidents...not even a parking ticket). I had driven in the right lane the vast majority of the time because I was worried about speed...I just got distracted because I was driving in an unfamiliar area and I was trying to pay attention to the exit signs.

So, to make a long story short, I go zooming by a state trooper at what he says was 89 MPH. And so he hits me w/a reckless driving ticket (he doesn't give a rip about my rental car defense). Now, I have to appear in Prince William County general district court.

I think I've got a valid enough defense to have the ticket knocked down to simple speeding or improper driving...but, I'm thinking I need some more help...anyone know any good lawyers in the area that handle that? Or better yet...got any experiences w/that court? Similar tickets? Anything...really...I'm grasping at straws...

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:47 pm

That sucks man. I have an idea where the cop must have been sitting because I've been pulled over in that stretch of 66 as well.

I've been to traffic court several times. I've won some and lost some, and specifically have dealt with this type of situation.

When I was a young dumb Marine, I decided it would be a good idea to go out in the field with my unit for a week, get home Saturday morning, pack and drive to Maryland, pick up my Dad, drive to Dover for a NASCAR race, drive back to Maryland to drop off my Dad and then drive to NOVA to visit my mother and then drive back to North Carolina with no sleep.

Made it to NC on rt 40 about an hour from home when I got pulled over. I was doing like 89 and the cop followed me for a good 3-5 miles with his lights on and siren blarring. I noticed him when he pulled up next to me and pulled over.

To make a long story sh...well, less long, I went to court and talked to the prosecutor. We reached an agreement, whereby I was charged with 10 over, paid the fine and court cost and didn't lose my license or have to go before the judge.

DieselFan · Post by **DieselFan** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:49 pm

JansenFan wrote:To make a long story sh...well, less long, I went to court and talked to the prosecutor. We reached an agreement, whereby I was charged with 10 over, paid the fine and court cost and didn't lose my license or have to go before the judge.

Hmmm...interesting...how did you find out who the prosecutor was? And yes...I have no idea where he popped out of...I was just minding my own business...happy as a clam that I wouldn't have to pushmow my 3/4 acre anymore.

tazlah · Post by **tazlah** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:55 pm

JansenFan wrote:That sucks man. I have an idea where the cop must have been sitting because I've been pulled over in that stretch of 66 as well.

Diesel -- sounds to me like you met JansenFan's personal police escort; I suspect he may have been waiting for JansenFan. A matter of wrong place, wrong time. Maybe your defense could be: "Your honor, it's a matter of mistaken identity; this officer was actually supposed to bust an aquaintence of mine whom he is quite familiar with..." :mrgreen:

Good luck.

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:02 pm

DieselFan wrote:
JansenFan wrote:To make a long story sh...well, less long, I went to court and talked to the prosecutor. We reached an agreement, whereby I was charged with 10 over, paid the fine and court cost and didn't lose my license or have to go before the judge.

Hmmm...interesting...how did you find out who the prosecutor was? And yes...I have no idea where he popped out of...I was just minding my own business...happy as a clam that I wouldn't have to pushmow my 3/4 acre anymore.

I showed up early and went into the courtroom. The prosecutor was there sitting at the table, so I just approached her and told her who I was, why I was there, and my mitigating circumstances (I was asleep sounds less official).

As long as there are a few DUI's, there should be a prosecutor there. Since it's Manassas, that should be a lock.

you could also try calling the clerk and see what options you have, since my example was in a different state and like 12 years ago (sheesh).

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:02 pm

I went years without a ticket until 5 years ago. I got three in the span of 4 months. One was a speeding ticket, one was running a red light, and the other was not making a complete stop at a stop sign. The red light was BS because I was making a right turn on red, but didn't make a complete stop. I can't remember the exact speed of my speeding ticket, but I was well over the limit.

My lawyer bailed me out of all of the tickets. It's like it never happened. I didn't even have to show up to court. I paid about $200 a pop for the stop sign and red light. I paid about $300 for the speeding ticket. I also had to go to a garage that was recommended by my lawyer to have my speedometer checked in regards to the speeding ticket. Of course they fixed my broken speedometer :wink:

.

I don't know any lawyers in your area, but take a good look before you make your choice. If you have any friends that used a particular lawyer, ask them what their fine or sentence was. A friend of mine got a speeding ticket and got a prayer for judgement, which meant he didn't get punished, but if he ever got another ticket, he would be held accountable for both. He should have called my lawyer because my tickets never happened.

washington53 · Post by **washington53** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:11 pm

Yo when is your trial date, because my dad is going to court the 19th i think because of the same reasons, he was going 55 on a 25 mph....

Justice Hog · Post by **Justice Hog** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:19 pm

Try to do a little research first. Look up what constitutes "reckless driving" in that jurisdiction. On the surface, it sounds like a bunch of over-charging to me. For example, in Delaware, reckless driving is defined as: "driving a vehicle in wilful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property..."

Now, if you're going 89 mph in a 25 mph zone, he might have an argument. If you're going 89 in a 55, there is no way you would be convicted in Delaware for reckless driving...given the language of our statute.

In my opinion, the cop probably loaded you up so you would plead to the full 89 mph. Frankly, even without an attorney, I think you will probably be successful in appearing in Court and pleading to a lesser speeding offense.

If you were going 89-55 (34 mph over), walk in and offer to plead guilty to 19 over. You may walk away with that. Frankly, you probably shouldn't hope for much better. If the speed limit was 65 (24 mph over), offer to plead guilty to 14 over.

It's a traffic offense...and a loaded up one at that. I bet the prosecutor will let you do the speeding plea as I suggested.

Caveat: This should not be considered "legal advice"....just "friendly advice" from one person to another.

washington53 · Post by **washington53** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:54 pm

Yeah and one more note following Justice Hog's... Atleast plead guilty, and tell them since you record has been clean all your life they should take the points off your insurance, because if they dont your insurance will go into the skys

Hogfather · Post by **Hogfather** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:55 pm

I've been told if you have oversized tires on your truck or SUV, it can drastically throw of your speedometer reading (you'd be going faster than it would read). The chances of a rental with oversized tires are slim, but I thought I would just throw that out there.

Good Luck

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:16 pm

JH they will give you a reckless driving charge easily in VA and it doesn't have to be a ridiculous amount over either. I've seen alot people get them for what seems silly. I would go with contacting the State's Attorney, but I've heard you don't have to wait until prior to court to do so. I also would pray that the cop doesn't show if you go to court. I've heard alot of that happening as well. Either way good luck.

skinz74 · Post by **skinz74** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:42 pm

I have 23" rims on my Harley F150 and it does screw with the speedometer. I was clocked in the "not so great state" of S.C. doing 89mph, even though my speedometer read 80. The speed limit was 70mph. Most people I think do around 10 over on a interstate. But since I was out of state, and fleeing a Hurricane, I was not about to drive back up to fight it...and the offending officer knew it. :twisted:

Wysocki · Post by **Wysocki** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:39 pm

I was pulled over for speeding twice in SC, and as an out-of-stater, both times I had to pay the fine to the officer "right then and there"...

BossHog · Post by **BossHog** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:08 am

Just a Canadian two cents here that likely mean nothing to your case, but I offer it as 'experience' regardless.

I've been to traffic court a coupla times... and EVERY SINGLE TIME i witnessed the exact same thing...

IF YOU SHOW UP TO FIGHT THE CHARGE WITH ANY EXCUSE... you'll be rewarded in some small way... lessening of fine, time to pay, lowering the 'charge'. Case in point, the last time I was there was because I forgot to renew my licence on my birthday :oops:

because I hadn't renewed my licence, I was technically driving without one. When I went to court, i didn't tell the judge anything except that I had just forgotten and had since renewed my licence... the judge cut the fine by 2/3 and gave me 6 months TTP... no questions asked.

The guy before me told such a bold-faced lie that me and the guy beside me had to be 'hushed' because we were laughing so hard... he was using the old 'speedometer' was broken story... and it worked... well, sort of. like I said, we were laughing because it was such a blatant lie... the judge seemed to know it too... but he still SLASHED his fine and gave him TTP.

This seems to be a pattern that I have observed EVERY time I was there. Now I have no idea if it's the same there as it is here, but if so, my recommendation would be to just do a bit of homework... represent yourself... and cry a river when you're in front of the judge.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:23 am

BossHog wrote:IF YOU SHOW UP TO FIGHT THE CHARGE WITH ANY EXCUSE... you'll be rewarded in some small way...

he speaks the truth...

I've been to court twice here in VA... and both times I fought it... both times they just plee bargined it down to lesser offenses...

I got a "hit & run" reduced to "improper driving"...

and a "50 in a 35" reduced to "44 in a 35"... the lowest fine they could give...

just show up to fight it... you "should" get it reduced...

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:10 am

JH, in both VA and NC, anytime your vehicle exceeds 85 it is reckless driving regardless of the speed limit.

Trust me on this. :oops:

DieselFan · Post by **DieselFan** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:37 am

Thanks for the info, guys...keep the insights coming...its at least making me feel a bit more prepared for my court date. Someone asked earlier...my court date is may 4th...in manassas.

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:41 am

I might see you there... :lol:

Actually mine's in Rappahannock County. New trainee pulled me over and actually gave me a ticket. Usually up here, if you are from this county you get a please drive careful....even when you run a cop off the road. :shock:

DieselFan · Post by **DieselFan** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:04 am

The cop that pulled me over was a total ass. I did some research on him...and he's a rookie. Out to prove to the veteran's that his bojangles are just as big a theirs. I mean, he really could have reduced the ticket on the spot and allowed me to just pay it considering the circumstances.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:06 am

DieselFan wrote:Thanks for the info, guys...keep the insights coming...its at least making me feel a bit more prepared for my court date. Someone asked earlier...my court date is may 4th...in manassas.

That's where I got both my tickets reduced... just say the officer told me one limit and he gave me a ticket for another... it's your word against his and he most likely won't be there.... this is how I got my 50 reduced to 44 in a 35....

There not gonna want to go to court for that and since it is your first offense... they'll likely reduce it below reckless... My 2 cents

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:12 am

uhhhhh BTP!. If the cop doesn't show.....you are supposed to plead not guilty. Then they drop the charges because there is no one to oppose you. Then you don't have to pay anything.

Justice Hog · Post by **Justice Hog** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:36 pm

DieselFan wrote:The I did some research on him...and he's a rookie.

Why am I not surprised?

welch · Post by **welch** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:18 pm

uhhhhh BTP!. If the cop doesn't show.....you are supposed to plead not guilty.

That's the one sure-fire winner.

My own experience in New York City traffic court was completely different than Boss's. I think they must have unusually tolerant judges in (western?) Ontario. My judge was exactly like the late, lamented, and splendid Jerry Orbach charcter, Lenny Brisco on Law & Order.

I listened to other drivers give some of the lamest, most laughably dopey defenses. I was living near Grant's Tomb, where Riverside Drive, a four-lane road that trails along Riverside Park and where no one does more than 30, where RSD runs along a viaduct for about a half mile. The NYPD had stationed an officer on the viaduct, and my own dispute about the meaning of a traffic sign was mixed in with these speeding clowns.

One guy said that he thought the Drive had become a state highway for ten blocks, so he felt justified in jacking his speed up to 70 miles an hour. "Ah, yes," said the judge. "You're telling me that a half-mile stretch of Manhattan is really an extension of the New York State Thru-way...that's your defense???"

Another guy said that he had to speed up to 65 just to merge in with the high-speed traffic. The judge started laughing. "So you're doing a highway merge onto Riverside Drive? One minute you're on the Garden State Parkway and the next minute there's a rip in the space-time continuum...lo and behold, you're on Riverside instead of the Tappan Zee Bridge? Did you learn that defense on Star Trek?"

The judge would stop some drivers, saying, "Hold on...you're talking to me like I'm an idiot, because only an idiot would believe that. We're too busy for this."

I think the drivers with the silly excuses got the maximum fines.

(Me? The officer had "mislaid" all his records for that day, so the judge threw the case out. I would have won, though, but that's another story.)

I know, this is not encouraging, but I think the best strategy is to go to court, explain how you came to be going much faster than you had intended, point to your record...and hope.

DieselFan · Post by **DieselFan** » Thu May 05, 2005 10:14 am

UPDATE: I owe a beer to JansenFan for the advice to talk to the prosecutor before hand. Basically, based on that information (which never would have occurred to me unless you mentioned it), I emailed the court back and forth to determine who was prosecuting that day and arranged an appointment.

I decided to not get an attorney because I was quoted anywhere from $700 to $1,000...which I thought was a bit ridiculous. So, I showed up to the court house early, dressed respectably in a nice suit of course, and actually ran into the police officer that pulled me over. I introduced myself and was cordial and told him that I was hoping to meet w/the prosecutor in advance and work something out.

Well, the police officer met w/the prosecutor before I did and (I'm assuming) went over all of the cases before hand. So I waited patiently for her to come out and once she did I introduced myself and reminded her of our meeting and she said "Don't worry about it, I've spoken w/the officer and we're going to file a motion to dismiss all charges, pending completion of a driver course."....

SSSSSWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEET! Basically, that was better than my best case scenario.

So, if this ever happens to anyone...here's the best tip: be diligent and try to arrange a meeting w/the prosecutor. be cordial at all times, dress nicely and good luck.

Again, JansenFan...I owe you one.

Justice Hog · Post by **Justice Hog** » Thu May 05, 2005 1:06 pm

Congrats...but be forewarned all of you, many prosecutors that handle misdemeanor and traffic cases have very full calendars and most of them (I think) probably will not have the opportunity to sit down and talk with you prior to actual plea dicussions. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try, though.....just don't expect the same results as DieselFan.

Congrats to you, DieselFan, however.