The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

It is a trade that set off the great positional debate in the NFL, which goes something like this: What's more valuable, a premier running back in his prime or a cover corner who is arguably the best at his position?

Rest of Story....
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/7403302

This article confirms my cries!

Bailey has earned the label of "shutdown corner." There are those that will argue there is no such thing in the NFL, that it's impossible for a cornerback to shut down a receiver, especially if it's not done in conjunction with a good pass rush.

That was us last year.

"This is a first-class organization," said Bailey. "You can feel it. Things are so much more organized than they were in Washington last year. That's the biggest difference. This is a good move for me and my career."

Everyone kept saying, "the money, the money". No it wasn't the money, I knew that wasn't the issue. He said the biggest difference is the organization. I've been saying he left because the Skins have no direction.

So HMPH!!! I'll ride my own high horse

So is bringing Joe Gibbs back.... Hall of Fame Coach.... No Direction??? Please.... he didn't go to Denver, and ask for the same amount of money that we offered him either..... I believe he dug into there pockets a little deeper..... Do you honestly think he's gonna come out and say it was for the money???

Chris Luva Luva wrote:This article confirms my cries!

Bailey has earned the label of "shutdown corner." There are those that will argue there is no such thing in the NFL, that it's impossible for a cornerback to shut down a receiver, especially if it's not done in conjunction with a good pass rush.

Bailey scoffs as such talk.

Use the whole quote, not just the part that best suits your interests...

Bailey didnt want to remain a Skin! That was eviddent when he turned down the 9 yr 55 deal we offered him at the start of last year that he turned down! The Broncos gave him much more money up front! He will be making 9 mil a year next year and if he gave him that type of money we would not have been able to add Griffin and Washington! At only 21 years old Clinton coming off 2 1500 seasons is a beast and has a better attitude then Champ! Champ got beat several times last year and is not worth all that money! I forsee Smoot having a breakthrough year and becoming a legitmate #1 corner! I just hope we resign Smooty!

Chris Luva Luva,
Are you saying the Redskins are a disorganized franchise with no direction?

Please elaborate as, if that is the case, I must live on Jupiter and am completely insane or something????

Montana Redskin wrote:Chris Luva Luva,
Are you saying the Redskins are a disorganized franchise with no direction?

Please elaborate as, if that is the case, I must live on Jupiter and am completely insane or something????

it's not CLL saying this it's Champ... it sounds better than saying I think I'm worth more than 55 mil

1niksder wrote:.. it sounds better than saying I think I'm worth more than 55 mil

I'd like my hammer back, now... because you just hit the nail on the head.

Chris Luva Luva,
Are you saying the Redskins are a disorganized franchise with no direction?

Please elaborate as, if that is the case, I must live on Jupiter and am completely insane or something????

Thats exactly what Im saying this franchise has no distinct direction. After Norv we've been spinning our wheels. New coaches every season. New players EVERY season. NEW SCHEMES EVERY SEASON. NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW. No foundation. No head for the rest of the body. And Danny boy has been at fault to. Its too early to tell if Gibbs will correct all of this. He just started. He is a new direction that we just turned on to. And until we go in this direction for a set amount of time no one can say that we have stability even though its very likely now.

Use the whole quote, not just the part that best suits your interests...

Im not using what suits my interest. Baileys comment is HIS opinion, of course he's going to pump himself up. Anyone who knows football KNOWS THAT A PASS RUSH IS VITAL TO A PASS DEFENSE. Hence, why do you think everyone on this board is screaming for a DE. Bailey got beat because of our lack of a pass rush. Bailey got beat because of his injuries. Bailey got beat simply because he got beat. U take away 2 of those reasons and he got beat a lot less.

Do you honestly think he's gonna come out and say it was for the money???

Why wouldn't he? You say that as if he's going to get beat up if he says that. What proof do U have that what he said isn't his true feelings. Ur only proof is ur hunch and ur opinion. My opinion has been validated by him. He said it was the organization. That was evident, we have all complained about it. Its NOT always about the money. The man wants a ring, he felt he wasn't going to get it here. So why would he want to stay. I know someone will scream loyalty but lets be realistic. Yea loyalty is cool but these guess are risking their lives for our entertainment. They risk their bodies all year round so we can sit here and complain all offeseason. They want something to show for it, they want that ring to show for it. And they want the money. So I can't blame them.

If UPS wasn't doing right by me I'd leave in a heartbeat, and so would u if ur job wasn't paying you your worth.

Now I dont believe any of those suckers should be paid all of that money, I believe teachers are shafted, but this is rrality and Im just speaking on it.

I'd like my hammer back, now... because you just hit the nail on the head.

Now dont get me wrong. Im not saying the money wasnt a factor. It was. And if I said it wasnt I take it back. But its undeniable that what he said about this organization is true. We haven't had any direction for his entire tenure here. He doesn't want to waste his career, so he wanted out. I firmly believe if Gibbs would have came 2 years ago he wouldn't have left.

Smoot will be in the same situation next year. I think he will stay because of Gibbs. I think players are more likely to compromise when they have a feeling of progression with the team. We have been stagnant while Bailey was here.

I think maybe a little was a doubt with the organization.... but he really didn't give it a chance.... I mean Joe Gibbs came back.... and he was offered alot of money to stay..... I think it was a combination of both... plus the fact that he wanted to be a 2-way player... and I don't think Joe was gonna give him that option....

The fact is.... his heart wasn't here and it showed on the field last year.... I wish him luck... but I'm surely not gonna miss a guy who really wasn't a "true" Redskin... I mean Lavar's been through the same stuff Bailey has.... and he probably would get more money if he tried to sign somewhere else.... but he wants to be here... he knows the fans love him and thats worth more than money, or whatever else.... the fans loved Bailey too.... he just did care enough to stick around

but he really didn't give it a chance.... I mean Joe Gibbs came back.... and he was offered alot of money to stay.....

Joe is just a man and holds no promises. You can't say he didn't give this team a chance, he gave them 4 years if I remeber correctly.

but I'm surely not gonna miss a guy who really wasn't a "true" Redskin...

A lot of those "True" players leave the league without rings, Marino being one off of the top of my head. I guess Bailey didn't want to be one.

I mean Lavar's been through the same stuff Bailey has.... and he probably would get more money if he tried to sign somewhere else.... but he wants to be here... he knows the fans love him and thats worth more than money, or whatever else

I'd have to disagree with that. Lavar isn't on Baileys level yet. Besides CB being a skilled position and OLB not. Lavar hasn't been as consistent as Bailey. Yeah Bailey had one bad year. Lavar has been up and down. Im not dogging Lavar, he's good, but I simply disagree with you on that statement.

You might think Lavar been up and down but he's been to the Pro Bowl almost every year... so he can't be thet much below Champs level....

4 years isn't that long... especially when the guys only 25..... he could have given a Hall of Fame Coach a chance... even if he only signed a 1 year contract

But none the less... he's gone, and we as fans have to move on.... for what ever reasons he left.... the only true thing we know is he didn't want to be here....

But none the less... he's gone, and we as fans have to move on.... for what ever reasons he left.... the only true thing we know is he didn't want to be here....

You are absolutely right. I don't ignore any of the comments that you made, infact I agree with a lot of what you said to a degree. I just don't like it when people make blind statements that are said out of ignorance. Of course Im not reffering to you.

You might think Lavar been up and down but he's been to the Pro Bowl almost every year... so he can't be thet much below Champs level....

No Lavar isn't too far off. Lavar is shown that when he has good coaching and is controlled his play is exceptional. Its when we allow him to freelance too much that he becomes a hinderance to himself and the team.

4 years isn't that long... especially when the guys only 25..... he could have given a Hall of Fame Coach a chance... even if he only signed a 1 year contract

Yea I think he could have given us one more year. But in football is now or never. Next week he may dislocate his brain and never be able to play again, U gotta get it while the gettin is good.

REGARDLESS WE'RE STILL THE BEST WITHOUT HIM!!!!

Chris Luva Luva wrote:REGARDLESS WE'RE STILL THE BEST WITHOUT HIM!!!!

... I agree!

Well no offense to the Skins organization, but unless I was raised a Redskins fan; If I was in Champ Bailey's situation I'd wanna leave too. Think about. Sure hes a great corner... but think about how much harder he had to work every single year without ANY pass rush. He's only been to the playoffs ONCE in his entire career, and he has a new D. Coordinator EVERY single year in the league. Did I want Bailey to leave? Yes I did. But if I was in Baileys shoes would I do the same thing?? Yes.

enough with people apologizing for champ...don't get me wrong champ used to be my favorite player but i'm not going to make excuses for him now...i don't feel bad for guys that play for sub-par teams, if they want to win then MAKE SOME PLAYS!!!can anyone name one game champ won for the skins?? i can sure name few that he lost...i think what really bothers me is that everyone calls him a "shutdown corner"...sorry, HE'S NOT!! and don't just blame it on the D-line...the only "shutdown corner" i've really ever seen was deion and when he was falcon and his d-line sucked but he made plays EVERY GAME...the point is champ was out to get the most money he could and if he was really worth what he's getting paid now we would have kept him in washington...we could have franchised him but instead we traded him for a player that was so much better that we actually had to give our second round pick too...good riddens champ

The way I look at it is would you rather have Champ Bailey and Tatum Bell or Clinton Portis and Shawn Springs.

personally, I'd choose the latter...

CLL & BTP - I just want to say...that is the way to go at having two different points of view but still respecting the others opinion. Well done. People should take notes. Too often different points of view around here turn into pissing matches and ruin threads.

all i have to add to this tread is ....that while bailey was here i loved him.. i have his jersey....but now that hes not on my team for whatever reason...i wont root for him...and clinton portis will win more games for us than champ ever would have...

IMHO......it was about the money

There is no "I" in corner back, nor Itan "I" in running back...

It takes a team/ coaches/ and sometimes good bounces to win. What's more important... neither & both. :0)

Scooter wrote:There is no "I" in corner back, nor Itan "I" in running back...

(Don't say anything.... He's a respected member of the site )

Up until last year, there's no question that Champ has been a shut-down corner. When's the last time we've had a pass rush that's scared anybody. Also our safeties played like deer in headlights. He did not get much support.

Champ resented the contract that Lavar negotiated. He felt that he should have been the highest paid defensive player. Im my opinion he deserved to be the highest paid player when you consider years of service, level of play and work ethic. But for the factors mentioned by others Champ had his worst year at a bad time. In this league it's what have you done for me lately. I think it's no surprise that Smoot is preparing like he is, this is a contract year for him and more weight will fall on his shoulders as a result of Champ leaving. He stands to make a lot of monety at the end of this year and he will be paid solely on his performance this year.

As far as a drop-off in Champs play, he looked like the old Champ in that Pro Bowl game.

Yes we overpaid for CP. The 2nd round pick we gave up would have been a quality DL. We overpaid for Brunnel as well. The Skins still need a cold calculating GM.

In this situation, I'd take running back. While we shouldn't have given up the #2 pick in addition to Champ, Champ lost my respect last year while getting burnt on multiple occasions. Just b/c sportswriters give him the "shutdown corner" label, doesn't reduce the fact that champ was flat on his face multiple times last year (Giants game, TB game for starters) while the opposing WR was running in for a touchdown. He looked like dung and was becomming a distraction for our team. While I wish him the best b/c I used to think he was the man, I also say it's time to move on, let Portis show us the way.

So, in this case, I'm going with Portis. This all remains to be seen anyways. Smoot should of gone to the pro bowl last year...

Redskins1974,

I agree, if all is fair Smoot should have gone to Pro Bowl last year, but I think its based more on the prior season and thats why he'll go this year.