The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Gibbs expressed concern yesterday about Washington's inability to produce long passes, but dismissed the notion that the left-handed Brunell's throwing arm lacked strength.

Man, I didn't know whether to put this in the smack forum or not. Forreal, Gibbs is really taking this a bit far with that statement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25447-2004Oct11.html

Gibbs reminded the reporters that they had seen Brunnell throw in practice. Nobody disputed him. I take that to mean that they had seen, and agreed.

**** PRACTICE!!!!

Everybody plays right in practice, the games matter. Brunell clearly doesnt have the arm, but I guess Joe says no so its gospel.

Chrissy, you're starting to get on my nerves here, baby.
You're not allowing for a man who knows more about football than you and I and everybody else on this board ever will.
This is not a man who is afraid to admit a mistake. He will, in a heartbeat, take a man out of a game if he feels that there is a viable alternative roaming the sideline.
Apparently, he does not.
By your own admission, your first experience with a Redskin team was one of Norval's babies. Not a "Gold Standard", by any means.
You're allowed to be frustrated, but you must also allow the team to experience growing pains. This team is in its infancy. What you thought we'd jump right into "adultery" ?
Look at it this way. If everything goes the right way, we could go 12-4 on the season.
We could also go 11-5, 10-6, 9-7...(I'll let you finish the math.) The point is, the team has not done so badly that they deserve to be abandoned by its fanbase. Let's look at ourselves long and hard in the mirror for a minute.
Where's your heart ? That's right. Right there with the Redskins, where it belongs.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I think I have a pretty good handle on who you are, and what you're all about.
This isn't you, and you know it.
Knock it off.

That's what I'm talking about TC!

Redskins rule!!!! #1 baby #1

All I know is that the offensive production seems to be decreasing every week and Joe Gibb's loyalty to Brunell isn't helping. Brunell looked awful last game. He had recievers open and couldn't hit them, instead bounced it at their feet. I for one blame the loss to baltimore almost 90% on him. Betts missed that block and the special teams gave up that TD. But running out of bounds for a loss, and throw it away every play is not how you win a game.

Brunell is averaging only 5.6 yards per pass completion -- worst in the NFC -- and has completed only two passes for more than 30 yards.

That sums it up. He sucks. I just don't think Gibbs can accept the fact that its not working. They gave up alot to acquire Brunell and admitting that it was a mistake is going to take alot.

When you have a player thats not working, how come you can't put in a backup. If a lineman is continously missing blocks and blowing assignments, you replace him, but for some reason, its not allowed with the qb? I don't get it.

90%?! I can't agree with you on that when people are tackling Portis in the backfield or at the line of scrimmage almost every single play. Brunell is definitely not looking good but neither is any aspect of the offense. I'll agree it doesn't look good right now but blame cannot be placed solely on Brunell. We unfortunately are going to have to be patient. Man I hate being patient...but Gibbs will right the ship, slowly but surely.

trey53 wrote:blame cannot be placed solely on Brunell.

or PORTIS or THE WIDE RECIEVER CORPS or THE O-LINE on that prety much covers everyone ..our offense just is not worth a crap right now but like we all have said ... IN GIBBS WE TRUST !!!!.. THANK GOD FOR CHRIS COOLEY !!!

Once again, why is portis getting slammed at the line of scrimmage. Cause there is no passing game and our OL isn't strong enough to move 9 people out of the way every play. Take that corner blitz that came from about 30 yards out and tackled portis in the backfield for a 2 yard loss, could that have happened if there was a thought of throwing the ball pass the first down marker. Probably not. And why Brunell didn't see him charging and change the snap on him is beyond me. That play alone sealed his fate in my book. Gibbs will right the ship when he throws brunell overboard.

I disagree. The O-line has NOT been opening holes at all. It is not just because there isn't a passing game. If a line wants it enough they can open holes even with eight in the box. Plus you are forgetting that the WRs have done an excellent job of dropping passes placed right in their chest at times. AND Ramsey SUCKED in the preseason and in his only action of the regular season. I think it is ludicrous to think that getting rid of Brunell is going to be the magic answer. I'm sure that would have been Spurrier's answer to the problem. I have to admit that Brunell's play has caused me to knee jerk question his starting role but when looked at closely there are major problems across the board on the offense and Brunell may be, for better or worse, our best answer at QB. And No I am not happy with Brunell's play...I just don't think that anyone can say that the Skin's woes are all his fault. BTW, Betts should have blocked Reed on that blitz but he missed it and then missed the tackle after reed picked up the ball.

I'm not talking about the fumble by reed, I'm talking about the time after that when he came flying in again and tackeld portis basically one step after the hand off. For a 2 yard loss

If we never change we'll never know, but in the giants game, despite the ints, ramsey was able to move the offense.

PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
P. Ramsey 9/18 142 1 3
M. Brunell 10/18 92 1 1

This is our only somewhat comparable game since its against the same team, ramsey did better, and if I recall, the major dropped pass that would have one us the game was gardner in the end zone was thrown by ramsey:

2-7-NYG7 (1:40) P.Ramsey pass incomplete to R.Gardner. Should have been a touchdown,

Next play:
3-7-NYG7 (1:29) P.Ramsey pass intended for L.Coles INTERCEPTED by B.Alexander at NYG 0. Touchback.

doro wrote

I just don't think Gibbs can accept the fact that its not working.

Gibbs can accept that something isn't working. He has done that since he started here in '81.

Gibbs came is as the designer of "Air Coryell". He changed his ofense as he and Dan Henning reconsidered how they would use Riggins and Joe T and Art Monk. They decided that Joe T had different strengths than Dan Fouts, and they figured out a way to use Joe Washington without making him a blocker for Riggins.

In '82, he had to change the offense again because Joe Washington and Art Monk got hurt before the playoffs.

After '84, teams had begun to jam the line, and both Joe T and Riggins were finished. The SB22 team worked differently than SB17. Note the Posse and the counter-trey in SB 22: not in SB17. Doug Williams was smart, like Joe T., but not a quick scrambler. Williams was taller, and had a stronger arm, but also had a soft touch on his throws. Gibbs adapted.

Williams went down with appendicitis the next year, then retired with an off-season knee injury. (No, not an Aaron Boone. Williams was working on an exercise bike when his knee gave way). Rypien was even slower than Williams, had poor footwork, but had a strong arm, game-smarts, and toughness like Williams.

Gibbs dropped George Rogers for Gerald Riggs, and then benched Riggs when he found that Ernest Byner had more spark.

OK, Gibbs adapts. He is refining the offense right now.

I expect the Redskins to beat the Bears.

2-7-NYG7 (1:40) P.Ramsey pass incomplete to R.Gardner. Should have been a touchdown,

Next play:
3-7-NYG7 (1:29) P.Ramsey pass intended for L.Coles INTERCEPTED by B.Alexander at NYG 0. Touchback.

That actually proves my point. Gardner dropped the ball. Not the QBs fault. Plus I don't think one TD and three ints beat one td and one int. I know Ramsey moved the offense but that doesn't matter a bit if you go all the way down the field and throw an int. Don't get me wrong here, I do like Ramsey. I just don't think he's any better or worse than Brunell right now...our problems are deeper than the QB play. Anyway, our converstion aside, as long as Gibbs thinks Ramsey is worse or even as good as Brunell, he's gonna ride the bench.

I was sitting at home yesterday and decided to review the offense starting in the 2nd half. I used TIVO to slow-mo and freeze frame to get a look at what was happening. Here is what I saw:

1) Brunell rarely dropped back and threw to the #1 option. I could not see down field to see if recievers were open. By Brunell's reaction, either receivers were not open or Brunell just chose not to throw it to option #1. This is a huge problem if the #1 option is not working (play calling, system or personnel?) It just seems that Brunell is having to search too hard to find receivers.

2) When Brunell started looking for the 2nd+ option he looked as though he didn't trust his protection. He often threw without taking the time to get his feet under him. Hence, poor throws.

3) Brunell often took 7 step drops, and he takes a big 7 step drop. This put him well behind the line making all his throws long and it spreads out the pocket making it difficult for the OL to keep a pocket (our OL is not that nifty, it may be easier for them to stay closer together). 5 step drops are quicker, the defense has less time to react, the pocket is tighter, and the QB is closer to the target. I don't know maybe something to think about.

4) It did not look like we tried to throw deep (as a #1 option very much). The first attempt was when Betts could not even "chip" Reed and the result was TD Baltimore. At least dive at his knees and cut him if you are beat (plays like this may be where Brunell is getting jittery). The 2nd attempt was on 3rd and 6? when Deion made the pick. Firstly, that is not a risky play, an Int is the same as a punt. Secondly, the ball traveled 55+ yards in the air (decent long ball). Thirdly, our fastest? WR was step for step with 37 year old Deion who was easily gliding with Coles (90% sure it was Coles?) and Deion who was in the exact position as Coles went up and got the ball. I guess we should have signed Deion as a WR.

Side note: I turn on SportsCenter and see all these highlights of TD passes with WR's having 2-3 steps on the secondary; have we had that once this year?

5) I also watched our running game. Almost every run is with the OL running sideways pulling to the left or the right. The Baltimore defense just ran with them keeping a giant ball of bodies rolling left or right. Portis had nowhere to go. Last night watching the Titans Chris Brown destroy Green Bay. The Titans used very simple seal blocking, it was not so obvious to the defense where the play was going, so everything was spread out more and Brown could pick his hole and had room to make plays. It just seemed so much simpler and effective.

I feel bad for Brunell, I think he is getting more blame than he deserves, HOWEVER, I will say the current gig ain't working. If the game plan stays status quo, then you might as well plug in a new QB, there are no other personnel changes available. Unfortunatly, I don't think the end result is going to change much.

C'mon Appendicitis~! :0).
Brunell holds the ball too long and his delivery looks like Jerry Lewis sneezing. It's certainly not all Brunell's fault - but he's the QB. He's in charge of making it work - even when it's not supposed to work. He's the one that should improvise, lead and put the ball in the endzone. Not happnin.' I know it's sacrilege to say Gibbs is anything less than perfect... but he's making costly mistakes at this point. I love him, he's my guy - but I my expectations of him are much higher than lesser men. The players are not executing on offense, the game plan is weak, time outs, clock management is poor - somebody needs to answer for those profound mistakes.

Scooter wrote:Brunell holds the ball too long and his delivery looks like Jerry Lewis sneezing.

And Ramsey doesn't hold on to the ball too long??? I love
Ramsey but I still think Brunell is the better player here, even with his stats diminishing.

Scooter wrote: I know it's sacrilege to say Gibbs is anything less than perfect... but he's making costly mistakes at this point. I love him, he's my guy - but I my expectations of him are much higher than lesser men.

I think I huge issue with the skins is the fact that everyone in the whole nation had huge expectations for Gibbs. He needs time. I had anticipated 5-11 or even 4-12. Even though it is tough to admitt it, it is a REBUILDING YEAR! I love the skins to death and I'm sick of all this fairweather fan talk.

I'll take my chances with the young buck in a rebuilding year. I was guessing 8-8 here. High expectations, but not unrealistic. I'm not sure I can drink enough to withstand 4-12... but I'll try :0).

I don't care what ANYBODY says! Brunell lacks arm strength. You dont have to be a football guru to see that. Gibbs said he doesn't have a weak arm...

So I guess since Gibbs said it me and thousands of other people are obviously wrong .

I said nothing about the offense, Portis, or the line. This thread was ABOUT Brunell and his arm. Not about the offense in general.

I think the lack of arm strength is a little of the "Emperors new clothes". When Brunell drops back plants and throws, he puts mustard on it. However, when he is undecided (or can't find anyone) he throws poorly. It's not arm strength, it's his mechanics when he is hesitant. He needs to fix that. I just believe that the underlying problems mentioned (off topic?) is the problem, not arm strength.

Yes, the whole offensive scheme is a bit ridiculous. I don't know what Gibbs is building to here.

We have more offensive pieces than the Eagles.

this is so frustrating!


wonker

Man this is painful to watch. But Gibbs does not like turnovers and I think PR makes him too nervous.

Chris Luva Luva wrote: So I guess since Gibbs said it me and thousands of other people are obviously wrong .

Yes, sure, positively, unquestionably, definitely, totally, affirmatively, for sure, yep!

You were wrong before, you are wrong now, you will be wrong for as many times as you come back to us with this!

Yes, you are also wrong about the -thousands- of fans thing.

Nobody said that a young Skins fan on a looooong learning curve should be right always, most of the times, some of the times, very few of the times, oe ... whatever.

You get the picture.

Man, if I had to take you seriously, you would be on my nerves. But I take it in a good mood.

Afeter a detailed and careful analysis of your texts, the doctor diagnoses a fool-proof medicine for you:

A win. yep, that's it. A good glorius win win on the road.

Waiter, please, could you please bring a win, a glorious win, to the table of my fellow Skin fan CLL? Thanks.

Yes, you are also wrong about the -thousands- of fans thing.

I disagree with that. The media, ESPN, Fox Sports, people on other forums all seem to agree that Brunell has a weak arm. Im not going to back down off of that notion. Now Im not debating whether Gibbs knows how to do his job, I know he does and he can do it a lot better than me. But I will NOT agree to the fact that Brunell has a strong enough arm to hit the deep passes. Now I also heard that what Gibbs said is that his arm is strong enough for his offense. Now thats a matter of opinion and since it is his offense he's at liberty to say what he wants. But Brunell has shown us game after game that he doesn't have the mustard to push the ball downfield effectively. If he did, he'd be doing it.

Mark can throw a deep pass, but it has no whistle to it. He throws ballons.