The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 2004 4:10 pm**

CZAR: Gibbs' Redskins might not be great
John Czarnecki / FOX Sports
Posted: 20 hours ago

There is an interesting concept being discussed around the NFL these days: Maybe Joe Gibbs, the Hall of Fame coach, won't be a miracle worker in Washington this season.

It sounds sacrilegious to say, but Washington's offense hasn't resembled one of Gibbs' former Super Bowl teams, plus opposing coaches aren't sure quarterback Mark Brunell has enough in his legs to take the Redskins to the playoffs, let alone the Super Bowl. And then there is the point that Clinton Portis isn't the power running back that Gibbs and Washington always employed during its run to glory.

Gibbs has admitted that he's playing in a different NFL than the one he left. Sure, owner Daniel Snyder has again dipped mightily into his checkbook — his payroll is estimated at $110 million this year — but in the old days the late Jack Kent Cooke paid with both hands, too, plus his franchise was great at stockpiling players and breaking the rules. Snyder can't match Cooke because too many of his peers are watching.

The safest thing to say about Gibbs is that his team will be better prepared on Sundays than anything Steve Spurrier put on the field. But it doesn't look like they will be a match for Philadelphia and Dallas in the NFC East.

Still, the East is such a great coaching division with Gibbs, Bill Parcells and Tom Coughlin with the Giants and Andy Reid in Philadelphia.

"All I want to know," Reid asked me, "is if I win the division again, does that mean I belong in the Hall of Fame?"

Reid was being facetious, yet he fully understands what he's up against this season. Kidding aside, he realizes it won't be easy trying to win another division title and reach a fourth consecutive NFC championship game. Reid is a traditionalist in a lot of ways, and he's aware of the coaching legends he will face. He knows Gibbs and Parcells aren't about to screw up a game.

"The coaching staff is a big improvement," said a rival NFC coach of Washington. "Gregg Williams is an excellent defensive coach, so that side of the ball will always be in the right formations. It will be interesting to see how Joe does because I don't think he's safe at quarterback, and that's such an important position in his offense. And the kid (Patrick Ramsey) still looks like he's shell-shocked from last season and all the hits he took."

How Gibbs and Snyder deal with this season, especially if it's a mediocre one, will be the story in Washington this year. Neither man wants to fail, plus Snyder will be out of miracle workers if Gibbs doesn't put this franchise in the playoffs. And, basically, that might be a lot of ask of him, despite his Hall of Fame credentials.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2867258

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 2004 4:25 pm**

someone doesn't know his history - Gibbs started 0-5 his first year and went on to 8-8...

I never expected a miracle other than having the idiocy of penalties, turnovers, stupid schemes, good players being benched for nothing, no game planning, 5 man blocking schemes vs. 8 men blitzing to stop.

These alone will allow us to compete better.

I love the fact that the fools in the media look at what is on the field and don't consult rosters enough to see who is playing when and that we have had scrubs in as early as the first quarter.

How quickly the media flip flops in order to seem like geniuses if Gibbs fails - they were all praising the heck out of the Skins vs. Miami...

Let's see - we had backups on the Dline by the third series even with the Rams playing their starters for the half... we had third stringers in by the second quarter... we had major defensive players not even play more than a series or two and Arrington, Daniels and Barrow not even show up...

What the heck ever...

When all 11 starters are on the field for both halves and Portis gets 25 carries and Gibbs' offensive line isn't allowing sacks and the defense is getting pressure, sacks and turnovers - these self same prophets will all be kowtowing to Gibbs' brilliance and talking like they knew it all along...

There are some stories not even worth posting when they are so inaccurate

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 2004 4:43 pm**

Rich I couldn't agree with you more. The fact that Gibbs and company will protect the quarterback will make us a better team. We will be prepared this year. We will be disciplined and we will play hard. Gibbs may not be a miracle worker but he belongs in the NFL, Spurrier didn't.

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 2004 4:50 pm**

keep articles like this comin'. keep listing the skins as underdogs. that's just the way gibbs wants it. it makes it that much easier to beat teams that think they can walk all over us.

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 2004 4:56 pm**

joebagadonuts wrote:keep listing the skins as underdogs.

amen! perhaps i'll re-read this thread without a hot head later but im totally po'd that this jabroni is disrespecting GIBBS (bow when you say that name) before a real game is even played.

Philly fans, you haven't jack to show for reid's tenure. great coach yes -- no rings yes.

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:24 pm**

It is a possiblity, I just dont think its likely. I dont exactly remember, but does anyone have any clue how many games we lost in the fourth quarter last year? I think it was like 4. Well At this point in time we can consider all four of those loses wins. That takes our record too 9-7. Thats one Heck of a difference

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:46 pm**

I saw this article earlier, and my blood started to boil. I'd never read any of this guy's work, and this was not a good intro to his style of writing. I'm really looking forward to this guy being proved wrong.

New Monicker for this year's Skins team:

"UnderHogs"....

what do y'all think?

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:02 pm**

Well At this point in time we can consider all four of those loses wins.

We lost those games due to a lack of fundamentals, concentration, discipline, and focus. Those four attributes are readily present in this team this year. These things and others I failed to mention are the difference makers in good teams and great teams. This is Gibbs 1st year, he doesnt have all of his components in place yet. Give him a year or two, we WILL be contenders, if not sooner.

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:43 pm**

Gibbs' Redskins might not be great

I don't expect the Redskins to be great this year; I'm certain they will be be well-coached. I expect them to play above their collective level of talent. That's what Gibbs-coached teams always did.

This is no different now than 12 years ago, or 30 years ago: some coaches do a better job with their players than other coaches do. Norv Turner seemed to get less from his players: it showed in late-season games, in the second half of games, and especially in the second-half of important games. Spurrier did...well, I don't have the patience to describe how bad Spurrier was.

(The journalist's contrast with the JK Cooke days suggests that he is just repeating things he has heard: Cooke paid well, but NFL players had forever-binding contracts. Cooke's advantage was that he would top dollar for pay assistant coaches and player scouts -- but so could any other owner. No free-agency until the last few years, when the NFL went into "Plan B" free-agency. That meant a team could keep a core of 30 or so players, and that the others, the reserves, were free to put themselves on the market...So the SB 26 Redskins could hire Matt Millen for a year, but they couldn't go out and buy Emmitt Smith.)

As everyone else has said, this article is nonsense: Czar disproves (or casts doubt on) something that non one else believed in the first place.

**

I can't wait for the games.

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:17 pm**

plus his franchise was great at stockpiling players and breaking the rules.

I remember us stockpiling players, but not breaking the rules. Where did this guy get that?

The safest thing to say about Gibbs is that his team will be better prepared on Sundays than anything Steve Spurrier put on the field. But it doesn't look like they will be a match for Philadelphia and Dallas in the NFC East.

He's right about that first part. Gibbs will have us prepared. We'll be a match for Philly all right, but Dallas is going to flat out suck this season. Everyone was so quick to hop on the 'Pie bandwagon last season, when they could have just as easily gone 7-9 or 6-10. Their defense kept them in the hunt, but their offense stunk, and it's worse this year. Parcells got them hyped up on emotion, or in Quincy's case, cocaine, and they won a few close ones with some lucky breaks. They will come crashing back down to earth this year, and all those Collinsworths out there will have to slink back under their rocks. The only problem is that, when they jump the 'Pies ship, it will be to come aboard the 'Skins bandwagon, and they will all be saying "I told you so," when nothing could be further from the truth.

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:18 pm**

Whatever. It's just another opinion. Did anyone expect a "rival NFC coach" to say, "Oh, yeah. We're mailing it in. Gibbs is back, and we're just gonna forfeit. Why bother ? He's in the Hall Of Fame."
I think it's funny how Reid uses the word "I" when talking about winning the division.
Haven't seen fatman suit up recently. Have you ?

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:45 pm**

Oh the irony! Gibbs makes all the difference for you guys, but Reid doesn't do anything.

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:49 pm**

Well DUH!!! he is joe gibbs :-P

. Yeah noone here says Andy Reid is anything less than a great coach. And beleive me.. everyone here is saddened greatly by that fact.

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2004 3:28 am**

Whatever!!! He can say what he wants. I mean, I would love 10-6. I'll take 8-8. But I would love 10-6. What this individuals report is based on is other peoples opinions on if he/they will succeed in this 1st season.

Well I would say anything better than what has happened in the last 2yrs, is definitely an improvement(he was kind enough to mention that). But when you add in confidence, structure and the willingness to learn because of these things that "Coach" and his staff brings in, I'll take 8-8, but I'd love 10-6!

Ahhh forget it!!! Give us the Super Bowl!!!!

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:02 am**

joebagadonuts wrote:keep articles like this comin'. keep listing the skins as underdogs. that's just the way gibbs wants it. it makes it that much easier to beat teams that think they can walk all over us.

You got it! Its classic Joe at his best ...

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:41 am**

General Failure wrote:Oh the irony! Gibbs makes all the difference for you guys, but Reid doesn't do anything.

No one says that Reid isn't a good coach, but at this point you can't put him on a level with Parcells and Gibbs, sorry. Those guys are legends, and it remains to be seen if Andy Reid will be a legend too.

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:08 am**

Seriously who really cares what these so-called experts think. The season hasnt even started and I am sure this guy thought Carolina sucked last year at this time. Until the season starts...everyone is undefeated.

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:32 am**

The Pies will take a couple of steps back this season, Philly is an injury or two away from being Arizona and the Gints are still a few years away from competing.

The Skins will not win just 1 division game this year, so I'm definitely thinking 8-8 or sweeter!

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:35 pm**

My point, GF, is that you'll never read or hear of Joe Gibbs saying, "Well, when 'I' won those Super Bowls...".
Your "irony" just grew wings and flew out the window, my friend.