Rolle's bonus...(gulp)...15 mil

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:45 pm

doctordrew wrote:Yes, we can all agree that Rolle is better. There is no disagreement with that. However, if the signing bonus is actually $15 million, then we have learned nothing about our earlier ways. I still think we should be getting Ken Lucas or keep Smoot. Why do we always go for the big names and pay them more then the product they put on the field?

See, I told you, some people actually think Smoot is better. I think Rolle is hands down better. Scouts Inc. and Gregg Williams both agree but Rolle is a few years older. Although he and Smoot have BOTH had injury problems and are BOTH undersized.

vtfootball07 · Post by **vtfootball07** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:50 pm

riggofan wrote:I don't know. This seems like a retarded move to me. Why not just pay Smoot what he wanted instead of getting a guy who is older and coming off knee surgery? Maybe Mike Barrow needs company on the bench.

We don't know how the contract is structured exactly. It is possible that Rolle will get a smaller SB, but will have incentives that could be reached to push up to $15 mil. I still think that the move to get Barrow was a good move. He doesn't have a huge cap hit, and he has always been a good MLB and a sure tackler. He can quarterback the defense the way that Pierce did this past season, so long as he is healthy. This is a possible reason for why Pierce may be allowed to leave in free agency. All of Barrow's former teammates have always said that despite his age, Barrow is conditioned like hes a young player still. Lets hope he can be healthy this next season for us.

SKINSLOVER · Post by **SKINSLOVER** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:51 pm

I WOULD RATHER TAKE ANTRELL ROLLE OR PAC MAN JONES. MY OPINION

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:56 pm

this "older" thing is horse mud...

Green played till he was 40.... and yes he wasn't the best his last few years... but Rolle is only 28...

Riggo44 · Post by **Riggo44** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:56 pm

I don't agree that Rolle is a better corner. I've always thought that Smoot didn't get enough credit for his cover skills. I thought he was better than Champ while they were both in DC. The opinion of Scouts Inc carries very little weight w/ me. I understand the fact that some people (myself included) were disappointed that he turned down the 10mil offer, but I have to say that money I'd rather have Smoot. He's younger and I think he's better than Rolle.

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:58 pm

I agree. We need to stop the madness. Even though many of us Skins fans have grown accustomed to the excitement of a big free agent signing (or two, or three...) every year, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE ONE OFF-SEASON where we did little or nothing. Use the draft, clean up some cap space, pick up a June 1st cap casualty or two, sign a bunch of undrafted free agents and go to camp. It works! Many of the BIG MONEY free agents come here with a BIG CHIP on their shoulder and are never worth what you pay them anyway.

vtfootball07 · Post by **vtfootball07** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:02 pm

The one thought that I have is that adding Rolle could allow Williams to get more pressure on the QB. Teams will never know what side the blitz could come from (and Rolle could actually hit the QB unlike Smoot). Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have the continuity, but I think GW is focusing on forcing more turnovers this season. We really are lined up pretty well, with Bowen coming back, Taylor progressing, and Arrington back. Just add a DE int he draft maybe, and we could force a ton of turnovers. Either way, I'm kind of dismayed because I would like for all of this money to go towards the offense.

wonker · Post by **wonker** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:04 pm

Even if Williams wants Rolle he's OLD. You can bring up Darrell Green all you want, but here are some other names for you:

Troy Vincent and Bobby Taylor. The Eagles saw them approaching 30 and ran like they were the plague and since then. The Eagles have an all-pro secondary of YOUTH, and Taylor and vincent are backups or safetys. want more examples? Jason Seehorn, Aeneas Williams...

HTTR

wonker

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:07 pm

Smoot played opposite Bailey & Springs... two better CB and he still didn't play outstanding at times.... to say he's better than Rolle is not seeing the picture...

I'm not sure it matters whether the guy we sign is a "big name" guy or not... It's a matter of does he help the team.... Smoots not coming back... that's obvious.... Now do we keep what we got and hope they pan out to atleast be as good as Smoot was... or do we inquire on getting a guy who has played and been successful in a GW defense... I say at the right price... he'd be beneficial.... whether or not we're offering him more than Smoot or not...

vtfootball07 · Post by **vtfootball07** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:13 pm

wonker wrote:Even if Williams wants Rolle he's OLD. You can bring up Darrell Green all you want, but here are some other names for you:

Troy Vincent and Bobby Taylor. The Eagles saw them approaching 30 and ran like they were the plague and since then. The Eagles have an all-pro secondary of YOUTH, and Taylor and vincent are backups or safetys. want more examples? Jason Seehorn, Aeneas Williams...

HTTR

wonker

Not to take anything away from the Iggles, but their secondary really doesn't impress me as much as the pro bowl selections reflect. I try not to buy too much into the selections because the fans have a huge say in the decision....and most of those people are morons. I was skeptical last year of Springs b/c of his age and health, but he was our best corner last year hands down in my opinion. Maybe Rolle could do the same. Call me naive for trusting GW, but this is just one man's take.

Redskins Rule · Post by **Redskins Rule** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:31 pm

The Revolving Door!

Sure, Rolle is better then Smoot, but I'd rather keep smoot and keep that continuity.

Williams must know something that we don't. I trust him. I trust that whatever he's doing will make the team better. But, I still hate that revolving door.

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:32 pm

The Colts won't spend heavily on a free-agent cornerback based on the evaluation of a coming trend in the NFL: the overvaluing of defensive backs. According to Tony Dungy, the enforcement of pass interference and illegal contact last season literally made the idea of a shutdown corner extinct. Dungy, a former NFL defensive back, said he couldn't fathom paying a cornerback, now the NFL's highest-paid position, supposed "market value."

Another factor to think about before dropping most of our cap space into Rolle or Smoot.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:42 pm

BossHog wrote:I'm not sure why people are 'judging' a contract that not only hasn't been signed yet, but was reported by a vehement Redskin hater.

We still do not know the "details" people! And we have to give Williams the benefit of who he "wants" PLUS Joe will have a "say" also!!

Clinton Portis · Post by **Clinton Portis** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:48 pm

I really hope we don't sign Rolle.

I mean I like Smoot and if we can sign Rolle for that much, then we can sign Smoot for that much.

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:14 pm

Fred Smoot Scouting Report - Grade 72
Insider Analysis Smoot shows good instincts in coverage, he is aggressive and he will jump routes. Smoot has fluid hips, he has the speed to run with receivers in man coverage and he has the leaping ability to compete for jump balls downfield. He has the body control to adjust to the ball while it's in the air, he catches the ball away from his frame and he has excellent overall ball skills. However, he doesn't play with a mean streak, he is inconsistent and he has had problems staying healthy. He lacks ideal upper body strength and he allows the receiver to dictate the route far too often. He doesn't always wrap up upon contact, he frequently fails to square up to the ball carrier and he is an inconsistent open field tackler. He appears to lose focus at times and he doesn't play with a great motor. Overall, he has the speed, agility and confidence of a shutdown corner but he isn't physical in coverage.

Samari Rolle Scouting Report - Grade 80
He is undersized and gets pushed around too much by bigger receivers. He is not very physical in the passing game or the running game. He has adequate height, but lacks bulk and strength. Is a finesse DC that does not like to press receivers. He is a below average tackler who does not fill hard vs. the run. He also has had lots of trouble staying healthy for a complete season. However, when Rolle is healthy he is one of the more athletic cover corners in the NFL. Is versatile enough to play outside or inside against the slot receiver, but spends most of his time on the outside. He is quicker than fast, but rarely gets beat one-on-one down the sideline because he has excellent technique and recognition skills, and he has very smooth hips. He is at his best in the short-to-intermediate zone when he can take chances and jump underneath routes. Possesses rare recognition skills and he plays with great technique. Overall, Rolle is one of the better pure cover corners in the NFL.

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:43 pm

Redskins Rule wrote:Williams must know something that we don't. I trust him. I trust that whatever he's doing will make the team better. But, I still hate that revolving door.

Yeah, Williams knows that he has about 4 game tapes of Smoot blitzing the QB untouched....and as Smoot approaches the QB's blind side he dives.....full speed....and lands on his face....the QB then goes on to complete a 30 yard pass...on 3rd and long....then scores a TD...and the Redskins lose by 7 points.

Saw Smoot whiff a few times on blitzes...that would have changed the game. Not only should Smoot have set up and sacked the QB he should have caused a fumble.

I will doubt Rolle just like I doubted Springs last offseason....and hopefully I will be proved wrong again!
That is a very high bonus though...it is a higher bonus than the one Springs got last year I think.

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:50 pm

oafusp wrote:
Redskins Rule wrote:Williams must know something that we don't. I trust him. I trust that whatever he's doing will make the team better. But, I still hate that revolving door.

Yeah, Williams knows that he has about 4 game tapes of Smoot blitzing the QB untouched....and as Smoot approaches the QB's blind side he dives.....full speed....and lands on his face....the QB then goes on to complete a 30 yard pass...on 3rd and long....then scores a TD...and the Redskins lose by 7 points.

Saw Smoot whiff a few times on blitzes...that would have changed the game. Not only should Smoot have set up and sacked the QB he should have caused a fumble.

I will doubt Rolle just like I doubted Springs last offseason....and hopefully I will be proved wrong again!
That is a very high bonus though...it is a higher bonus than the one Springs got last year I think.

I forgot about those miscues. Smoot did suck at oppurtune moments. :oops:

chicosbailbond · Post by **chicosbailbond** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:13 pm

Rolle is not worth 15 million... we are overpaying again.. he is not a character guy... he is a wife beater and never stays healthy....

we should have went after surtain if we were going to pay that kind of money...

or worse off stay with smoot...

I hate to say this but I am starting to agree with Sally Jenkins... something is really wrong in Redskins land... and all signs point to Snyder and Cerrato....

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:20 pm

Chico, No need to go jumping off bridges yet. Lets wait to see IF we've signed Roole ABD for how much. Then we'll see how much Smoot gets from another team. If we do sign Rolle, I'd like to hear Gibbs and Williams' explanations. Then we can jump off bridges:)

gilbertarenas · Post by **gilbertarenas** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:25 pm

My suggestion, don't go after either of them to improve the cap situation a lot better; just re-sign antonio pierce to keep the core together add make some cuts, maybe barrow. Ideally, it would be nice to get rid of Brunell, but there doesn't seem to be enough cap space now.

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:30 pm

15 million is steep for strangers, but Smoot aint 'core with him waiting on the free agency market to open up.

This all to see his worth?

If we cant get him to sign our offer, why would we get in a bidding contest with other teams.

INMO he should just resign.

trey53 · Post by **trey53** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:36 pm

Darn it all and draft Pac-Man!

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:57 pm

that's right. Pac-man is touted to be alot tougher solid tackler than Smoot and Rolle too.

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:36 pm

BringThePain! wrote:it would be nice to get the $15 dollar figure knocked down a little... but I'd take him over Fred Tidwell coming back here...

Well, if you really think $15 is too much for a wife-beating DB... would you spend say, $13.50 ?

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:41 pm

....And to think the Redskins could have had Mushin Muhammed for only $10 million (what he signed with the Bears)

$15 Million IS WAY TOO MUCH FOR A GREG WILLIAMS DEFENSE...THUMBS DOWN!

I hope the $15 million was reported by Peter King....then there is a chance it is false.