The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

RAMSEY TO START FOR 'SKINS?

Word out of D.C. is that Patrick "Potato Sack" Ramsey will end up winning the starting job over newcomer Mark Brunell, despite the widely held belief that Brunell was in line to nudge Ramsey to the bench.

An industry source says that the former Jaguars starter looks "terrible" in training camp, and that he's picked up the nickname "Out of Bounds" Brunell due to his errant throws.

Our guess is that Brunell will get an ample opportunity to win the job, since the team game him an $8.6 million bonus as part of a seven-year, $34 million deal. Dropping Brunell on the bench would be tantamount to admitting that they made a big mistake.

Don't expect a formal announcement of any such move, if the 'Skins ultimately decides that Ramsey should get the nod. We're hearing that coach Joe Gibbs is paranoid that spies are tracking the team's activities.

Brunell will play with the first unit on Monday night in Canton, and Ramsey will start the second preseason game. They'll continue to flip-flop until the regular season opens.

In our experience, folks who are obsessed that others are up to something usually are the people who have the foreign objects up their sleeves. Look, then, for Gibbs to keep quiet about the status of the starter for as long as possible, in order to diminish the ability of their Week One opponents, the Buccaneers, to prepare to face Ramsey.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

That would make me very happy! If the rumors were that it was Brunell all the way and then...Wham! You've got to face Ramsey with no game plan! Ha Ha that would be great.

Chad

Does anyone who went to training camp agree?

Look, then, for Gibbs to keep quiet about the status of the starter for as long as possible, in order to diminish the ability of their Week One opponents, the Buccaneers, to prepare to face Ramsey.

I couldn't have said it better myself... except that I did 6 days ago.
http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... ght=#59554

Neither has been stellar, but IMHO Ramsey has a slight edge. Both have been erratic. I had been told a month or so ago by someone who knows someone in the organization (objection, that is heresay!) that the starter would depend on the o-line. Good o-line = Ramsey bad o-line = Brunell. O-line has looked dominating (the starters at least). Draw your own conclusions after first deciding if you beleive in heresay!

The only thing that MIGHT be in Ramsey's favor is that the line-blocking schemes would be able to stay in the more-common "LT protects the QB's blind side" configurations.

But seriously, I put little-to-no faith in reporter-wannabe sites like Profootballtalk.com. (Present site company excluded, of course!!!)

That is ridiculous. To think that Gibbs would go out and sign Brunell for big money but already decide Ramsey would get the job half a week into training camp might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

With a bad offensive line, Brunell should start. With a good offensive line, he should start too. This guy is the real deal, 11th most efficent quarterback in NFL history, and despite not having Ramsey's arm, he won't make any big mistakes for Gibbs. And with Portis, that's all we really need from the quarterback.

By the way, there is no basis to the "blind-side left tackle configuration". Yes, the importance of each position might change, but the blocking schemes do not. Trust me, I've played tackle with a right and left handed quarterback in the same game, and nothing changes. Besides, Jansen had the better season last year anyway...

Steve Spurrier III wrote:That is ridiculous. To think that Gibbs would go out and sign Brunell for big money but already decide Ramsey would get the job half a week into training camp might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

I think he may have decided before training camp. They gave Brunell what they thought it would take to bring him in. Gibbs knows you have to have a capable back-up in the NFL. He had seen enough of Patrick on film to know that the kid is an extreme talent. Gibbs like QBs who don't make mistakes, this is true, but he also likes QBs with a strong arm, who can get the ball downfield in a hurry. I think he believes that with good protection, Patrick won't make as many mistakes as he did a year ago. I'll have to check his numbers, but I don't think he made too many even with no protection.

14 TDs - 9 INTs 8 FUM - 5 LOST
Not too bad considering he had no protection.

My issue with this whole freaking article is that it says putting Brunell on the bench means we are admitting a mistake. Are these not the same boneheads that blasted us last year for not having a suitable back up? I don't get the double standard here. We have one good QB, it's wrong. We go out and sign another and now we have 2 solid QB's and we are wrong again? If this were in the smack forum I'd have a little more to say!
This guy went to camp one day, which happened to be a day where Ramsey was doing better. There have been days that go in each QB's favor. And this "reporter" needs to keep his opinions to himself instead of pretending the little guy inside his head is a "source".

5 days of training and ppl already saying who will start this season

I think it's too early for any decisions. Let's see some preseason action first!! Also, I believe Gibbs when he says it's an open competition. Yes, Brunnell signed a large contract but Gibbs will start whomever is best for the team.

all the washington post qb short parts kinda make it sound like ramsey is playing a little better, but it my be my biast opinion. (look at username). They could have made a decidoiosn, after reading abouyt the secrecy Gibbs wants, who knows. He could already be talking about trading Brunell for all we know. I doubt that will happen though, I would like to see brunell traded though if he doesn win the starting job. It wond happen... We need another D-line man and a backup for Brunell, perfect trade. maybe a good pass rusher?

JSPB22 wrote:I think he may have decided before training camp. They gave Brunell what they thought it would take to bring him in...I'll have to check his numbers, but I don't think he made too many even with no protection.

Even if Gibbs does think Ramsey WILL win the starting job (which I truly don't believe is the case), he hasn't decided that Ramsey HAS the starting job. Remember Stan Humphries-Mark Rypien?

Now, as to Ramsey making mistakes. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a good quarterback and a smart one. Last season his TD/Int was a very respectable 14/9, and not a whole lot worse than Brunell's last full season (17/7). But just look at the quarterback rating and completion percentage.

Brunell: 85.7, 58.9
Ramsey: 75.8, 53.1

Bottom Line: Brunell is just too consistent and too efficent.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... atsId=2485
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... atsId=5918

Brunell: 85.7, 58.9
Ramsey: 75.8, 53.1

I see exactly what you mean, and I agree to an extent. Its hard to compare the ratings becase of the different circumstances. 75.8 isn't too shabby due to the fact that he had no time to pass, especially with the poor pass protection, non-existant running game, and Rod Gardener . The numbers don't lie, but I'm just saying that Patrick would have been a lot better under normal circumstances... . Better than Brunell? Im not so sure, but AT LEAST comparable.

We still have 5 preseason games to play, and each will have to perform in game situations. I would be very surprised if the decision has been made this early. I take Gibbs at his word that it will be an open competition. Remember, Brunell sat most of last year. I'm sure it will take some time to get the rust off.

Or what if Gibbs released this rumour on purpose to throw everyone off, and TIM HASSLEBACK IS REALLY GOING TO START! OMG!!!!

I love Ramsey. He stood tough last year despite the punishment thanks to non-Coach Spurrier. But, if he starts this year and does well, the Skins will have a major problem on their hands next year. They can't cut Brunnell until 2006, because of the cap hit they would take. And there is no doubt that Ramsey would hold-out for a new contract -- and deservedly so if he's getting millions less than his back-up. For this reason, Skins fans should hope that Brunnell wins (and keeps) the job for this year. Then, if in 2005 Ramsey wins the job, they can realistically cut Brunnell in 2006 (although they really need to wait until 2007) and sign Ramsey to a new "starting QB" contract.

Otherwise, the Skins will be strapped for cap space next year and won't be able to upgrade the D-line and/or resign Smoot.

I believe Gibbs will play the guy who will give the team the best chance to win now, but from a "business-man's" view, the organization needs Brunnell to win the job.

Im rooting for Ramsey because lets face it...Hes our future...One thing im noticing though that disturbs me about Ramsey...Most reports from BOSSHOG and others are saying hes still double clutching his throws(that led to sacks last year--alot of them).....He really needs to overcome that if hes to beat out Brunell

Brunell is only 34 (old soon but not yet). At 34 I could perform physically the same (or very close to) as when I was 28. At 34 your definitely on the downward side of the peak but not that far away.

I have a hard time believing that all of a sudden Brunell can't throw accurately.

I can believe that it's way early and that touch, timing and learning new recievers may be a factor.

Also, some players are "gamers" and some are great in practice. Practice QB's are a dime a dozen. Let's discuss this again in early September.

jaw32 wrote:Brunell is only 34 (old soon but not yet). At 34 I could perform physically the same (or very close to) as when I was 28. At 34 your definitely on the downward side of the peak but not that far away.

I have a hard time believing that all of a sudden Brunell can't throw accurately.

I can believe that it's way early and that touch, timing and learning new recievers may be a factor.

Also, some players are "gamers" and some are great in practice. Practice QB's are a dime a dozen. Let's discuss this again in early September.

I don't think the issue is his accuracy, it's his arm strength.

I'll admit, things will get very interesting if Ramsey outshines Brunnell on Monday Night. It's very early, but the pressure will begin to mount.

Remember, Coach Joe loves to have a veteran QB on the roster, but it was the young Schroeder who beat out the veteran Doug Williams for the starting job in '86. And then Rypien became the starter in his 2nd year, with Williams and Jeff Rutledge hanging around.

Brunell had very good arm strength all the years I watched him in Jacksonville. Arm strength does not go away at age 34 (legs go before the arm). Ramsey has one of the strongest arms in the NFL, Brunell in my opinion was in the top 50-75% and it was never a problem. I guess I have to see him this year for myself. I hope the NFL network will televise Mondays game.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Brunell: 85.7, 58.9
Ramsey: 75.8, 53.1

I see exactly what you mean, and I agree to an extent. Its hard to compare the ratings becase of the different circumstances. 75.8 isn't too shabby due to the fact that he had no time to pass, especially with the poor pass protection, non-existant running game, and Rod Gardener . The numbers don't lie, but I'm just saying that Patrick would have been a lot better under normal circumstances... . Better than Brunell? Im not so sure, but AT LEAST comparable.

Very valid points. I think Ramsey is comparable to Brunell as it is. 75.8, considering the circumstances, was impressive. But it should be noted that in Brunell's last full season, Jacksonville went 6-10 and allowed 42 sacks (24th in the league). Now, that is still a better situation than the one Ramsey was in (The Redskins allowed 43 sacks last year, but the proportion was much higher with Ramsey). The point is, even though Brunell was in a better situation, he wasn't in a great one either...

SSIII, You also make several valid points, I just get the feeling that JG might have told Ramsey that the job was his to lose. With the way Ramsey stepped up last year, didn't complain, and still did very well, considering the circumstances, and the way his whole attitude shifted, night and day, after his initial meeting with Gibbs, I get the sense that JG brought in Brunell to be the backup and mentor to Ramsey. That being said, he has no reason to contradict the media's assumption that Brunell's contract dictates that he will be the starter. This only plays into his plan to keep opponents off-base and unable to game-plan angainst us.