crappy coaching decisions, crappy playing

[die cowboys die]

it took a lot of really bad decisions to wrap that game up and give it to dallas as a christmas present. i'm absolutely incensed by the following things and want to see some heads on pikes:

1. the most obvious, how the HELL do you let a WR get behind you ON 4TH AND 10 WITH 30 SECONDS LEFT UP BY 4???? i don't care how good springs or taylor or WHOEVER has been all year, he committed the ultimate and unforgivable sin- he gave away to the cowboys. i would rather him suck ALL YEAR and make that ONE PLAY to beat the cowboys. he needs a thunderous beating.

2. but let's back up. there were 2 or 3 minutes left when we got the ball on offense. they had all 3 time-outs. THAT MEANS THAT YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY MOVE THE BALL. that means that running straight forward into a PILE on the line of scrimmage for NO YARDS is completely POINTLESS because it's not going to run any time off the clock, which is the point of running in those situations. now, one might argue that the defense had been good, so just punt it back and lean on the D. NO, i'm sorry- we'd been leaning HARD on them allllllll game (and YEAR) and sooner or later it's going to break. i know you take the chance of an INT by throwing, but you're giving them an AUTOMATIC chance to move the ball with plenty of time by doing what we did.

3. ANTONIO BROWN NEEDS TO BE CUT. yes, i mean from the team, but also with razors. rusty, rusty razors. someone needs to smash his hands with a sledgehammer. i told my girlfriend "we're going to lose, because this idiot is going to try to do something stupid with this punt instead of just taking a fair catch. this is the kind of thing we do every year to give them the game" and 5 seconds later it happened!!! so for this, brown needs to die a slow painful death, but the coaches need a severe beating because they should have told him in no uncertain terms FAIR CATCH THIS F____ING FOOTBALL. DO NOT EVEN TRY TO RUN WITH IT.

now you might say that my 3rd and 2nd points conflict ("why should you try to move the ball on offense but not run the kick back?")- but it isn't so. running the kick back is pointless because you aren't likely to get very far first of all, but more importantly THE CLOCK IS GOING TO STOP AFTER THE PLAY because of possession change. yards were completely irrelevant at this point in the game. we were WINNING. it's all about TIME, you are playing against the CLOCK. you don't need to GET anywhere, you just need to gobble up time.

i don't care how long he's been out of the game, for a hall of fame coach to make these idiotic and amateur coaching decisions is inexcusable. it's common sense game management!
how can i go into the offseason with any hope for next year when we are still this awful in even the most basic aspects of the game?

[darkwing99]

I feel you pain man.

Just let it all out

[welch]

(2) and (3) seem right, but the three runs used all the Cowboys timeouts. I thought, OK, pass, go full-out offense, but it made sense to punt the ball depp into Cowboys territory with no timeouts. Trust the defense, which had be pounding Testaverde.

I don;t understand the loose defense int the last minute.

*

Yes, one especially bad play. No right to give up at 40 yeard TD pass with 30 seconds left.

*

But the last Redskin offensive serives made sense if you trust the defense.

[hkiss444]

The conservative game plan and consertive offense finally hit it's pinnacle against of all teams, Dallas. You can't expect to score 10 points and win. There is too much playing not to lose.
Once again the first two possessions inside the 10 yard line and the team walks away with 3 points. For this team settling for field goals is not good enough. They have to take the shots downfield. DBs and Safeties are playing the 5 yard patterns knowing that they won't throw downfield. The 3 runs into the pile to make dallas lose their 3 timeouts was a far worse decision then Taylor guessing on the wrong receiver.

[cvillehog]

Don't forget that Coles ran the clock down to 5 seconds with his run after the catch. He probably should've gone 2 yards and downed himself so we had a chance to run one more play, instead of trying a super-long FG with a back-up kicker.

[JPM36]

I'm not about to blame Taylor for this loss. The defense played great all game and let's not forget that it was Taylor who stripped Julius Jones at the 2 yard line on a play that looked like a sure TD after several other Redskins had missed the tackles. Without that play we probably would've never even been in the position to win yesterday.

How can you blame the defense for a loss in a 13-10 game?

It seems like everyone in here is looking for someone to blame. I think some people even said we should get a new D-Line coach....yeah great idea....All Greg Blache has done is rejuvenate Cornelius Griffin and turn him into a Pro Bowl level player after 3 straight years of underachieving in NY. He managed to hold together the line well enough to be ranked 2nd in the league in total D despite starting such studs as Demetric Evans, Ron Warner, Joe Sala'vea and Ryan Boschetti at times this year. Blache has done such a good job that we would be lucky to retain him at the end of this season as I would imagine that some teams will be looking to offer him a true D coordinator post. I don't think it's true at all what some people said about us being dominated in the trenches every week on both sides of the ball. Sure our OL gets whipped on a near weekly basis, but our DL has been awesome. 2nd in the league overall, 3rd against the run, and they did a fine job yesterday. You don't put up the numbers our D has when you're getting dominated in the trenches.

We are all looking for an explanation in the wake of the loss. I still cant believe that we actually lost yesterday but if I had to point to one thing it would be this- we got inside the ten yard line on each of our first 2 possessions and came away with a total of 3 points. In a game we lost by a field goal....

[Redskin in Canada]

i don't care how long he's been out of the game, for a hall of fame coach to make these idiotic and amateur coaching decisions is inexcusable. it's common sense game management!
how can i go into the offseason with any hope for next year when we are still this awful in even the most basic aspects of the game?

Venting is one thing and it is even necessary. That is why I did not visit the board -after- the game. I knew people needed to get it all out and the catharsys is necessary. But that is one thing. Going after your coaches and players is quite another.

You have the right to your opinion. This is what this board is about. But if you have absolutely nothing to contribute in a positive manner to help your fellow fans, Why do you resort to insult them?

Please see the statement by Joe after the game:
http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=5222

"For us, I really feel sorry for our players. If there's ever been a group of guys who fight hard every single week, this is it. They played extremely hard today. You could look at about 50 plays in a game like this where you could have won it. The important thing for us is, it was all of us together and there was no one play that cost us a ballgame. These are hard-fought lessons for us. I'm proud of our football team and the way they fight. They've laid it on the line all year long."

On how tough the loss was for the team:
"They don't come any tougher than this. It's one of those things where you give them credit. They made a great play there at the end. But I'm proud of our team and the way it fights. You're not going to take that away from them. And the other thing is, we win together and we lose together. That's what we're all about."

I choose to lose -together- with them.

Ah! and on the score at the end of the game, please see Shawn Springs interview to -try- to understand why we were short of CB and defense did not play more aggressively against the pass.

Q: Did the injury to Fred Smoot play a factor in the coverage scheme?
A: "We were short-handed over what we could do because Fred went down and Ade Jimoh went down on a special teams play. We were in a situation where we couldn't run a an aggressive defensive package. We didn't have anybody left. We had to keep our linebackers in while they had four wide receivers in. Normally we would have had more defensive backs in there. That's all we could do at that time because we were short."

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=5226

And to answer your insult:

for a hall of fame coach to make these idiotic and amateur coaching decisions is inexcusable.

Please do not. Move on. If you cannot take it on the chin like a man, move on. Being a Gibbs fan is not for the faint of heart.

And the above goes for all those in this and other threads who can not take it on the chin either and stand losing -WITH- their team.

This board is about Skins fans who can help one another become better fans.

[Chris Luva Luva]

for a hall of fame coach to make these idiotic and
amateur coaching decisions is inexcusable.

I don't know who said this, and I only read the posts from the regulars in this thread because it seems like 99% of the new guys are just whining.

To whoever said that, I'll give you the benefit that you're just hurt over the loss but FOR A SUPPOSED REDSKIN FAN TO MAKE THESE IDIOTIC AND AMATUER POSTINGS IS INEXCUSABLE!

[welch]

Thank you, RIC and CLL.

(spoken by someone who saw, at least on MNF, the Clint Longley TD.)

Now let's cheer for a win against the Vikings!

[Raised2BeARedskin]

Crappy play calling?! Ramsey delivered a 7-7 drive to SEVEN different recievers! Great play calling! Great Coaching! Great execution by players! Too bad the Great Coaching and calling was poorly executed 75% of the game! Coach Gibbs is a proven leader, a offensive genious, and an un-negotiable winner. Right now our PLAYERS aren't executing to the best of their ability. Any true Redskins fanatic with any common-sense...or knowledge of the past knows this, and knows not to criticize Coach Gibbs. Our entire coaching staff's persistance will pay of next year!

[die cowboys die]

you morons have lost your minds. don't tell me that i'm not a "man" because i actually give a crap about whether the team wins or loses. joe gibbs's offense is horrendous. his game management has been abysmal. i watched him win those superbowls a million years ago, and loved him for it. but sports is not about what you did 15 years ago, it's about what you do right now. if you suck right now, that is not ok. right now, joe gibbs sucks at calling and managing a game. you can't really argue that, as he's done a terrible job all year.

if you want to keep your lips on gibbs's butt and accept losing, that's fine. that's your right. but you need to shut the hell up and stop insulting people that actually care about winning.


anyways, as i posted in another thread, i don't blame the defense at all. true, no NFL player, no matter how far down he is on the depth chart, should ever let a player get behind him in that situation. so that is truly infuriating. but the defense did their jobs, over and over. 3-and-out, 3-and-out, sack sack sack INT forced fumble, etc etc.
the bottom line is that if you only need FOURTEEN POINTS to win the damn game and you can't do it, you suck, and your fans have a right to be pissed.

[skinpride1]

I must agree that joe gibbs play calling has been bad.How can you say that it has not?I do see a team with a lot of talent.We do have a defense now. We havnt had that in years.The fourth quater decision making by gibbs has been awful.The game with the cowboys was all but over.Then three straight up the belly runs and bam the cboys have it back.We need play calling that runs the clock down, and also picks a first down up, is a must!!How many other teams in the league would have let this happen to them? Then the last eagles game should have been called better.The turn over in the end zone was awful, and not ramseys fault.A play call that throws into a post, doubled covered is just waiting to be picked off, and it was.gibbs needs to remember who the heros are on offense cooley,coles,gardner. How about some plays called that work,when you need it the most, under two minutes in the fouth quater!!!A coach is very imporatant thing and even more in the fourth quarter.Im going to give gibbs one more year to get it back togther.I still believe that he can do it!!!!Please make better play calling coach!!!

[die cowboys die]

thanks for backing me up, skinpride1. i hope everyone realizes that the only reason i am so critical is because i love the redskins and want desperately to WIN.

i understand that gibbs wanted to make the cowboys burn their time-outs, but he has to realize that all you need in that situation is ONE first-down, and the game is over. if we could've moved 3.34 yards on each of those 3 plays, the cowboys are out of time-outs and all we have to do is kneel on the ball a few times, game over. as an offense you simply HAVE to do your part and make this happen instead of putting the overworked defense back on the field (especially when you know the entire secondary has been decimated with injuries!).

[JPFair]

Have you ever noticed that after a Redskins loss, you can always count on a post from DCD that is laced with ridiculous inflammatory remarks about our coaching staff. I agree with CLL, in that I'll give him the benefit that he was just upset about losing. I mean, NO ONE is that ridiculous! It's almost as ridiculous as the now infamous "boycott the Redskins" thread.

[SkinsJock]

My thanks also to CLL, RiC, welch and JP!

The loss was a bad one, yes, but you do not need to insult some very intelligent people on this site, to make your point. I have a right, as do you, to have an opinion, but please do not put down some other fans, the majority of which do not agree with you.

I am looking forward to the last game.

I also think that we have something to build on and we will be a playoff team next year, because of what we (the coaches and players) have done this year.

[cvillehog]

If you keep going nuts with commas in your posts, SkinsJock, the Grammar Nazis are going to come out of the woodwork...

[SkinsJock]

my bad cville! I'll keep it in mind - i was just running my mouth again!

[welch]

f you keep going nuts with commas in your posts, SkinsJock, the Grammar Nazis are going to come out of the woodwork...

Commas are good.
Commas are good.
Commas are good.

(my summary of Strunk & White)

[Redskin in Canada]

you morons have lost your minds.

That's the spirit...

Is there any mod around to enforce the rules of the board in this thread?

and your fans have a right to be pissed.

The right to your opinion is not questionable. There is criticism and then there is frustration. It is quite possible that behind all that anger of yours there is some rationale. But your anger is so overwhelming that it obscures your views.

When a fan uses this board as an anger management tool, others have a right to react to it too. If your criticisms are constructive and intelligent, you will know about it. When they are not, well, you will find the laws of physics on action and reaction come your way without question.

I really believe that you can contribute valuable points to the discussion if you try to make them. But you may need to take a breather before you shoot in all directions and take your frustration on the players, coaches and other fellow Skins fans.

Calm down. I look forward to read constructive and positive posts from you and all other fans here.

[hailskins666]

you morons have lost your minds.

That's the spirit...

Is there any mod around to enforce the rules of the board in this thread?

yes. i actually said something in another thread. http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10235&start=20
so, dcd, you've actually had 2 warnings today.

[die cowboys die]

i took a good deal of space to articulate very specific and rational criticisms of the way the game was managed. i might add that i have heard very little in the way of "constructive" response to these criticisms. if someone can explain to me why these decisions were made, i would like to hear it.

as far as venting my frustration, that is clearly one of the points of a board like this. to have a community in which you can share ideas AND feelings about your team. what defines a "fan" is that he has some sort of emotional attachment to the team. if you are solely interested in stats and strategy, you are a fan of football in general, but not any specific team. this is a team-specific site.

you have every right to disagree with my feelings and even express how you feel about them in return. but don't tell me that my criticisms aren't "constructive" or "intelligent". read them and respond, explain the coaching decisions to me.

[JPFair]

2. but let's back up. there were 2 or 3 minutes left when we got the ball on offense. they had all 3 time-outs. THAT MEANS THAT YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY MOVE THE BALL. that means that running straight forward into a PILE on the line of scrimmage for NO YARDS is completely POINTLESS because it's not going to run any time off the clock, which is the point of running in those situations.

I can assure you, you have it all wrong. The complaint you have should be with the execution of the plays, not with the coaches. In referance to your comments above, Joe Gibbs' confidence in his players is such that running the ball three times in a row, the odds are high that a first down will be had. You mention that "running straight forward into a pile on the line of scrimmage for NO YARDS is completely pointless because it's not going to run any time off the clock". Well, it wasn't Joe Gibbs that ran into the pile, was it? Running it up the middle keeps the ball in play, reduces the risk of a turnover, and relies on the possibility of 3.3 yards per carry. In this instance, it didn't work that way.

You're a typical example of the modern day NFL fan. You want to see long passing plays, huge gains, and points on the board. If we did not run the ball three consecutive times, what would we do? Throw the ball, thereby increasing the possibility of an interception? How bout throwing an incompletion, allowing the clock to stop without anyone burning a time-out?

one might argue that the defense had been good, so just punt it back and lean on the D. NO, i'm sorry- we'd been leaning HARD on them allllllll game

Joe Gibbs, after consulting with Greg Williams, displayed the ultimate vote of confidence by leaning on his defense in this case. I can assure you, everyone of those defensive players were primed and ready for the challenge that they were facing, and in fact welcomed it. If the Defense have been doing it all year long, why NOT ask them to do it again? It shows that Joe and Greg have faith in their players, which is more than I can say about you. In this case, it didn't work out! Things like this happen in football.

Contrary to what you think, Joe Gibbs play calling and game management were spot on in this game. The decision to run the ball and subsequently relying on the defense was the right thing to do. Think of how much faith the players must have in their coaches when the coaches have that much faith in the players. What better way to show the confidence that the coaches have in the players by asking your defense to do what they've done all year long, and to do it with the game on the line!! It's like a pitcher in the World Series. Every pitcher would love to pitch in the bottom of the ninth inning of a game 7 World Series, with the bases loaded and two outs and try and get the final out. That's what Athletes thrive on.

3. ANTONIO BROWN NEEDS TO BE CUT. yes, i mean from the team, but also with razors. rusty, rusty razors. someone needs to smash his hands with a sledgehammer. i told my girlfriend "we're going to lose, because this idiot is going to try to do something stupid with this punt instead of just taking a fair catch. this is the kind of thing we do every year to give them the game" and 5 seconds later it happened!!! so for this, brown needs to die a slow painful death, but the coaches need a severe beating because they should have told him in no uncertain terms FAIR CATCH THIS F____ING FOOTBALL. DO NOT EVEN TRY TO RUN WITH IT.

By getting this angry, you're re-assuring me just how wrong you are. Take a Valium and relax. Don't blame your anger management issues on one of the greatest coaches to ever set foot on a football field.

i don't care how long he's been out of the game, for a hall of fame coach to make these idiotic and amateur coaching decisions is inexcusable. it's common sense game management!
how can i go into the offseason with any hope for next year when we are still this awful in even the most basic aspects of the game?

You, my friend, are the amateur in this case. To say that what he's done in this game is "inexcusable"? Every single post you make after a Redskins loss is a painfull example of what's wrong with some fans. Your comments about Joe Gibbs making "amateurish" and "idiotic" decisions that you consider to be "common sense" are borderline hilarious, if not downright despicable. Yes, you have every right to express your opinion and I welcome it. But, if you're gonna be angry, do it in a tactful, professional, and most importantly accurate manner. Because, every part of your post is the exact opposite!!!

[redskincity]

I do agree with everyone on this subject.

I agree Joe made about 6 boneheaded playcalls, that kept our Defense on the field.

1. On 3 and 1 he called a pass play.

2. On 3rd and 2 he called a pass play

3. On 3 and 1 again he called a pass play.

4. On 3 and 4 he called a pass play.

5. On 3 and 3 he called a pass play.

6. On 3 and inches he called a pass play.

All of these were 3 in outs by the way.


The plays I mentioned above, I watched and I saw the safeties deep.

We were averaging 3.4 yards per carry with 8 in the box, atleast half of the boneheaded plays should have been accounted for.

No freebies here.

He is human and makes mistakes and he admits it.

I have a problem with fans who see obvious mistakes and then turn the cheek because its "Joe Gibbs."(Brunell)

[Redskin in Canada]

Thank you for your post.

See, for example:

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... ht=#102406

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... ht=#103532

Nobody has all the right answers. Mine above may be wrong or they may be challenged by others. I am willing to learn from more knowledgeable fans. I mean this. There are some true jewels in this site if we look carefully.

Nobody questions anybody's love or emotional attachment to our team. We are all Skins fans. But we have choices. We can look for ideas and information. We can try to be positive to help the people in this board that truly -suffers- after ech and every loss. We can show support for our team -even- if we disagree with the choices they make and we acknowledge our disagreement here.

You are right. There is indeed a positive element about venting (a catharsys). It is part of the psychologic recovery process. But there is a fine line between letting it out and hurting other people (and their own recovery) in the process. I appreciate your effort to post the above message and I wish to give you the best response I can.

Please help me make our site a place where core Skins fans get together to support one another and their team. I sincerely believe that you can contribute well to our board (and life in general) if you win the battle against anger for control of your mind.

[BringThePain!]

There are some true jewels in this site if we look carefully.

Awww... he called me a jewel..