Gotta see this!

skinsfan1 · Post by **skinsfan1** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:58 pm

Just recieved this and thought to post it. It gives you reason to think.

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memor ... n.php#Main

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:15 pm

not saying its impossible, but how the hell do civilians know what a missile sounds like? also, would a single missile create that type of fireball upon impact. if so, where did flight 77 go?

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:38 pm

This really pisses me off. I mean how completely horrible for the families of the people who were on that flight that hit the Pentagon. And I'm with Hailskins the average Joe would probably describe the sounds of a plane crash as a missle. That doesn't meant that's what it was. Being in the local area I personally know two people who saw the plane flying low at that particular time. And I know a person who was inside the Pentagon at the time this happened. There is no doubt in my mind that it was exactly what it was.

This is BS. It's someone trying to get you to believe that everything in this world is a conspiricy. I'm pretty open minded but I'm not open minded enough to disregard the loss of life from that flight that hit the Pentagon. Talk to the family of the young school kids on that flight who'd won a contest and were on their way to a school related event. It's degrading to their memories.

skinsfan1 · Post by **skinsfan1** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:59 pm

I'm not trying to start anything just posted as a informational piece. Make you think one way or another. I'm in no way taking away from what happened. Just showing another point of view. I had not seen this and just wanted to share, so other people could form their own view.

tazlah · Post by **tazlah** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:01 pm

NikiH wrote:This really pisses me off. I mean how completely horrible for the families of the people who were on that flight that hit the Pentagon.

I am in full agreement with Niki. This is nothing but conspiracy propaganda on a website on the internet -- oh, well, therefore, it must be true! I believe there was a plane that crashed into the Pentagon. I also strongly suspect that the relatives of those who are never coming home because of that fateful day probably also believe a plane hit the Pentagon. My 2 cents

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:37 pm

1.) I can't believe you two would flip out over someone questioning your interpretation of events... be open minded for God's sake.

2.) This is great! I have a big paper due where I have to break down a conspracy theory website and critique it, thanks for doing about 25% of the project for me skinsfan1!!

skinsfan1 · Post by **skinsfan1** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:41 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:1.) I can't believe you two would flip out over someone questioning your interpretation of events... be open minded for God's sake.

2.) This is great! I have a big paper due where I have to break down a conspracy theory website and critique it, thanks for doing about 25% of the project for me skinsfan1!!

Glad to help.... :oops:

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:52 pm

Let me tell you some stories of the devastation in Manhattan some time.
Let me tell you about the families and bereaved, a full month after the attacks, still wandering around with glossy 8X10 headshots and thrusting them in my face, saying "Have you seen ____ ? He/she has been missing since the towers went down. He/she probably has amnesia, and is walking around looking for help... can you help me find him/her ?"
The denial that devastation brings is a powerful thing, and this video reeks of it.
Sorry. You put in your two cents, I put in mine.
My perspective is more "first person", though.

welch · Post by **welch** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:04 pm

1. I hate to step into these semi-political / semi-weird threads

2. I'm not sure what the video means, except that it tries to insist that an airliner did not hit the Pentagon.

3. If not, so what? Something blew a big hole in the Pentagon about 30 minutes after airliners hit both towers of the World Trade Center.

4. Most telling point against the "missle did it" theory:

if so, where did flight 77 go?

5. We know that Al Qaeda, an Islamic fundamentalist coalition made by Saudis (followers of bin Laden, trained by the CIA to drive the infidel Soviets from Afganistan) and Egyptions (the armed-struggle faction of the Muslim Brotherhood, who assasinated Sadat), moved 19 thugs into this country, got them false ID, trained some to fly (but not land) big airliners, high-jacked four airliners the morning of September 11, 2001, and observably used two of them as flying bombs to smash the WTC. A third crashed in Pennsylvania while flying on a path toward Washington. Does the video want us to believe that the Islamists (a) changed tactics and fired a missle at the Pentagon, and (b) caused the fourth airliner to evaporate somewhere over the Fairfax/Arlington area when it dropped below radar? As the video says, an airline crash makes a big hole, so where is it?

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:49 pm

Skinsfan I have every right to be pissed. Again I'll say it, there was a large group of CHILDREN on that plane. Their parents know that plane hit the Pentagon. And things like this has to make them feel horrible. How is it you can tell me how to react to this video? I think perhaps you should take the fact that someone is out there trying to make our country look like a huge group of bumbling idiots who follow what we're told a little more seriously.

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:32 am

I have no idea, one way or the other, of the firsthand or local impact of the Pentagon hit.
Lets just say that I am perfectly willing to blame it squarely on bin Laden.
Why not ?
Any video can be doctored to show what the filmer wants you to see.

Justice Hog · Post by **Justice Hog** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:23 am

Now...if the film clip ended with Flight 77 landing somewhere in Mexico, I'd bite. Otherwise, it' conspiracy garbage.

welch · Post by **welch** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:19 am

Now...if the film clip ended with Flight 77 landing somewhere in Mexico, I'd bite. Otherwise, it's conspiracy garbage.

Exactly, JH.

And bad conspiracy garbage, at that.

tazlah · Post by **tazlah** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:45 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:1.) I can't believe you two would flip out over someone questioning your interpretation of events... be open minded for God's sake.

Hardly a "flip-out". I am very open-minded -- and I expressed my opinion regarding the site -- Yeah, it made me think: I think it's bogus.

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:18 pm

Anybody care to argue that while she's holding the spear ?

joebagadonuts · Post by **joebagadonuts** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:52 pm

i saw part of a discovery channel special on this particular incident. they said that aircraft fuel burns so hot that most of the plane was obliterated on impact, and whatever remained was turned to ash in a matter of minutes.

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:03 pm

joe always the voice of reason. Thanks for clearing it up scientifically! ;-)

tazlah · Post by **tazlah** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:06 pm

joebagadonuts wrote:i saw part of a discovery channel special on this particular incident. they said that aircraft fuel burns so hot that most of the plane was obliterated on impact, and whatever remained was turned to ash in a matter of minutes.

Yeah -- but what if "they" are the same "they" who are behind this apparent conspiracy anyway???? :-k

That would be what "they" want you to think...

(That's too deep for a Monday!)

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:12 pm

NikiH - so, just because someone "proves" it scientifically means it is truth? In fairness, the mainstream media is the perfect propoganda tool for someone to promote an agenda and condition the viewing public to live in fear.

Could an elaborate plot by some really evil people have taken place without the public knowing all the details? I know I'm rambling, but, it seems like we make out these "terrorists" to be geniuses that can plan out huge attacks and stuff. However, would not someone be just as apt to plan an attack and pin it on someone else?

The history of several developing nations has had ocurrences of people who just "disappear", never to be found. Argentina comes to mind. In the 70s a tyrannical regime made people "disappear". No bodies were found, and people were left wondering "what gives?"

COnspiracy theorists believe that the government is feeding us lies regarding the September 11th atacks. We live in an "advanced" nation. Could it not be possible for our government to do better than the Argentinians of 30 years ago and create such a good cover up for plans made internally?

joebagadonuts · Post by **joebagadonuts** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:14 pm

maybe i'm a 'they' too, trying to throw you people off the track by feeding you tidbits of false propaganda and showing you little photos of donuts....

:-k

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:26 pm

Redeemed my issue is with the people who were killed on that flight. Again I will say it there were children on that flight. WITHOUT THEIR PARENTS. They were on a school trip. And some went unaccompanied by a parent. So I'd like to see you, who is such a God fearing person, tell the lady that I saw crying on the news about her 9 year old son being gone, that this is nothing more than a government plot and that her child's plane never hit the Pentagon. Again I'll repeat this also. I know people who saw the plane fly over the highway. Very low, very suspicious. Did that plane that 4 people I know saw just disappear into thin air before slamming into the Pentagon?? I think not. I believe perhaps you are too easily believing the conspiricy theorists ideas when they have little to no proof.

NC43Hog · Post by **NC43Hog** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:38 pm

I read this about 5 in the morning at the hospital while my Mom was having emergency surgery - she's ok.

"It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... page=6&c=y

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:39 pm

Redeemed my issue is with the people who were killed on that flight. Again I will say it there were children on that flight. WITHOUT THEIR PARENTS. They were on a school trip. And some went unaccompanied by a parent. So I'd like to see you, who is such a God fearing person, tell the lady that I saw crying on the news about her 9 year old son being gone, that this is nothing more than a government plot and that her child's plane never hit the Pentagon. Again I'll repeat this also. I know people who saw the plane fly over the highway. Very low, very suspicious. Did that plane that 4 people I know saw just disappear into thin air before slamming into the Pentagon?? I think not. I believe perhaps you are too easily believing the conspiricy theorists ideas when they have little to no proof.

I don't disagree with your emotional reaction to the losses of those children, and yes, it would be difficult to explain to a group of parents the loss of their children.

However, I never said they were not dead. It's gruesome and maybe beyond reason to believe that our government would off a bunch a kids on a plane, but hey, man is sinful by nature, and could abuse power. Didn't Hitler do it? Didn't Saddam do it? They abused their power. Shoot, Hitler had a whole nation believing they were doing the right thing.

Deception is an evil thing, and sometimes you don't realize it until it's too late.

(I'll play the emotional card now, as well) You, as a child-loving mom, wish to rear your child in whichever way you think best. You don't want governement telling how to rear your child, what he can/should watch on TV, etc, right? So how do you reconcile distrust of the government win terms of your child, but wholly believe that 9/11 could not have been fixed, just because "your friend told you so"?

9/11, be it by the gov or the "terrorists" (maybe one and the same?), was meant to cause an huge emotional, mental, spiritual blow to this nation. Everyone was affected by it.

We've given up personal liberties as a result, in the name of the war on terrorism (walked through a metal detector with no shoes recently? Notice how the Patriot Act was quickly passed?)

No proof? What was in that video? Where do all the authors of "9/11 doubting" books get facts? What took so long to get answers from the governement re: 9/11?

Not everything is crystal clear with re: to 9/11.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:44 pm

NC43Hog wrote:I read this last night about 5 in the morning at the hospital while my Mom was having emergency surgery - she ok.

"It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... page=6&c=y

How can we be sure that you're not one of "them", NC??????? :lol:

This is a good quote, but I wonder...

Which wreck produced more wreckage?

The Pentagon hit or The Spaceshuttle (discovery?) explosion?

If the jet fuel consumed the plane, would not somthing similar had happened to the space shuttle?

Just wondering.

NC43Hog · Post by **NC43Hog** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:46 pm

So unlike you to be playig the "Devils Advocate" RS.