The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Jay Gruden comes in at #20 - seems fair .... right between the Bucs HC Dirk Koetter and Jim Caldwell of the Lions

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranki ... s-of-2017/

He has done a nice job turning the Redskins around, going from 4-12 in his first season in 2014 to 9-7 the next and 8-7-1 in 2016. He made the playoffs in 2015, but missed out last season with a Week 17 home loss to the Giants that hurts him some on this list. His winning percentage is .448, which isn't pretty, but the first year drives it down. He is a smart offensive coach who needs to figure out how to get his team to play better defense. A change in coordinators this season might help.

"we'll be better next season ..."

Interesting stuff in there. Lots I take exception to though. Mike McCarthy at #2? Come on. Aaron Rodgers carries that team year after year. Its not the brilliant coaching mind of Mike McCarthy. Pagano? Blech. Guy coaches in the worst division in football with one of the best QBs in the league, two 8-8 seasons. I'm not especially big on Sean Payton anymore either.

I always rate the highest guys who don't have the top talent but still find ways to get it done, and coaches who have shown they can win with multiple teams.

riggofan wrote:Interesting stuff in there. Lots I take exception to though. Mike McCarthy at #2? Come on. Aaron Rodgers carries that team year after year. Its not the brilliant coaching mind of Mike McCarthy. Pagano? Blech. Guy coaches in the worst division in football with one of the best QBs in the league, two 8-8 seasons. I'm not especially big on Sean Payton anymore either.

I always rate the highest guys who don't have the top talent but still find ways to get it done, and coaches who have shown they can win with multiple teams.

the one thing from this "list" that I agree with is that BB is the best - after that there's a lot of good coaches and some that are close to being good - I do think that Jay Gruden is a bit better than this "ranking" but it's likely more to do with this franchise than Jay as HC

SkinsJock wrote:the one thing from this "list" that I agree with is that BB is the best - after that there's a lot of good coaches and some that are close to being good - I do think that Jay Gruden is a bit better than this "ranking" but it's likely more to do with this franchise than Jay as HC

Belichick might be the most over-rated coach in league history. Tom Brady has carried his ass like Elway carried Shanahan's ass. He was nothing before Brady and he'll be nothing after Brady.

Mike Tomlin is a far better coach than Belichick.

SkinsJock wrote:the one thing from this "list" that I agree with is that BB is the best - after that there's a lot of good coaches and some that are close to being good - I do think that Jay Gruden is a bit better than this "ranking" but it's likely more to do with this franchise than Jay as HC

I didn't have a big issue with where he was ranked. Middle of the pack seems about right to me, though I think he's better than Jason Garrett.

I still think Gruden has to prove he can be a complete coach. Right now he seems like a really good offensive coordinator. I don't expect him to personally coach all aspects of the defense and not expecting overnight miracles, but he has to show he can put together a complete team and get things fixed somehow on that side of the ball as well.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:the one thing from this "list" that I agree with is that BB is the best - after that there's a lot of good coaches and some that are close to being good - I do think that Jay Gruden is a bit better than this "ranking" but it's likely more to do with this franchise than Jay as HC

Belichick might be the most over-rated coach in league history. Tom Brady has carried his ass like Elway carried Shanahan's ass. He was nothing before Brady and he'll be nothing after Brady.

Mike Tomlin is a far better coach than Belichick.

Are you serious about not giving credit to BB and then compare him to MS? Let me guess if BB became available after JG had some kind of serious health problem and could no longer coach, you would still say BB is overrated and we shouldn't pursue him because TB made him into the best HC in modern pro football...?! Get real and grow up. BB is the best HC available in modern football

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:the one thing from this "list" that I agree with is that BB is the best - after that there's a lot of good coaches and some that are close to being good - I do think that Jay Gruden is a bit better than this "ranking" but it's likely more to do with this franchise than Jay as HC

Belichick might be the most over-rated coach in league history. Tom Brady has carried his ass like Elway carried Shanahan's ass. He was nothing before Brady and he'll be nothing after Brady.

Mike Tomlin is a far better coach than Belichick.

^^ Blind man posting.
Who pulled Tom Brady out of his ass?
Who always manages to manipulate his roster like an ace, letting go of blue chip players just before they decline, always managing to find just the right receiver for the slot. If he has any weakness, its that he has difficulty getting the same kind of depth on defense. The dude is a roster management maestro, as well as a cold blooded interview...

Countertrey wrote:^^ Blind man posting.
Who pulled Tom Brady out of his ass?
Who always manages to manipulate his roster like an ace, letting go of blue chip players just before they decline, always managing to find just the right receiver for the slot. If he has any weakness, its that he has difficulty getting the same kind of depth on defense. The dude is a roster management maestro, as well as a cold blooded interview...

No one drafts a 6th round quarterback knowing they're going to become a decade plus starter, let alone a multiple Super Bowl winner. Billy doesn't get credit for that. He coached the Cleveland Browns for five seasons, went 36-44, made the playoffs once in 1994, beat the Patriots in the Wild Card, lost to the Steelers. Mark Rypien was his backup QB that year. Belichick also went 5-11 his first year with the Patriots. What changed his 2nd year? That's right. The QB. Tom Brady. Drew Bledsoe sucked. They could have replaced him with anyone and gotten better results.

Are you honestly going to argue that Belichick could have done what he's done with any quarterback? I doubt he'd have had the same level of success with Peyton Manning, to say nothing of average quarterbacks.

I think the only coach in NFL history who could argue he can make any QB a winner is Joe Gibbs. QED

No, Belichick is a product of his quarterback, not the reverse. He sucked before Brady, and if he continues coaching, he will suck after Brady.

He coached the Cleveland Browns for five seasons, went 36-44, made the playoffs once in 1994

Any coach that can do that has to be number 1

I get the argument that Brady deserves a lot of the credit for the SB wins, but there are plenty of other coaches with elite QBs like Manning and Brees who haven't won five Super Bowls. I'm not even going to pretend Belichik isn't the GOAT.

riggofan wrote:I get the argument that Brady deserves a lot of the credit for the SB wins, but there are plenty of other coaches with elite QBs like Manning and Brees who haven't won five Super Bowls. I'm not even going to pretend Belichik isn't the GOAT.

That's a pretty good point. Plenty of coaches had their hands on elite talent and accomplished nothing. BB has been able to utilize his fortune in a big way, and for a very long time.