Whose Call Is It ?

[cvillehog]

* More than 800 million people go to bed hungry every day...300 million are children.
* Of these 300 million children, only eight percent are victims of famine or other emergency situations. More than 90 percent are suffering long-term malnourishment and micronutrient deficiency.
* Every 3.6 seconds another person dies of starvation and the large majority are children under the age of 5.

http://www.unmillenniumproject.org/facts/index.htm

[Brandon777]

It's too bad they don't live in Texas.

With the cap on malpractice awards and the Futile Care Act (which Bush signed into law), the state would've pulled the plug on her long ago and all of this misery would be over.

just stop cville... it's no use. some don't know when they are beat.

It sounds to me that liberals don't know when they're beat.

President=republican
House= republican
senate= republican

[cvillehog]

It's too bad they don't live in Texas.

With the cap on malpractice awards and the Futile Care Act (which Bush signed into law), the state would've pulled the plug on her long ago and all of this misery would be over.

just stop cville... it's no use. some don't know when they are beat.

It sounds to me that liberals don't know when they're beat.

President=republican
House= republican
senate= republican

Way to dodge the issue.

What about the lies and misinformation in your posts?

[Brandon777]

It's too bad they don't live in Texas.

With the cap on malpractice awards and the Futile Care Act (which Bush signed into law), the state would've pulled the plug on her long ago and all of this misery would be over.

just stop cville... it's no use. some don't know when they are beat.

It sounds to me that liberals don't know when they're beat.

President=republican
House= republican
senate= republican

Way to dodge the issue.

What about the lies and misinformation in your posts?

You liberals are all the same. When beaten, you throw out your favorite word "lies". Don't worry cville, you'll get your wish. Terri will die soon.

[cvillehog]

It's too bad they don't live in Texas.

With the cap on malpractice awards and the Futile Care Act (which Bush signed into law), the state would've pulled the plug on her long ago and all of this misery would be over.

just stop cville... it's no use. some don't know when they are beat.

It sounds to me that liberals don't know when they're beat.

President=republican
House= republican
senate= republican

Way to dodge the issue.

What about the lies and misinformation in your posts?

You liberals are all the same. When beaten, you throw out your favorite word "lies". Don't worry cville, you'll get your wish. Terri will die soon.

I've posted link after link and fact after fact refuting the lies that you have told, and you have yet to respond.

You are in over your head yet again, buddy.

[NikiH]

Wow this thread has gone down hill. It'd be nice if everyone could disagree like adults. No one here had the right to decide this woman's fate, it was intended I believe to open adult conversation about a serious topic, maybe we cannot handle that around here.

[cvillehog]

Wow this thread has gone down hill. It'd be nice if everyone could disagree like adults. No one here had the right to decide this woman's fate, it was intended I believe to open adult conversation about a serious topic, maybe we cannot handle that around here.

We were having a perfectly good conversation before Brandon decided to try to play with the adults.

[patjam77]

Wow this thread has gone down hill. It'd be nice if everyone could disagree like adults. No one here had the right to decide this woman's fate, it was intended I believe to open adult conversation about a serious topic, maybe we cannot handle that around here.

other than my earlier "surplus" post which deviated from the topic... everyone has acted like an adult save for one. and if you want proof, go check the smack forum for who isn't acting very mature.

[Brandon777]

Wow this thread has gone down hill. It'd be nice if everyone could disagree like adults. No one here had the right to decide this woman's fate, it was intended I believe to open adult conversation about a serious topic, maybe we cannot handle that around here.

We were having a perfectly good conversation before Brandon decided to try to play with the adults.

No cville. This debate was going fine until you called my posts ignorant without proving my posts wrong. If you disagree, that is fine, but calling the posts ignorant without facts is crossing the line.

I read in a post that you want me to admit I was wrong about a Dr. that has been nominated for a Nobel Prize. Well, I'm going by what I've heard, just like you are going by what you have heard in regards to Terri. If that is false, then I'll concede, because I don't know the Dr. personally and have never met him, so I'll hold off on my judgement until it is proven he is not qualified to give an opinion. The only people I've seen on the news that has tried to discredit him are liberals, so that shows me you are pulling parts of your argument from a biased source.

However if you want me to concede to the that, you will have to admit that you were wrong about startle reflex, which was your main rebuttal to my argument.

[cvillehog]

No, read the links that i have posted over and over, starting with this information about your precious doctor: http://mediamatters.org/items/200503220009

Go back and read all of my posts in this tread. I have discredited every argument that you made that wasn't a subjective issue.

Nobel selection process:

The process of selecting a winner of the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine starts in September, about a year before the prize announcement. At this time, the prize-awarder in Stockholm (The Nobel Assembly at Karolinska Institutet) sends out invitations to about 3,000 people who are allowed to propose winners. These are mainly members of the Nobel Assembly, previous prize winners, and a selection of professors at universities around the world.

Source: http://nobelprize.org/medicine/nomination/index.html

[Brandon777]

No, read the links that i have posted over and over, starting with this information about your precious doctor: http://mediamatters.org/items/200503220009

I'm not familiar with mediamatters. I don't know how credible they are, considering that I went there and they are slamming republicans. You also make it sound like I have made this doctor my main focus to support my argument. I haven't. He was secondary.

Go back and read all of my posts in this tread. I have discredited every argument that you made that wasn't a subjective issue.

No you haven't. You still can't admit that your rebuttal "startle reflex" back fired in your face.

Nobel selection process:

The process of selecting a winner of the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine starts in September, about a year before the prize announcement. At this time, the prize-awarder in Stockholm (The Nobel Assembly at Karolinska Institutet) sends out invitations to about 3,000 people who are allowed to propose winners. These are mainly members of the Nobel Assembly, previous prize winners, and a selection of professors at universities around the world.

Again, so what? If the doctor is not qualified it doesn't change anything. Like I said, I've only seen liberal sources trying to discredit him. I did not tout him to be the back bone of my argument.

[cvillehog]

For you Brandon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

It's possible to get information from a variety of sources and form them into an opinion all your own. You don't have to just regurgitate Fox News talking points.

All the credible doctors who have actually physically examined Mrs. Schaivo (as opposed to watching a 5-year-old tape), have said that the "signs of life" that she shows are the result of various reflexive movements, including the smile and startle reflex as well as others. All the credible doctors who have actually examined Mrs. Schaivo have agreed that her brain has experienced significant shrinkage, and her EEG is flat. See my previous post quoting one such doctor appointed by the courts.

[Brandon777]

For you Brandon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

It's possible to get information from a variety of sources and form them into an opinion all your own. You don't have to just regurgitate Fox News talking points.

Still dodging the "startle reflex" issue.

[cvillehog]

For you Brandon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

It's possible to get information from a variety of sources and form them into an opinion all your own. You don't have to just regurgitate Fox News talking points.

Still dodging the "startle reflex" issue.

I have edited my post, please see above.

You are still dodging all the statements you have made which I have shown to be misinformation.

You have demonstrated an inability to understand the fundamental issues in this matter.

I am done with you.

Your entire position on this matter revolves around calling the husband an evil man.

[Brandon777]

For you Brandon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

It's possible to get information from a variety of sources and form them into an opinion all your own. You don't have to just regurgitate Fox News talking points.

Still dodging the "startle reflex" issue.

I have edited my post, please see above.

You are still dodging all the statements you have made which I have shown to be misinformation.

You have demonstrated an inability to understand the fundamental issues in this matter.

I am done with you.

That's what I thought. Take your little toady patjam the eagles phan with you.

[patjam77]

For you Brandon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

It's possible to get information from a variety of sources and form them into an opinion all your own. You don't have to just regurgitate Fox News talking points.

Still dodging the "startle reflex" issue.

I have edited my post, please see above.

You are still dodging all the statements you have made which I have shown to be misinformation.

You have demonstrated an inability to understand the fundamental issues in this matter.

I am done with you.

That's what I thought. Take your little toady patjam the eagles phan with you.

GO EAGLES!!!!!!

[Brandon777]

For you Brandon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

It's possible to get information from a variety of sources and form them into an opinion all your own. You don't have to just regurgitate Fox News talking points.

Still dodging the "startle reflex" issue.

I have edited my post, please see above.

You are still dodging all the statements you have made which I have shown to be misinformation.

You have demonstrated an inability to understand the fundamental issues in this matter.

I am done with you.

That's what I thought. Take your little toady patjam the eagles phan with you.

GO EAGLES!!!!!!

I guess you and cville have kissed and made up.

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

[patjam77]

you got me... later.

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

Looks like the courts had the final decision.

Terri died of starvation and dehydration this morning.

R.I.P. Terri Schiavo

[hailskins666]

whatever. i feel better that i'm not helping foot the medicare bill through my taxes. now pull the rest of em. you know she isn't the only one.

[joebagadonuts]

Still dodging the "startle reflex" issue.

Startle Reflex

Neuro term. 1. A sudden, involuntary movement made in response to a touch, an unexpected motion, or a loud noise. 2. A set of automatic protective movements designed to withdraw the body and its parts from harm.
Usage: Many defensive postures and submissive gestures (e.g., diverse movements of the shoulder-shrug display) derive from paleocircuits of the mammalian startle. Its status as a reflex explains why human beings (in all cultures) a. blink and grimace; b. flex the neck, elbows, trunk, and knees; and c. elevate the shoulders when feeling physically, emotionally, or socially threatened (Andermann and Andermann 1992:498).
Media. Eccentric twisting, plunging, blinking, and flexing spasms made from 1989-98 by Seinfeld TV character, Cosmo Kramer are typical of people with an exaggerated startle response. Increasing with anxiety and fatigue, the startle underlies such culturally recognized "startle syndromes" as Indonesian latah, Japanese imu, and Lapland's Lapp panic (Joseph and Saint-Hilaire 1992:487-8.
RESEARCH REPORTS: The startle reflex is related to the Moro or "clamping" reflex of young primates, which includes a. arm, leg, and spinal-column extension movements; b. head bowing (over the chest); and c. crying (McGraw 1943:19). Present in the human fetus after 30 weeks, the startle is predominantly a flexor reflex, possibly rooted in the primitive orienting response (Joseph and Saint-Hilaire 1992:487).
Neuro-notes. Sudden movements, looming objects, or bright lights trigger midbrain optic centers which automatically turn our faces and eyes toward what could be dangerous--before the forebrain knows, on a conscious level, danger even exists. The midbrain's auditory lobes, meanwhile, are reflexively attuned to changes in sound. Located just below the optic-center lobes, these pea-sized areas control our auditory startle. Picked up by the cochlear nucleus, a scream received by the auditory lobes triggers the amygdala and circuits of the reticulospinal tract to activate the startle. Thus, recoiling from a karate yell, e.g., is a primal response prompted by paleocircuits of the amphibian brain.
See also CHATTERING TEETH, FLEXION WITHDRAWAL.

in·vol·un·tar·y (n-vln-tr)
adj.

Not subject to control of the volition.
Acting or done without or against one's will.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=involuntary

The cerebral cortex is a brain structure in vertebrates, including humans. It is the outermost layer of the cerebrum and has a grey color. The human cerebral cortex is 2-4 mm (0.08-0.16 inches) thick and is highly folded.

In the "higher" animals (especially the higher mammals), the surface of the cerebral cortex becomes folded. This creates grooves on the surface of the brain called "sulci" (singular = "sulcus"). The bumps or ridges on the surface of the brain are called "gyri" (singular = "gyrus"). The folding of the cortex increases the cortical surface area. The cerebral cortex, made up of four lobes, is involved in many complex brain functions including memory, perceptual awareness, "thinking", language and consciousness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_cortex

The brain stem carries out for the face the functions that the spinal cord carries out for the body. It receives sensory information from all senses (except olfaction [smell]) from the face, controls the muscles for the face, and organizes reflexes involving the face. Sensory pathways from the spinal cord to the cerebral hemispheres and motor pathways from the cerebral hemispheres to the spinal cord pass through it.

The brain stem also organizes many of the vital reflexes that manage the internal organs of the body, including heart beat, blood pressure, swallowing, stomach activity, etc. Because these reflex centers are located in the lower brain stem just inside the base of the skull, a sharp blow to the base of the skull can kill by disrupting these reflexes.

In addition, the brain stem has extra, specialized functions. It organizes complex reactions and co-ordinates many different reflexes, so that they work together smoothly. Examples of complex reflex reactions organized in the brain stem are the startle reflex and various balance reflexes. Many things, such as an loud sound, an unexpected touch or sound, etc., can elicit it. A startle reflex involves most of the body: the body, arms, and legs partially flex, neck jerks back, and the face shows a startled expression (partially opened mouth, eyes widened, etc.).

http://www.indiana.edu/~p1013447/dictionary/br_stem.htm


if i may speak for cville, it appears as if he's arguing that because terry's cerebral cortex (the part of the brain that is reponsible for thinking and awareness) had turned to liquid, she is brain dead; a permanent cessaction of brain activity. furthermore, just because the brain stem (the part of the brain that controls reflecive movements, including the 'startle reflex') was fully or partially functioning, this does not mean that terry was conscious in any way.

perhaps now we can put this 'startle reflex' issue to bed.

[BossHog]

Nice post joe.

I think we should put it to bed now, it's a dead issue. :-"

[Brandon777]

Still dodging the "startle reflex" issue.

Startle Reflex

Neuro term. 1. A sudden, involuntary movement made in response to a touch, an unexpected motion, or a loud noise. 2. A set of automatic protective movements designed to withdraw the body and its parts from harm.
Usage: Many defensive postures and submissive gestures (e.g., diverse movements of the shoulder-shrug display) derive from paleocircuits of the mammalian startle. Its status as a reflex explains why human beings (in all cultures) a. blink and grimace; b. flex the neck, elbows, trunk, and knees; and c. elevate the shoulders when feeling physically, emotionally, or socially threatened (Andermann and Andermann 1992:498).
Media. Eccentric twisting, plunging, blinking, and flexing spasms made from 1989-98 by Seinfeld TV character, Cosmo Kramer are typical of people with an exaggerated startle response. Increasing with anxiety and fatigue, the startle underlies such culturally recognized "startle syndromes" as Indonesian latah, Japanese imu, and Lapland's Lapp panic (Joseph and Saint-Hilaire 1992:487-8.
RESEARCH REPORTS: The startle reflex is related to the Moro or "clamping" reflex of young primates, which includes a. arm, leg, and spinal-column extension movements; b. head bowing (over the chest); and c. crying (McGraw 1943:19). Present in the human fetus after 30 weeks, the startle is predominantly a flexor reflex, possibly rooted in the primitive orienting response (Joseph and Saint-Hilaire 1992:487).
Neuro-notes. Sudden movements, looming objects, or bright lights trigger midbrain optic centers which automatically turn our faces and eyes toward what could be dangerous--before the forebrain knows, on a conscious level, danger even exists. The midbrain's auditory lobes, meanwhile, are reflexively attuned to changes in sound. Located just below the optic-center lobes, these pea-sized areas control our auditory startle. Picked up by the cochlear nucleus, a scream received by the auditory lobes triggers the amygdala and circuits of the reticulospinal tract to activate the startle. Thus, recoiling from a karate yell, e.g., is a primal response prompted by paleocircuits of the amphibian brain.
See also CHATTERING TEETH, FLEXION WITHDRAWAL.

in·vol·un·tar·y (n-vln-tr)
adj.

Not subject to control of the volition.
Acting or done without or against one's will.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=involuntary

The cerebral cortex is a brain structure in vertebrates, including humans. It is the outermost layer of the cerebrum and has a grey color. The human cerebral cortex is 2-4 mm (0.08-0.16 inches) thick and is highly folded.

In the "higher" animals (especially the higher mammals), the surface of the cerebral cortex becomes folded. This creates grooves on the surface of the brain called "sulci" (singular = "sulcus"). The bumps or ridges on the surface of the brain are called "gyri" (singular = "gyrus"). The folding of the cortex increases the cortical surface area. The cerebral cortex, made up of four lobes, is involved in many complex brain functions including memory, perceptual awareness, "thinking", language and consciousness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_cortex

The brain stem carries out for the face the functions that the spinal cord carries out for the body. It receives sensory information from all senses (except olfaction [smell]) from the face, controls the muscles for the face, and organizes reflexes involving the face. Sensory pathways from the spinal cord to the cerebral hemispheres and motor pathways from the cerebral hemispheres to the spinal cord pass through it.

The brain stem also organizes many of the vital reflexes that manage the internal organs of the body, including heart beat, blood pressure, swallowing, stomach activity, etc. Because these reflex centers are located in the lower brain stem just inside the base of the skull, a sharp blow to the base of the skull can kill by disrupting these reflexes.

In addition, the brain stem has extra, specialized functions. It organizes complex reactions and co-ordinates many different reflexes, so that they work together smoothly. Examples of complex reflex reactions organized in the brain stem are the startle reflex and various balance reflexes. Many things, such as an loud sound, an unexpected touch or sound, etc., can elicit it. A startle reflex involves most of the body: the body, arms, and legs partially flex, neck jerks back, and the face shows a startled expression (partially opened mouth, eyes widened, etc.).

http://www.indiana.edu/~p1013447/dictionary/br_stem.htm


if i may speak for cville, it appears as if he's arguing that because terry's cerebral cortex (the part of the brain that is reponsible for thinking and awareness) had turned to liquid, she is brain dead; a permanent cessaction of brain activity. furthermore, just because the brain stem (the part of the brain that controls reflecive movements, including the 'startle reflex') was fully or partially functioning, this does not mean that terry was conscious in any way.

perhaps now we can put this 'startle reflex' issue to bed.

I guess it's me against all the liberals. The article to me shows that the brain is still functioning. She wasn't brain dead. Most newborn babies reactions are startle reflex. I never claimed that she could do voluntary actions, such as play patty-cake or jump rope. My argument was that she was like a newborn baby and not brain dead, which the article that I posted suggests. It doesn't matter anyways. You got your wish. She's dead. Let's move on.

[joebagadonuts]

how did i define myself as a liberal in my post? better yet, how did i argue for or against terri's death? all i did was present information, hopefully objectively as possible, and attempt to clarify ANOTHER POSTER'S argument, since you kept requesting it. you know nothing about my feelings on the matter, and your suggestion that i 'wished' her dead is insulting.

i understand you're position that she was not brain dead. however it appears as if the medical community ties activity in the cerebral cortex to the definition of brain death, and not involuntary reactions of the brain stem. the difference between terri and a newborn is that a newborn has activity in the cerebral cortex, and it is reasonable to assume, given that it is not liquid, that activity will continue, and increase. as i understand it, there was no hope of a restoration of brain activity in terri's cerebral cortex, due to the observation that it was liquid.

[welch]

Brandon wrote

I guess it's me against all the liberals.

I don't see this as "conservatives" against "liberals". And I could not possibly improve on Joe's explanations.