Michael Irvin should not be in the hall of fame!!!!

[skinpride1]

Irvin should not be in the hall of fame because like most dallas cowgirls, he is a convicted Felon.The hall of fame should consider these things, no differnt than Pete Rose in baseball.A true hall of famer is not a coke head and a hot head such as Irvan.The Nfl needs to make a stand against people like Irvan,randy moss,owens.You need to set good examples for the young ones and guys like this are not it.The Nfl needs to set rules for the hall of fame and one of them should be convicted felons are not allowed in!!!!!!!I dont care how good they were and if you stoop to those levels than pay the price!!!No hall of fame title.Art monk for the hall of fame!!!

[Mike]

Irvin should not be in the hall of fame because like most dallas cowgirls, he is a convicted Felon.The hall of fame should consider these things, no differnt than Pete Rose in baseball.A true hall of famer is not a coke head and a hot head such as Irvan.The Nfl needs to make a stand against people like Irvan,randy moss,owens.You need to set good examples for the young ones and guys like this are not it.The Nfl needs to set rules for the hall of fame and one of them should be convicted felons are not allowed in!!!!!!!I dont care how good they were and if you stoop to those levels than pay the price!!!No hall of fame title.Art monk for the hall of fame!!!

I agree 100%... Michael Irvin was kicked out of the NFL, if Im not mistaken. He was a convicted felon, and did not care what the NFL or anybody told him to do. He thought he was bigger than life, than he can be bigger than the Hall of Fame with out being in it. And if he gets in before Monk...Im Im Im going to

[skinsfan#33]

I don't know if M. Irvin is a"felon" but he certainly is NOT a HOF reciever. Of course I don't think Young is a HOF QB either. #88 wouldn't have had half his catches if the stinkin Refs would have called offensesive pass interference half the time they should have on him. And Steve Young was a back-up QB for most of his carreer and was sorrounded by tons of tallent in Frisco.

[tcwest10]

Irvin was not "kicked out" of the NFL. He retired due to a neck injury suffered against Philly that exacerbated a previously unknown degenerative cervical condition.
I'm no fan of the man, but if his numbers bear watching, I say give him his due consideration.
After Monk gets in, that is.
Mike can wait his turn.

[General Failure]

He's guaranteed to have the worst induction speech since Dan "Sufferin Succotash" Dierforpth.

[Champsturf]

He's guaranteed to have the worst induction speech since Dan "Sufferin Succotash" Dierforpth.

[Irn-Bru]

He's guaranteed to have the worst induction speech since Dan "Sufferin Succotash" Dierforpth.

I don't know, man--I mean, Neon Deion keeps coming back to prolong his eligibility. . .but most of these media guys have him as a first-ballot shoe-in. And when Deion does make it in, I can only imagine the things that'll fly out of his mouth. . .

"The huntin' ain't fun when the rabbits got the gun"

or perhaps

"They should rename the position Deion."

[General Failure]

Deion at least has that whole television Evangelist voice thing going for him, so that might make it at least a little entertaining. And he could be the first guy that I can remember going in that will have no one in the crowd cheering for him.

[riggofan]

I'm ok with Irvin making the HoF at some point. Guys make mistakes - especially young guys with tons of money and fame. Should L.T. not be in the Hall?

That said, if there isn't any place in the Hall for Art Monk, I don't see how there can be room for Michael Irvin.

Irvin 750 recs, 11904 yds, 65 TDs, 159 games
Monk 940 recs, 12,721 yds, 68 TDs, 224 games

Both played in three super bowls.

I can forgive Irvin more for being a felon than for having been a Cowboy!

[curveball]

I'm ok with Irvin making the HoF at some point. Guys make mistakes - especially young guys with tons of money and fame. Should L.T. not be in the Hall?

That said, if there isn't any place in the Hall for Art Monk, I don't see how there can be room for Michael Irvin.

Irvin 750 recs, 11904 yds, 65 TDs, 159 games
Monk 940 recs, 12,721 yds, 68 TDs, 224 games

Both played in three super bowls.

I can forgive Irvin more for being a felon than for having been a Cowboy!

Irvin's #'s are superior to Monk's in every category except length of career. Catches per game, TDs per catch, TDs per game, YPC.......

Irvin's best years were also far superior than Monk's best seasons. Irvin made more pro bowls and All-Pro teams.

Comparing the two in the post-season makes the gap even wider.

[oafusp]

I'm ok with Irvin making the HoF at some point. Guys make mistakes - especially young guys with tons of money and fame. Should L.T. not be in the Hall?

That said, if there isn't any place in the Hall for Art Monk, I don't see how there can be room for Michael Irvin.

Irvin 750 recs, 11904 yds, 65 TDs, 159 games
Monk 940 recs, 12,721 yds, 68 TDs, 224 games

Both played in three super bowls.

I can forgive Irvin more for being a felon than for having been a Cowboy!

Irvin's #'s are superior to Monk's in every category except length of career. Catches per game, TDs per catch, TDs per game, YPC.......

Irvin's best years were also far superior than Monk's best seasons. Irvin made more pro bowls and All-Pro teams.

Comparing the two in the post-season makes the gap even wider.

GARY CLARK CAREER:
Games-167
REC-699
YDS-10,856
AVG-15.5
TD- 65
PTS-390
2 Super Bowl wins
4 Pro Bowls


MICHAEL IRVIN CAREER:
Game-159
REC-750
YDS-11,904
AVG-15.9
TD- 65
PTS- 392
3 Super Bowl wins
5 Pro Bowls



ART MONK CAREER:
Game-224
REC-940
YDS-12,721
AVG-13.5
TD- 68
PTS- 408
3 Super Bowl wins
3 Pro Bowls

[curveball]

I'm ok with Irvin making the HoF at some point. Guys make mistakes - especially young guys with tons of money and fame. Should L.T. not be in the Hall?

That said, if there isn't any place in the Hall for Art Monk, I don't see how there can be room for Michael Irvin.

Irvin 750 recs, 11904 yds, 65 TDs, 159 games
Monk 940 recs, 12,721 yds, 68 TDs, 224 games

Both played in three super bowls.

I can forgive Irvin more for being a felon than for having been a Cowboy!

Irvin's #'s are superior to Monk's in every category except length of career. Catches per game, TDs per catch, TDs per game, YPC.......

Irvin's best years were also far superior than Monk's best seasons. Irvin made more pro bowls and All-Pro teams.

Comparing the two in the post-season makes the gap even wider.

GARY CLARK CAREER:
Games-167
REC-699
YDS-10,856
AVG-15.5
TD- 65
PTS-390
2 Super Bowl wins
4 Pro Bowls


MICHAEL IRVIN CAREER:
Game-159
REC-750
YDS-11,904
AVG-15.9
TD- 65
PTS- 392
3 Super Bowl wins
5 Pro Bowls



ART MONK CAREER:
Game-224
REC-940
YDS-12,721
AVG-13.5
TD- 68
PTS- 408
3 Super Bowl wins
3 Pro Bowls

If you're trying to argue that Clark deserves HOF consideration, I agree with you, probably moreso than Monk. His numbers are better.

[joebagadonuts]

Irvin's #'s are superior to Monk's in every category except length of career...

..and receptions, games played, catches, total yards, and touchdowns. all those minor categories. should monk be considered less of a candidate because he was a different type of receiver?

[curveball]

Irvin's #'s are superior to Monk's in every category except length of career...

should monk be considered less of a candidate because he was a different type of receiver?

Monk was a "different type" of receiver. Irvin was a star, Monk was a second receiver who has great "career" numbers because he played forever.

[oafusp]

Monk was a "different type" of receiver. Irvin was a star, Monk was a second receiver who has great "career" numbers because he played forever.

What? Who was the #1, Clark? What about the years before and after Clark was here?

Besides, Clarks numbers are right there with Irvins too.

Length of career does not matter. If so, then we wont see Darrell Green or Bruce Smith in the HOF either.

Another point is Monk has better numbers than Bobby Mitchell and Charlie Taylor (Redskins)...both are in the HOF and did not produce a Super Bowl Season like Monk did 3 times.

[curveball]

Monk was a "different type" of receiver. Irvin was a star, Monk was a second receiver who has great "career" numbers because he played forever.

What? Who was the #1, Clark? What about the years before and after Clark was here?

Besides, Clarks numbers are right there with Irvins too.

Length of career does not matter. If so, then we wont see Darrell Green or Bruce Smith in the HOF either.

Another point is Monk has better numbers than Bobby Mitchell and Charlie Taylor (Redskins)...both are in the HOF and did not produce a Super Bowl Season like Monk did 3 times.

Several points that I think agree on. Clark should be getting more consideration. There are players currently in the hall that do not belong.


I have a problem with the HOF in that they induct too many people. I feel it cheapens the honor.

Monk's biggest proponents argue "numbers". Let's take a closer look at the numbers. Compare Monk's "average" to those of his contempories to lessen the impact of "different eras". I no longer have the link, but Monk doesn't exceed "pretty good" in any category. A simple way to look at this is how few times Monk made second team ALL PRO or higher, heck even include third team. Does anyone believe that someone who was so seldom among the top 6 WRs in any given year deserves this type of devotion unless he played for the Redskins?

[Hogfather]

Irvin was not "kicked out" of the NFL. He retired due to a neck injury suffered against Philly that exacerbated a previously unknown degenerative cervical condition.
I'm no fan of the man, but if his numbers bear watching, I say give him his due consideration.
After Monk gets in, that is.
Mike can wait his turn.

I second that...take a number Mike, now serving number 81

[skinpride1]

HMMM ,curveball most be consulting with the same people that think Irvan should be in the hall of fame before Monk.They believe that Irvan put up more numbers and stats than monk, well my friend that is bull!!!!I've read some replies saying that Irvan was young and didn't know any better for the drugs and other things.I still say bull!!!Yes he did, and maybe he would have had a longer carrer if he would have walked the straight line.I love the fact that all my redskin hall of fame heros where straight up hard working guys.Hail to the skins!!!

[curveball]

HMMM ,curveball most be consulting with the same people that think Irvan should be in the hall of fame before Monk.They believe that Irvan put up more numbers and stats than monk, well my friend that is bull!!!!I've read some replies saying that Irvan was young and didn't know any better for the drugs and other things.I still say bull!!!Yes he did, and maybe he would have had a longer carrer if he would have walked the straight line.I love the fact that all my redskin hall of fame heros where straight up hard working guys.Hail to the skins!!!

I'm having problems following the English, let alone the logic, but from what I gather, you're implying that if Irvin would have sat home on Friday nights he somehow would have avoided the monstrosity that was the "turf" at Veteran's Field????

mmmmmkay.

[washington53]

Irvin should not be in the hall of fame because like most dallas cowgirls, he is a convicted Felon.The hall of fame should consider these things, no differnt than Pete Rose in baseball.A true hall of famer is not a coke head and a hot head such as Irvan.The Nfl needs to make a stand against people like Irvan,randy moss,owens.You need to set good examples for the young ones and guys like this are not it.The Nfl needs to set rules for the hall of fame and one of them should be convicted felons are not allowed in!!!!!!!I dont care how good they were and if you stoop to those levels than pay the price!!!No hall of fame title.Art monk for the hall of fame!!!

couldnt have been said better
no convicted felons no matter the career stats

[curveball]

Irvin should not be in the hall of fame because like most dallas cowgirls, he is a convicted Felon.The hall of fame should consider these things, no differnt than Pete Rose in baseball.A true hall of famer is not a coke head and a hot head such as Irvan.The Nfl needs to make a stand against people like Irvan,randy moss,owens.You need to set good examples for the young ones and guys like this are not it.The Nfl needs to set rules for the hall of fame and one of them should be convicted felons are not allowed in!!!!!!!I dont care how good they were and if you stoop to those levels than pay the price!!!No hall of fame title.Art monk for the hall of fame!!!

couldnt have been said better
no convicted felons no matter the career stats

Technically, he was never convicted of a felony (I am in no way condoning his off-field activities), but don't let facts stand in the way of your opinion.

[skinsfan#33]

Curveball,
Tell me ANY NFL record that Irvin ever set. You argue that Monk was seldom in the top 6 WR in the league. You might have a point, but he did set an NFL record for the most catches in a single season that stood for over a decade. He also set the record for the most consecutive games with a reception. And of course their was that little NFL record that he took from Steve Largent, something about being the NFL's ALL TIME LEADING RECIEVER!!! Irvin was never the best reciever ANY year. Irvin caught balls from a guy that should go in to the HOF. And Monk caught passes from Jeff Rutledge, Stan Humprheys, Cary Conklin, Jay Schraider, Mark Rypien, and Joey T and Doug William, both at the end of their careers. Even Clark has the distinction of having an NFL record; he was the only WR to ever catch at least 50 balls in his first eleven seasons. Irvin is an above average WR that played on a great team for a HOF QB and defense cueing on a HOF RB. Mr Irvin is not worthy to carry Art Monk's jock strap!

[curveball]

Curveball,
Tell me ANY NFL record that Irvin ever set. You argue that Monk was seldom in the top 6 WR in the league. You might have a point, but he did set an NFL record for the most catches in a single season that stood for over a decade. He also set the record for the most consecutive games with a reception. And of course their was that little NFL record that he took from Steve Largent, something about being the NFL's ALL TIME LEADING RECIEVER!!! Irvin was never the best reciever ANY year. Irvin caught balls from a guy that should go in to the HOF. And Monk caught passes from Jeff Rutledge, Stan Humprheys, Cary Conklin, Jay Schraider, Mark Rypien, and Joey T and Doug William, both at the end of their careers. Even Clark has the distinction of having an NFL record; he was the only WR to ever catch at least 50 balls in his first eleven seasons. Irvin is an above average WR that played on a great team for a HOF QB and defense cueing on a HOF RB. Mr Irvin is not worthy to carry Art Monk's jock strap!

And Monk was the best receiver in the league what year?

You cannot fault Irvin for having a career that overlapped the career of the greatest WR of all time in Jerry Rice.

And again, I don't know how many times I need to type this, but Gary Clark deserves much more considertion than he's currently given. I would even argue that he deserves more consideration than Monk.

If you'd like to argue Monk/Irvin, find me ONE statistic that Monk lead on a per game basis.

Monk was a very good player who had a remarkably long career. He deserves serious HOF consideration, but until a weak class comes along, he will not get in.


On a side note, I'll remember your comments when you argue that Aikman doesn't belong when he becomes eligible.

[skinpride1]

Curveball do us all a big favor.Go join a Dallas Cowboy site if you are so stuck on Irvan.Don't disrespect Art Monk in front of true redskin fans.Your opinion of Irvan is your buisness, but all his criminal records speak for therself.I do think that troy should get into the hall of fame.Troy is not a coke head or did he sleep with trash.Troy is a good man, that is my whole point about Irvan he isn't.

[skinsfan#33]

Curveball,
Tell me ANY NFL record that Irvin ever set. You argue that Monk was seldom in the top 6 WR in the league. You might have a point, but he did set an NFL record for the most catches in a single season that stood for over a decade. He also set the record for the most consecutive games with a reception. And of course their was that little NFL record that he took from Steve Largent, something about being the NFL's ALL TIME LEADING RECIEVER!!! Irvin was never the best reciever ANY year. Irvin caught balls from a guy that should go in to the HOF. And Monk caught passes from Jeff Rutledge, Stan Humprheys, Cary Conklin, Jay Schraider, Mark Rypien, and Joey T and Doug William, both at the end of their careers. Even Clark has the distinction of having an NFL record; he was the only WR to ever catch at least 50 balls in his first eleven seasons. Irvin is an above average WR that played on a great team for a HOF QB and defense cueing on a HOF RB. Mr Irvin is not worthy to carry Art Monk's jock strap!

And Monk was the best receiver in the league what year?

You cannot fault Irvin for having a career that overlapped the career of the greatest WR of all time in Jerry Rice.

And again, I don't know how many times I need to type this, but Gary Clark deserves much more considertion than he's currently given. I would even argue that he deserves more consideration than Monk.

If you'd like to argue Monk/Irvin, find me ONE statistic that Monk lead on a per game basis.

Monk was a very good player who had a remarkably long career. He deserves serious HOF consideration, but until a weak class comes along, he will not get in.


On a side note, I'll remember your comments when you argue that Aikman doesn't belong when he becomes eligible.

In 1984 Monk set the NFL single season reception record at 106. It stood for ten years. He had 106 catches in a decade were 100 was only reached twice by someone other than Monk. That certanly qualifies as the best season for a WR that year.
In 1984 he second to Roger Craige with 91 grabs, and in 1989 he was third.

Monk did play during Rice's tenure. Remeber Jerry started all the way back in 1985. And who know how things would have turned out had Monk had HOF QB's pitching him the ball, instead of guys no one else wanted.

I do know one stat the Irvin has an NFL record for. The most times anyone got away with offensive pass interferrence. He might only have 2 or 300 catches if the refs had thrown the little yellow hankie when they should have. But of course if you can't get open and you KNOW that the zebra aren't going to flag you for it why wouldn't would push off. I did get tired of seeing Darrel Green in perfect coverage only to have Mike push off and either catch the ball or draw a flag on old Do Good.

When everything is said and done wether Monk gets in or not has nothing to do with his play and everything to do with the fact that the he didn't like talking to the media and he didn't self promote and he was never caught with hooker and cocain in a hotel room

You won't here me say a word when Aikman is nominated, he and Emmitt should be first time ballot type of guys. They were far and away more important to the Cowboy's success than Irvin.