Smithian wrote: Can you give me an article saying all that and one not just saying Coles talked to Gibbs?
I don't have a link to an article... but this is something that I have been told. I'm not sure the person who told me would want it revealed, so I wont name any names, but I trust this 'source' and see nothing going on at Redskin Park that doesn't point to it's truth.
But I offer it only as one person's opinion and some information for you, not a stone cold fact.
Sean Taylor was one of a kind, may he rest in peace.
...and since this is BH's house, he's got no reason to BS you.
If he says Rod came to Joe and said, "I'm done here", I'll believe it.
After all, I saw a pic of Monk wearing a Hogs.net visor. He DOES talk to people.
"Sit back and watch the Redskins.
SOMETHING MAGICAL IS ABOUT TO BEGIN!"
JPFair- A fan's fan. RIP, brother
I just don't understand how you guys are so low on Rod. I mean his first four years he has been better in almost every statistical category than S. Moss. And that even counts dopped balls. Yes Rod dropped 2 more balls than Moss 9 vs 7 but percentage wise Moss dropped more! (8.5% Rod vs 9.0% for Moss) So maybe we should stop calling Gardner 50/50 and call him 91.5/8.5 which is his actual reception to drop statistics. And we can just call Moss "Drops more than Gardner" or "91/9" or "RG -.5%". The point here isn't to bash Moss, but to point out how insane some of the Gardner haters are here.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren
"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier
skinsfan#33 wrote:.. I just don't understand how you guys are so low on Rod...
We (I) are just disapointed in another #1 not being up to expectations. These are very important picks (the Celtics are still getting over Len Bias!) and we have had more than our share of under-performing picks. Maybe that's why so many coaches go with the proven players over the draft?
Hey! I'm not that "down" on Rod I just think that that #7 in 2010 might be all we can get BUT I'll take a pick or a player that wants to play over Rod. The more we can get the better BUT he's not going to be a Redskin.
Besides 50/50 is what it is!
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Lavar, C. Samuels, P. Ramsey, Sean Taylor, Champ Bailey (was good, then got us Clinton Portis)...
Just ask the Browns and you'll understand what disappointment is.
Anyway, Rod is a good receiver. Not great, but ok. I think we got a lot of good use for him. The offense was terrible last year and he still had decent stats.
At the NFL level, if the players aren't catching balls it is either because of the coaches or the crack cocaine IMO. And even the drugs didn't hurt Irvin on the cowpies.
skinsfan#33 wrote:Rod dropped 2 more balls than Moss 9 vs 7
9 Dropped balls? Are you talking about one game? I certainly think he dropped more than 9 balls (that he should have caught) last year. At any rate he dropped not only easy catches, but game breaking catches as well. He always seems to drop the most important ones.
FanofallthatisGibbs wrote:Our first round draft picks have worked out well.
Lavar, C. Samuels, P. Ramsey, Sean Taylor, Champ Bailey (was good, then got us Clinton Portis)...
The Champ pick was even better, because we traded down to get him, which is what eventually got us LaVar and Samuels. Thanks Ditka!
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
skinsfan#33 wrote:Rod dropped 2 more balls than Moss 9 vs 7
9 Dropped balls? Are you talking about one game? I certainly think he dropped more than 9 balls (that he should have caught) last year. At any rate he dropped not only easy catches, but game breaking catches as well. He always seems to drop the most important ones.
FanofallthatisGibbs wrote:Our first round draft picks have worked out well.
Lavar, C. Samuels, P. Ramsey, Sean Taylor, Champ Bailey (was good, then got us Clinton Portis)...
The Champ pick was even better, because we traded down to get him, which is what eventually got us LaVar and Samuels. Thanks Ditka!
That is 9 catchable balls as detirmined by STATS INC (the NFL Official stat source, so if you don't agree, take it up with them).
I remember him being the only thing that kept us in the first Cowboys game, but I also remeber him dropping a sure touchdown in the first Giants game that might have cost us the game. Of course if you're talking about important drops ey dropped one pass all year and it might have cost us a game (one of the Philly games I think), but I still love that rookie.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren
"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier
BossHog wrote:The story is that Gibbs told the team that anybody who didn't want to be a Redskin next year, should come and see him (at the end of last season). Two people came to see Gibbs -- Coles and Gardner.
Can you give me an article saying all that and one not just saying Coles talked to Gibbs?
Here you go, from today's Washington Post:
Gardner asked for a trade at the end of last season and was granted permission to speak to other teams.
skinsfan#33 wrote:Rod dropped 2 more balls than Moss 9 vs 7
9 Dropped balls? Are you talking about one game? I certainly think he dropped more than 9 balls (that he should have caught) last year. At any rate he dropped not only easy catches, but game breaking catches as well. He always seems to drop the most important ones.
FanofallthatisGibbs wrote:Our first round draft picks have worked out well.
Lavar, C. Samuels, P. Ramsey, Sean Taylor, Champ Bailey (was good, then got us Clinton Portis)...
The Champ pick was even better, because we traded down to get him, which is what eventually got us LaVar and Samuels. Thanks Ditka!
That is 9 catchable balls as detirmined by STATS INC (the NFL Official stat source, so if you don't agree, take it up with them). I remember him being the only thing that kept us in the first Cowboys game, but I also remeber him dropping a sure touchdown in the first Giants game that might have cost us the game. Of course if you're talking about important drops ey dropped one pass all year and it might have cost us a game (one of the Philly games I think), but I still love that rookie.
well apparently stats inc is not a very reliable source of information then, because I promise you there were a lot more than 9 passes lol. More like 29 really.
Hopefully anyone interested in gardner will go to the bargaining table using stats inc rather than actually watching game tapes
How about trading Gardner for another player like him...that is - came in with high hopes but didn't quite reach expectations with his drafted team?
Is there a CB, blocking TE, big WR, MLB or DE out there that anyone knows about?
I offer this up versus trading him for a draft pick. Many 4th round picks (which is what we'll probably get) are not always sure-fire things anyway. I know...Santana Moss is the perfect example but we gave up our #1 for him!!!
Smithian wrote:I meant to find something that said, "Gibbs told the them if they didn't want to be here next year, to talk to him."
And I told you, i don't have an article. You don't have to believe me... but I'm telling you... its true. The source is solid and as a former Redskin player... he has great insight into the situation.
While the Post article doesn't prove anything, "Gardner asked for a trade at the end of last season and was granted permission to speak to other teams" definitely implies that he request came on the heels of last season as opposed to in the offseason. Keep splitting that hair if you wish to, like I said, I trust the source and see absolutely nothing that indicates that it isn't 100% true.
Sean Taylor was one of a kind, may he rest in peace.
BossHog wrote: I trust the source and see absolutely nothing that indicates that it isn't 100% true.
Dan Patrick said before he says anything from a un named source he likes to have it Colaborated by another source.
1. BH's source said something......
2. Nothing has been stated to refute what was said by BH's source
3. Cole's comments kind of confirm what the source has said
4. The post article pretty much shows our this got to this point. ( which I don't think would have happen had the source been wrong.
5. If the info provided by the source was inaccurate Bosshog would have been the first to point that out. that's good enough for most of us
..__..
{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-
When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....
1niksder, surely you mean CORROBORATED not COLABORATED. The first one means: "To strengthen or support with other evidence; make more certain". The second: "To work together, especially in a joint intellectual effort".
skinsfan#33 wrote:Rod dropped 2 more balls than Moss 9 vs 7
9 Dropped balls? Are you talking about one game? I certainly think he dropped more than 9 balls (that he should have caught) last year. At any rate he dropped not only easy catches, but game breaking catches as well. He always seems to drop the most important ones.
FanofallthatisGibbs wrote:Our first round draft picks have worked out well.
Lavar, C. Samuels, P. Ramsey, Sean Taylor, Champ Bailey (was good, then got us Clinton Portis)...
The Champ pick was even better, because we traded down to get him, which is what eventually got us LaVar and Samuels. Thanks Ditka!
That is 9 catchable balls as detirmined by STATS INC (the NFL Official stat source, so if you don't agree, take it up with them). I remember him being the only thing that kept us in the first Cowboys game, but I also remeber him dropping a sure touchdown in the first Giants game that might have cost us the game. Of course if you're talking about important drops ey dropped one pass all year and it might have cost us a game (one of the Philly games I think), but I still love that rookie.
well apparently stats inc is not a very reliable source of information then, because I promise you there were a lot more than 9 passes lol. More like 29 really. Hopefully anyone interested in gardner will go to the bargaining table using stats inc rather than actually watching game tapes
Stats Inc is who the NFL trust and without looking at Gardner with Burgandy tinted glasses you would see that 9 drops is fairly acurate and 29 is just absurd. Also, trading Rod for anything less then a high 3rd rounder is just giving him away (I know most of you are fine with that idea, but it is time the Redskins start getting the proper value for their trades. Over the last few years we have gotten rualy screwed on value in trades. Even if a trade workes out and you still gave up too much, you still look like a chump and you didn't get a fair trade! We haven't had anything resembling a fair trade since Gibbs' first ride with the team and the last few years we have just been Chump City!)
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren
"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier
skinsfan#33 wrote:Rod dropped 2 more balls than Moss 9 vs 7
9 Dropped balls? Are you talking about one game? I certainly think he dropped more than 9 balls (that he should have caught) last year. At any rate he dropped not only easy catches, but game breaking catches as well. He always seems to drop the most important ones.
FanofallthatisGibbs wrote:Our first round draft picks have worked out well.
Lavar, C. Samuels, P. Ramsey, Sean Taylor, Champ Bailey (was good, then got us Clinton Portis)...
The Champ pick was even better, because we traded down to get him, which is what eventually got us LaVar and Samuels. Thanks Ditka!
That is 9 catchable balls as detirmined by STATS INC (the NFL Official stat source, so if you don't agree, take it up with them). I remember him being the only thing that kept us in the first Cowboys game, but I also remeber him dropping a sure touchdown in the first Giants game that might have cost us the game. Of course if you're talking about important drops ey dropped one pass all year and it might have cost us a game (one of the Philly games I think), but I still love that rookie.
well apparently stats inc is not a very reliable source of information then, because I promise you there were a lot more than 9 passes lol. More like 29 really. Hopefully anyone interested in gardner will go to the bargaining table using stats inc rather than actually watching game tapes
Stats Inc is who the NFL trust and without looking at Gardner with Burgandy tinted glasses you would see that 9 drops is fairly acurate and 29 is just absurd. Also, trading Rod for anything less then a high 3rd rounder is just giving him away (I know most of you are fine with that idea, but it is time the Redskins start getting the proper value for their trades. Over the last few years we have gotten rualy F@#ked on value in trades. Even if a trade workes out and you still gave up too much, you still look like a chump and you didn't get a fair trade! We haven't had anything resembling a fair trade since Gibbs' first ride with the team and the last few years we have just been Chump City!)
well you can blindly believe stats inc all you want. I watched every redskins game last year, and I KNOW for a fact that Rod dropped more than 9 balls. 29 is just a guestimation without going back and counting them, but it IS fairly accurate. That's Rods thing, he makes great catches and drops easy balls. We need the catches that should be caught to be caught. We don't need the fancy catches here and there. Rod is a drive killer.
I would be happy if they just cut Rod for two reasons. Obviously he kills drives and that's enough to go, but then the stuff comes out about him talking during the season about the offense being bad and not understanding why Joe is doing what he's doing? Uh, that's the kinda stuff that cancer people do. Rod is either turning into a cancer or he has been one all along. Either way, he must go. Regardless of what we get for him.
Stats inc is wrong, plain and simple. Throw in the balls that he could have caught but never even got close to and you really see a bad pattern developing...
well you can blindly believe stats inc all you want. I watched every redskins game last year, and I KNOW for a fact that Rod dropped more than 9 balls. 29 is just a guestimation without going back and counting them, but it IS fairly accurate. That's Rods thing, he makes great catches and drops easy balls. We need the catches that should be caught to be caught. We don't need the fancy catches here and there. Rod is a drive killer.
I would be happy if they just cut Rod for two reasons. Obviously he kills drives and that's enough to go, but then the stuff comes out about him talking during the season about the offense being bad and not understanding why Joe is doing what he's doing? Uh, that's the kinda stuff that cancer people do. Rod is either turning into a cancer or he has been one all along. Either way, he must go. Regardless of what we get for him.
Stats inc is wrong, plain and simple. Throw in the balls that he could have caught but never even got close to and you really see a bad pattern developing...
[/quote]
Gee, I never even watched a single game and have opions on Rod. Get real! I watched ever game except for the Chicago game (I was out to sea) and I'm here to tell you that 29 drops is just rediculous! I don't "blindly believe" STATS INC. What I do know is that many times a WR gets tagged with a "drop" by a fan if the ball is even anywhere near the player or he even touches the ball. If a WR is running flat out and the QB throws the ball high and behind and the WR makes a tremendous play by even getting a hand on the ball, the nuts in the stand go "He dropped it!" No it was not a "catchable ball". There is a big diference between not a catcthable ball and uncatchable. Uncatchable means that nobody could catch it under any condition. Not a catchable ball means that most receivers wouldn't have made the catch. I think that the other 20 drops you are guestimating fall into the not catchable category and you are looking at a ball that could have been caught if the player made an incredible play. Let me get this straight, Rod mis-plays a lot of balls and drops more than his fair share, but I also no that it is unrealistic to think that we would get anyone better with a 3rd round or lower draft pick.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren
"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier
Gee, I never even watched a single game and have opions on Rod. Get real! I watched ever game except for the Chicago game (I was out to sea) and I'm here to tell you that 29 drops is just rediculous! I don't "blindly believe" STATS INC. What I do know is that many times a WR gets tagged with a "drop" by a fan if the ball is even anywhere near the player or he even touches the ball. If a WR is running flat out and the QB throws the ball high and behind and the WR makes a tremendous play by even getting a hand on the ball, the nuts in the stand go "He dropped it!" No it was not a "catchable ball". There is a big diference between not a catcthable ball and uncatchable. Uncatchable means that nobody could catch it under any condition. Not a catchable ball means that most receivers wouldn't have made the catch. I think that the other 20 drops you are guestimating fall into the not catchable category and you are looking at a ball that could have been caught if the player made an incredible play. Let me get this straight, Rod mis-plays a lot of balls and drops more than his fair share, but I also no that it is unrealistic to think that we would get anyone better with a 3rd round or lower draft pick.
I'm talking balls that he should have caught. Not balls that hit him in the hands, or balls that were two feet away. I'm just saying he dropped a lot of balls that an above average receiver would have caught the majority of. Rod is a good receiver if you take away the dropped balls. He does all the other stuff pretty well. But IMO a receiver that catches the majority of balls thrown his way, can be lacking in the other skills and still be a better player for the team.
Add to that the perception of him being a cancer(with the talk of him and Coles brooding about their roles) and IMO it's better to get rid of him no matter what the compensation is. I'm not really worried about compensation, so what we would get in the 3rd round doesn't matter. I just really feel that somebody that hurts the team like I think Rod does should be let go.
We don't have to agree, neither one of us make the decisions. That's why we come here, to debate and talk about the team we all love.
I apologize for my tone in my other post. Musta been having a bad day....
All I can say my man, is that stats, inc. obviously has some sort of criteria for a catchable ball. It obviously doesn't jive with yours. That's cool. What it does mean is that the dropped catchable ball stat on Stats, Inc. can be realistically compared between players, so pick someone you thought didn't have many and compare the two.
Just don't be mad if I believe the official stats of the NFL - they actually get paid to analyze this stuff - over "I watched every game and without going back and counting, I think mine is more accurate".
RIP 21
"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru
I think we can all agree that Rod has not lived up to our expectations! At the same time he seems to have placed himself in a situation where it would seem likely that no matter what happens (or what Joe says!) he will not be here! I think Joe is trying to get the most for him and indicates he might keep him to try and help that thinking - IMO he will either be traded or at worst let go - Joe will not put up with that sort of action.
Now if the reported "dissention" is not true then we could see him on the team but I have a feeling there is too much water already under the bridge, and something will be worked out!
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Rod drops a few balls...nine seems about right to me; but nobody here seems to put his finger on the reason for many of the drops or why he disappears for long stretches. Both the drops and disappearances are due to the fact he can't get separation on a regular basis- his arms and hands are either partially jammed up or his body is twisted (drops) because of the defender or he's hopelessly covered (lack of speed). Either way, there's no real cure against a first class corner back. Not his fault. Go easy on the guy. He's maximized his talent. Have you?
ey dropped one pass all year and it might have cost us a game (one of the Philly games I think), but I still love that rookie.
That other player sounds like the immortal Freddie Mitchell.
