a HANDOFF is not a LATERAL (we got a TD stolen by refs)

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:45 am

i've been looking all over for the rules about what constitutes a "forward lateral" and everything i've found so far seems to indicate that it has to be a PASS of some sort--- that is to say, it must leave one player's hands, pass through the air, then have the other catch it.

SEAN TAYLOR HANDED THE BALL OFF on that INT return for TD. the frickin' ref even stated the words "handed forward". CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE CRAP A HANDOFF IS EVER ILLEGAL??? i'm pretty darn sure it is NOT, no matter HOW far you are past the line of scrimmage. once again, the refs stole a TD from us (they usually like to give them to the other team instead, but it has the same net result).

anyways, i hate the refs and they need to die. the "hands to the face" call on smoot was just further evidence that these people suffer from hallucinations.

Gibbs4Life · Post by **Gibbs4Life** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:58 am

This season there have been a ridiculous amount of BAD BAD CALLS go against the Redskins, most notably division games esp.DAL & PHI, its almost to the level of conspiracy. Maybe Gibbs will do something in the offseason appealing to the league for apology's and what-not.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:56 am

die cowboys die wrote:SEAN TAYLOR HANDED THE BALL OFF on that INT return for TD. the frickin' ref even stated the words "handed forward". CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE CRAP A HANDOFF IS EVER ILLEGAL??? i'm pretty darn sure it is NOT, no matter HOW far you are past the line of scrimmage. once again, the refs stole a TD from us (they usually like to give them to the other team instead, but it has the same net result).

You can only Hand the ball forward if you are behind the Lin of Scrimmage. Thats the rule, but What's the line of scrimmage on a int :?:

Now I'd like to see the refs explain that one

Then they can explain where in the rule book it says you can penalize a team after the review ( they backed us up 5 yards for the Forward Hadnoff) We should have had the ball at the spot of the handoff

Warmother · Post by **Warmother** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:42 am

On an int. return a player can not advance the ball down the field by handing it forward to another player. He can hand it backward or lateral it backward. The officials treat a handoff the same as a lateral. As far as the line of scrimage there is none on a return, just like a punt or kickoff return the ball must go backwards on an exchange to go forward. The refs were right with this one.

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:31 am

Agreed, Warmother. When you consider the fact that the "handoff" was bobbled on the exchange(due to oncoming traffic), we're lucky that ball wasn't dropped.
At any rate the exchange went forward by a good half yard, like a very short shovel pass.
Splitting hairs to be sure, but I can live with that call.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:42 am

Warmother wrote:On an int. return a player can not advance the ball down the field by handing it forward to another player. He can hand it backward or lateral it backward. The officials treat a handoff the same as a lateral. As far as the line of scrimage there is none on a return, just like a punt or kickoff return the ball must go backwards on an exchange to go forward. The refs were right with this one.

I agree it was a forward hand off and the play should have come back however we were also penalized 5 yards for the infraction and thats not what instant replay was put in for.

If you can review a play to see if the ball was lateral forward and then penalize the team that did it, then if a review is done to check the spot of the ball and a offense holding is noticed then that penalty should be marked off.

The call was correct but they didn't place the ball at the spot of the infraction. They marked of 5 yards from the spot of the infraction

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:27 pm

It was a good call!

Actually, I was surprised that Taylor even tried it. I was thinking he should have taken the fall and be happy with the int.

ANT7088 · Post by **ANT7088** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:48 pm

die cowboys die wrote:i've been looking all over for the rules about what constitutes a "forward lateral" and everything i've found so far seems to indicate that it has to be a PASS of some sort--- that is to say, it must leave one player's hands, pass through the air, then have the other catch it.

SEAN TAYLOR HANDED THE BALL OFF on that INT return for TD. the frickin' ref even stated the words "handed forward". CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE CRAP A HANDOFF IS EVER ILLEGAL??? i'm pretty darn sure it is NOT, no matter HOW far you are past the line of scrimmage. once again, the refs stole a TD from us (they usually like to give them to the other team instead, but it has the same net result).

anyways, i hate the refs and they need to die. the "hands to the face" call on smoot was just further evidence that these people suffer from hallucinations.

It was a good call, no matter how the ball ends up in your hands, if it's past the line of scrimmage it can't go foward. If anyone thinks that is a bad rule then McNabb or Vick would be able to role out, run foward 15 yards (till everyone is going at them) THEN throw the ball for another 50 yards! It was still GREAT awareness & a GREAT effort by a rookie.

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:59 pm

no, ANT, that would be a forward PASS, i'm talking about a HANDOFF. if the other posters are correct and a "forward handoff" is illegal, there are still a bunch of things that make this stupid:

* as 1niksder asked, "what's the line of scrimmage on an INT return?"

* it makes absolutely no logical sense to say that any kind of hand-off anywhere at any time could ever be illegal. a handoff involves three steps:
1. player 1 has sole possession
2. player 1 and player 2 have possession simultaneously (if even for half a second)
3. player 2 has sole possession

---there is absolutely nothing illegal about any of these things- it is not illegal to share posession of the ball. therefore they really cannot say that a "forward handoff" is illegal.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:16 pm

die cowboys die wrote:no, ANT, that would be a forward PASS, i'm talking about a HANDOFF. if the other posters are correct and a "forward handoff" is illegal, there are still a bunch of things that make this stupid:

* as 1niksder asked, "what's the line of scrimmage on an INT return?"

* it makes absolutely no logical sense to say that any kind of hand-off anywhere at any time could ever be illegal. a handoff involves three steps:
1. player 1 has sole possession
2. player 1 and player 2 have possession simultaneously (if even for half a second)
3. player 2 has sole possession

---there is absolutely nothing illegal about any of these things- it is not illegal to share posession of the ball. therefore they really cannot say that a "forward handoff" is illegal.

The problem is the Ref called it a forward handoff instead of a forward lateral. The "lateral" or "handoff" is only legal if it takes place behind the spot of the interception.
I have not problem with the call after the review because the refs made the right call. But we should not have been penalized the 5 yards on top of calling the play back. We should have gotten the ball at the spot of the "handoff" or "lateral" not 5 yards behind that spot

Justice Hog · Post by **Justice Hog** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:34 pm

This was a good call, folks. Stop whining about it. We have plenty of bad REF calls this year to whine about. That wasn't one of them.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:57 pm

I agree JH. This was not a bad call by the officials.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:04 pm

Justice Hog wrote:This was a good call, folks. Stop whining about it. We have plenty of bad REF calls this year to whine about. That wasn't one of them.

Again I agree with the call but there shouldn't have been a penalty assesed after the review.

When has anyone seen a penalty called after a instant replay?
.... it has never happen.

curveball · Post by **curveball** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:05 am

1niksder wrote:
Justice Hog wrote:This was a good call, folks. Stop whining about it. We have plenty of bad REF calls this year to whine about. That wasn't one of them.

Again I agree with the call but there shouldn't have been a penalty assesed after the review.

When has anyone seen a penalty called after a instant replay?
.... it has never happen.

It has happened before. "Illegal forward pass" is about the only play where this is the case, the only one that they are actually reviewing whether or not a penalty occurred. I've seen the penalty be enforced when the QB had crossed the LOS, and once against the Bears' defense last season or the year before.

CrazyLikeAFox87 · Post by **CrazyLikeAFox87** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:21 pm

I think it should have been a TD. As the commentators were saying, the ball did leave Taylor's hands but it actually was level or slightly backwards before Marshall gained possession. Although Marshall was in front of Taylor, Taylor's hand, with the ball, was extended forward and flipped the ball to Marshall. The line of scrimmage is where the ball leaves Taylor's hand. Don't be put off by Marshall's position but if you watch the ball, it does not go forward.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:24 pm

die cowboys die wrote:i've been looking all over for the rules about what constitutes a "forward lateral" and everything i've found so far seems to indicate that it has to be a PASS of some sort--- that is to say, it must leave one player's hands, pass through the air, then have the other catch it.

SEAN TAYLOR HANDED THE BALL OFF on that INT return for TD. the frickin' ref even stated the words "handed forward". CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE CRAP A HANDOFF IS EVER ILLEGAL??? i'm pretty darn sure it is NOT, no matter HOW far you are past the line of scrimmage. once again, the refs stole a TD from us (they usually like to give them to the other team instead, but it has the same net result).

anyways, i hate the refs and they need to die. the "hands to the face" call on smoot was just further evidence that these people suffer from hallucinations.

I totally agree. I was yelling at the TV when the announcers kept saying it was a forward lateral. I couln'd beleive it when they overturned the TD.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:03 pm

Justice Hog wrote:This was a good call, folks. Stop whining about it. We have plenty of bad REF calls this year to whine about. That wasn't one of them.

Talking about whining...

I hated the call for hands to the face by Smoot on third down. -Even- the announcers were saying that it was a horrible call. It kept the drive alive that gave them their first TD.

ANT7088 · Post by **ANT7088** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:22 pm

die cowboys die wrote:no, ANT, that would be a forward PASS, i'm talking about a HANDOFF. if the other posters are correct and a "forward handoff" is illegal, there are still a bunch of things that make this stupid:

* as 1niksder asked, "what's the line of scrimmage on an INT return?"

* it makes absolutely no logical sense to say that any kind of hand-off anywhere at any time could ever be illegal. a handoff involves three steps:
1. player 1 has sole possession
2. player 1 and player 2 have possession simultaneously (if even for half a second)
3. player 2 has sole possession

---there is absolutely nothing illegal about any of these things- it is not illegal to share posession of the ball. therefore they really cannot say that a "forward handoff" is illegal.

Yes, whether it's a "forward pass" or a "handoff" that goes foward, if you're past the LOS it's illegal.

I'm not sure where the LOS is on a INT, but I'm sure it's either the original spot it was snapped from OR where he intercepted the ball, either way he was past it.

Are you saying McNabb can run past the LOS then hand the ball foward to the guy in front of him so he can continue the run???? No, it's illegal! If he ran past the LOS, turned around & threw it 20 yards backwards or handed it to the guy behind him, it a legal play!

Redskins Rule · Post by **Redskins Rule** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:37 pm

I don't think we would be talking about this one play right now had the refs not SCREWED US on about fifty plays this year.

I say this was a handoff that went backwards all because the refs have just screwed us and screwed us and screwed us all year long. Why should I believe that they finally got one right after they've gotten so many wrong?

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:31 pm

Redskins Rule wrote:I don't think we would be talking about this one play right now had the refs not SCREWED US on about fifty plays this year.

I say this was a handoff that went backwards all because the refs have just screwed us and screwed us and screwed us all year long. Why should I believe that they finally got one right after they've gotten so many wrong?

If we had won any of the games where we got screwed by a bad call, we would now control our own playoff destiny.

Primetime42 · Post by **Primetime42** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:17 pm

One more time...

Would you people PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING AND WHINING ABOUT THE OFFICIATING?! Yes, there have been bad calls, but as I have stated in many a thread, it is LEAGUE WIDE!!! NOBODY IS PLOTTING AGAINST YOUR BELOVED REDSKINS!!!

Please, please PLEASE give it a rest.

CrazyLikeAFox87 · Post by **CrazyLikeAFox87** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:24 pm

Primetime42 wrote:One more time...

Would you people PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING AND WHINING ABOUT THE OFFICIATING?! Yes, there have been bad calls, but as I have stated in many a thread, it is LEAGUE WIDE!!! NOBODY IS PLOTTING AGAINST YOUR BELOVED REDSKINS!!!

Please, please PLEASE give it a rest.

If you don't like the posts here, why do you hang around?

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:25 pm

Primetime42 wrote:One more time...

Would you people PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING AND WHINING ABOUT THE OFFICIATING?! Yes, there have been bad calls, but as I have stated in many a thread, it is LEAGUE WIDE!!! NOBODY IS PLOTTING AGAINST YOUR BELOVED REDSKINS!!!

Please, please PLEASE give it a rest.

Oh please! Of course a Dallas fan won't complain about the officiating in the NFL. Most of the bad calls just happen to go their way, doesn't matter who is the opponent.

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:33 pm

I believe you can consider where the ball's forward progress is to be the line. In any case, the guy who received the "handoff" was forward of both Taylor and the ball, and the ball had to travel forward to reach him.
The call could've gone either way. You can bet I'd've liked to have gotten away with one there, but in the end it didn't matter.
Taylor should watch some old Tennessee Titans film on how best to do a lateral.

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:37 pm

...What I like about Taylor is he is always trying make plays.

Wheter it's him constantly tring to strip the ball or the big hits and now this lateral pass, dude is a beast!

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a HANDOFF is not a LATERAL (we got a TD stolen by refs)

a HANDOFF is not a LATERAL (we got a TD stolen by refs)

Re: a HANDOFF is not a LATERAL (we got a TD stolen by refs)

Re: a HANDOFF is not a LATERAL (we got a TD stolen by refs)

Re: a HANDOFF is not a LATERAL (we got a TD stolen by refs)