The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

It has become apparent that at least 1 long-time fan of the NFL who frequents this message board is not aware of the fact that NFL rule 7a mandates contact by a defender as opposed to the NCAA rule which says that once a ball carrier falls down, the ball is dead whether or not he has been touched by a defender.

Since it would be terrible for a fellow board member to walk around thinking the NFL rule is the same as the NCAA rule, I have decided to post the corresponding rules and point out the differences - differences every fan should know.

Here is NFL rule 7a:

RULE 7 Ball in Play, Dead Ball, Scrimmage
Section 1 Ball in Play
Article 1: Live Ball. After the ball has been declared ready for play, it becomes a live ball when it is legally
snapped or legally kicked (a free kick or fair catch kick). The ball remains dead if it is snapped or kicked
before it is made ready for play.
Section 2 Dead Ball
Article 1: Dead Ball Declared. An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:
(a) when a runner is contacted by a defensive player and touches the ground with any part of his body
other than his hands or feet. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground. A runner
touching the ground with his hands or feet while in the grasp of an opponent may continue to
advance; or

Note the highlighted requirement of contact by a defensive player in rule 7a.

There are exceptions to the "when a runner is contacted by a defensive player" requirement. They appear in rules 7c and 7d, not in 7a:

(c) when a quarterback immediately drops to his knee (or simulates dropping to his knee) behind the line
of scrimmage; or
(d) when a runner declares himself down by sliding feet first on the ground.

An NFL player can also kneel in the endzone and the ball is dead without contact by a defensive player.

Things are different in the NCAA. Here is the corresponding rule 4.3b

Ball Declared Dead
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead:
a. When it goes out of bounds other than a kick that scores a field goal after
touching the uprights or crossbar; when a ball carrier is out of bounds;
or when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped.
When in question, the ball is dead (A.R. 4-2-1-II).
b. When any part of the ball carrier’s body, except his hand or foot, touches
the ground or when the ball carrier is tackled or otherwise falls and loses
possession of the ball as he contacts the ground with any part of his
body, except his hand or foot

Note the lack of a mandate for contact by a defender.

Thus, in the NFL, by rule 7a, contact by a defensive player is required for a ball to be declared dead while this is not so in the NCAA by rule 4.3b.

Note that 4.3b has an exception too:

[Exception: The ball remains alive when
an offensive player has simulated a kick or at the snap is in position to
kick the ball held for a place kick by a teammate. The ball may be kicked,
passed or advanced by rule]

In other words, in the NCAA (and in the NFL for that matter), the holder on a placekick does not create a dead ball by receiving a snap while on one knee.

Now Now Monk this thread is designed just to bait 1 troll. I know that your intention is to teach the rule. But, some "Special" folks can't be taught.

Just trying to educate the ignorant.

Educate the ignorant?? hmmm, I remember a certain someone (see above) that said rule 7(a) wasn't an "NFL Rule" then posts about the very "rule" in this thread. After he was repeatedly told by the one he is attempting to "Educate" that in fact, it was an actual "Rule"

Here is the exchange between us you seem to cite. It clearly shows you do not grasp the difference between NCAA and NFL:

TexasCowboy wrote:Because under the rule 7a is states the runner which is what a receiver is during the entire process from start to finish is classified as down the second a body part other than a hand or foot strikes
the turf

WRONG.

That is the college rule. You are leaving out the part that makes the pros different - CONTACT WITH A DEFENDER.

NFL rule you cited:

RULE 7 Ball in Play, Dead Ball, Scrimmage
Section 1 Ball in Play
Article 1: Live Ball. After the ball has been declared ready for play, it becomes a live ball when it is legally
snapped or legally kicked (a free kick or fair catch kick). The ball remains dead if it is snapped or kicked
before it is made ready for play.
Section 2 Dead Ball
Article 1: Dead Ball Declared. An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:
(a) when a runner is contacted by a defensive player and touches the ground with any part of his body
other than his hands or feet.

NCAA rule you are using for your argument:

ARTICLE 3. Ball Declared Dead

A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle or declare it dead:

When any part of the ball carrier’s body, except his hand or foot, touches the ground

See the difference?

Every week NFL runners fall down, get back up, and keep running. They can't do that IN COLLEGE.

Let me give you free advise, In order to educate, you must first possess the knowledge in order to do it, when you deny something as truth, then suddenly have an Epiphany fails to educate

Oh and one more bit of free advice

the second the NFL admitted to rigging games, you lost all credibility in your argument for them which makes me right on everything I have said regarding the matter

the end

DarthMonk wrote:Here is the exchange between us you seem to cite. It clearly shows you do not grasp the difference between NCAA and NFL:

TexasCowboy wrote:Because under the rule 7a is states the runner which is what a receiver is during the entire process from start to finish is classified as down the second a body part other than a hand or foot strikes
the turf

WRONG.

That is the college rule. You are leaving out the part that makes the pros different - CONTACT WITH A DEFENDER.

NFL rule you cited:

RULE 7 Ball in Play, Dead Ball, Scrimmage
Section 1 Ball in Play
Article 1: Live Ball. After the ball has been declared ready for play, it becomes a live ball when it is legally
snapped or legally kicked (a free kick or fair catch kick). The ball remains dead if it is snapped or kicked
before it is made ready for play.
Section 2 Dead Ball
Article 1: Dead Ball Declared. An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:
(a) when a runner is contacted by a defensive player and touches the ground with any part of his body
other than his hands or feet.

NCAA rule you are using for your argument:

ARTICLE 3. Ball Declared Dead

A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle or declare it dead:

When any part of the ball carrier’s body, except his hand or foot, touches the ground

See the difference?

Every week NFL runners fall down, get back up, and keep running. They can't do that IN COLLEGE.

Now Monk I commend you on your effort to educate a special person. But, when the special person don't wanna read the actual rule, and understand why it matters. You are just wasting your time.

Ah, changing the narrative to make it look like someone else is wrong, when in fact they are the one wrong all along priceless, In meantime the NFL sunk everything you had, the moment they flapped their gums admitting to rigging of games which means the NFL is extremely corrupt and does not represent all the things they claim

It has become apparent that at least 1 long-time fan of the NFL who frequents this message board is not aware of the fact that NFL rule 7a mandates contact by a defender as opposed to the NCAA rule which says that once a ball carrier falls down, the ball is dead whether or not he has been touched by a defender.

Since it would be terrible for a fellow board member to walk around thinking the NFL rule is the same as the NCAA rule, I have decided to post the corresponding rules and point out the differences - differences every fan should know.

Here is NFL rule 7a:

RULE 7 Ball in Play, Dead Ball, Scrimmage
Section 1 Ball in Play
Article 1: Live Ball. After the ball has been declared ready for play, it becomes a live ball when it is legally
snapped or legally kicked (a free kick or fair catch kick). The ball remains dead if it is snapped or kicked
before it is made ready for play.
Section 2 Dead Ball
Article 1: Dead Ball Declared. An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:
(a) when a runner is contacted by a defensive player and touches the ground with any part of his body
other than his hands or feet. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground. A runner
touching the ground with his hands or feet while in the grasp of an opponent may continue to
advance; or

Note the highlighted requirement of contact by a defensive player in rule 7a.

There are exceptions to the "when a runner is contacted by a defensive player" requirement. They appear in rules 7c and 7d, not in 7a:

(c) when a quarterback immediately drops to his knee (or simulates dropping to his knee) behind the line
of scrimmage; or
(d) when a runner declares himself down by sliding feet first on the ground.

An NFL player can also kneel in the endzone and the ball is dead without contact by a defensive player.

Things are different in the NCAA. Here is the corresponding rule 4.3b

Ball Declared Dead
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead:
a. When it goes out of bounds other than a kick that scores a field goal after
touching the uprights or crossbar; when a ball carrier is out of bounds;
or when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped.
When in question, the ball is dead (A.R. 4-2-1-II).
b. When any part of the ball carrier’s body, except his hand or foot, touches
the ground or when the ball carrier is tackled or otherwise falls and loses
possession of the ball as he contacts the ground with any part of his
body, except his hand or foot

Note the lack of a mandate for contact by a defender.

Thus, in the NFL, by rule 7a, contact by a defensive player is required for a ball to be declared dead while this is not so in the NCAA by rule 4.3b.

Note that 4.3b has an exception too:

[Exception: The ball remains alive when
an offensive player has simulated a kick or at the snap is in position to
kick the ball held for a place kick by a teammate. The ball may be kicked,
passed or advanced by rule]

In other words, in the NCAA (and in the NFL for that matter), the holder on a placekick does not create a dead ball by receiving a snap while on one knee.

Keywords - declares himself down by falling to the ground, contacted by a defensive player, touches the ground with any part of his body
other than his hands or feet, touching the ground with his hands or feet while in the grasp of an opponent may continue to advance

so here is what I want to know, given that these keywords tell the story of when a player is allowed to advance vs attempting to advance
knowing that this may only be done via his hands, feet touch the turf before anything else, Or while in the grasp

Explain how this



and this



Are not catches?

TexasCowboy wrote:Keywords - declares himself down by falling to the ground, contacted by a defensive player, touches the ground with any part of his body
other than his hands or feet, touching the ground with his hands or feet while in the grasp of an opponent may continue to advance

so here is what I want to know, given that these keywords tell the story of when a player is allowed to advance vs attempting to advance
knowing that this may only be done via his hands, feet touch the turf before anything else, Or while in the grasp

Explain how this



and this



Are not catches?

I have explained the first one repeatedly. No point trying to convince you.

The second is easy.

First of all, James did not slide and declare himself down.

Second, He also has not been touched yet in your still shot. Yet you are on record as saying he did not score because he was down by contact. This is clearly wrong. He is not down by rule 7a which clearly mandates contact by a defender whether you understand the difference between amateur and pro or not.

Third, since James was going to the ground during the entire process of the catch - NOT AFTER catching and THEN running - he must, by the rules, maintain control of the ball upon impact. Replay clearly shows him losing control upon impact. The ball spins in his hands and the ball comes to rest on the ground with his righT hand on the side of it and his left hand upside down on top of it. As the ref said - he did not survive the ground as he must according to the rules. The key fact requiring him to survive the ground is the fact that he was going to the ground the moment the ball touched him. He never became a runner who later fell. He was falling to the ground from the get-go.

Note my still shot with the ball on the ground and the hand placement I described. He lost control. Note he still has not been touched by a defender yet. Not down at the one (a ludicrous claim) and incomplete as explained above.

You have failed to explain anything Your case holds no water so let me explain it this way

“If it doesn’t make sense, it’s not true” - Judge Judy

the narratives keep changing the story can't stay consistent with the rules in place, Possession is established without question, 2 steps constitutes a "football move"
according to the "rule", 7 (A+E) You have contact, along with a body part other than a hand or foot reaching the ground prior, which means that in the case of both
Dez and James, Neither would have been capable of advancing the ball however the yards gained ends at the very spot of where the dead ball took place, Still, hold's
up

plus you have the NFL admitting to rigging games which drowns anything else you've got to say further on this

case closed

You can't "take 2 steps and make a football move" WHEN FALLING.

He was falling from the get go.

So was Dez.

http://www.thefixisin.net/

https://www.infowars.com/nfl-facing-acc ... kers-game/

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_yl ... mp=yhs-002

NO more legs to stand on time to end it

Game over man, GAME OVER

TexasCowboy wrote:Game over man, GAME OVER

Yep, you lost.

Monk, you've spun this out of control every which way and unless you are capable of proving the NFL isn't corrupt with power (you can't) then there is NO way you are going to be able to explain how Dez and James did not catch the ball in both cases? time to end it dude, You've lost give it up 3 times all the same consistent story move along dude

TexasCowboy wrote:Game over man, GAME OVER

Yep, you lost.

Move a long dude nothing for you to see here

Simple fact is you think if an NFL runner falls down on his own that he's down by contact and you cite rule 7a which clearly states that is not the case.

Simple fact is you think the NFL and NCAA rules ares the same and every other person on this board knows that is flat out wrong.

Rule 7a mandates contact by a defender before anything else.

An NFL runner can crawl into the end zone and score. An NCAA runner cannot.

You lose.

Feel free to move on since you are the one saying it is time to do so.

Yep, Uh huh in the meantime the NFL sinks their own Titanic admitting to game fixing

TexasCowboy wrote:Yep, Uh huh in the meantime the NFL sinks their own Titanic admitting to game fixing

While you continue to ignore the basic rules of the game - to wit:

Simple fact is you think if an NFL runner falls down on his own that he's down by contact and you cite rule 7a which clearly states that is not the case.

Simple fact is you think the NFL and NCAA rules ares the same and every other person on this board knows that is flat out wrong.

Rule 7a mandates contact by a defender before anything else.

An NFL runner can crawl into the end zone and score. An NCAA runner cannot.

Titanic still at the bottom of the ocean film at 11

The play was ruled IN-COM-PLETE. Time to get over it, and move on.

Here is the logic behind this post ^^^^

* who cares if the league is corrupt, fixes games Nothing that can be done about it

Last I checked sports is about fairness not rigged outcomes like elections where they already
know who wins? (see WWE)

still a catch not buying their bogus statement especially when their own admitting to game fixing
sinks the entire thing from underneath you

The play was ruled IN-COM-PLETE. Time to get over it, and move on.