The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I'll be done with Skins if they let Cousins slip away. I stopped getting tickets a few years ago because Iot so frustrated with the gross mismanagement under Snyder. hopefully Daniel Snyder won't make this mistake.

I find it hard to understand fans that can switch their allegiance on or off based on not liking how the franchise is being managed or owned

just leave already

I left MD in 1983 and I'm just as into this franchise now as I was then

You gotta agree that Danny ain't the best owner.

HTTR

SkinsJock wrote:I find it hard to understand fans that can switch their allegiance on or off based on not liking how the franchise is being managed or owned

Really? I find it harder to understand how fans like you and me continue to support this franchise after decades of being let down by this sorry ass owner.

I'll be bummed if they screw up this Cousins situation. But won't be surprised and certainly wouldn't be "done".

I love hyperbole. Really. I do.

If everyone who said, "I'm done with this team if ..." was actually done with this team if there would be about six of us left.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I find it hard to understand fans that can switch their allegiance on or off based on not liking how the franchise is being managed or owned

Really? I find it harder to understand how fans like you and me continue to support this franchise after decades of being let down by this sorry ass owner.
I'll be bummed if they screw up this Cousins situation. But won't be surprised and certainly wouldn't be "done".

there's no doubt that it's been difficult but it hasn't been a choice

hopefully this FO gets Cousins signed to a long term deal but it will not change my feelings for this team

how can you do that?

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I love hyperbole. Really. I do.

If everyone who said, "I'm done with this team if ..." was actually done with this team if there would be about six of us left.

hah. This exactly.

SkinsJock wrote:how can you do that?

You can't. Snyder should be paying Joe Gibbs royalties or something, because those 80s teams have been fueling this fan base for three decades.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I love hyperbole. Really. I do.

If everyone who said, "I'm done with this team if ..." was actually done with this team if there would be about six of us left.

Gotta agree with this. This franchise has done things again and again that I have left shaking my head. Danny boy is literally one of the worst human beings on this planet and a curse to the city of Washington, but even that won't allow me to stop rooting for this franchise --- and if that doesn't, nothing will.

Now, that being said, I don't give $1 to the franchise. I don't buy ANY officially licensed merch (I buy from China and risk the identify theft, not actually receiving the product, etc. BECAUSE they are not licensed --- honestly), never go to games, don't even go on the redskins websites (although I have posted on extreme skins a full 11 times in my life). All in all, money talks and I don't "support" the team in the financial aspect outside of getting sunday NFL ticket, which is the only way I can watch the games (I assume the skins get a piece of those proceeds/NFL-DTV/ATT contract).

But the redskins are like a super stupid little brother/sister that always gets in trouble and makes really stupid decisions --- no matter how dumb, you still love them because it's unconditional and there's nothing you can really do about it. You can tell them that you are "done with them" and do your best to distance yourself after another "rock bottom", but deep in that heart, you love them just the same.

markshark84 wrote:But the redskins are like a super stupid little brother/sister that always gets in trouble and makes really stupid decisions --- no matter how dumb, you still love them because it's unconditional and there's nothing you can really do about it. You can tell them that you are "done with them" and do your best to distance yourself after another "rock bottom", but deep in that heart, you love them just the same.

I think the Redskins are more like the abusive ex-girlfriend. She only sporadically makes you happy and makes you look bad in front of your friends. Friends and family shake their head and wonder why you continue to punish yourself. You hang onto the relationship because "maybe it'll work itself out."

Hooligan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:But the redskins are like a super stupid little brother/sister that always gets in trouble and makes really stupid decisions --- no matter how dumb, you still love them because it's unconditional and there's nothing you can really do about it. You can tell them that you are "done with them" and do your best to distance yourself after another "rock bottom", but deep in that heart, you love them just the same.

I think the Redskins are more like the abusive ex-girlfriend. She only sporadically makes you happy and makes you look bad in front of your friends. Friends and family shake their head and wonder why you continue to punish yourself. You hang onto the relationship because "maybe it'll work itself out."

I hang onto this relationship because we have three beautiful Tiffany designed sterling silver kids together. I do it for the children! I want another one!

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:how can you do that?

You can't. Snyder should be paying Joe Gibbs royalties or something, because those 80s teams have been fueling this fan base for three decades.

Interesting... how do you explain me? Much of the 50's... all of the 60's... The flash and loss of Lombardi... the flash of Allen. followed by the realization that he mortgaged, and lost the next decade... THEN the 80's... here before... here during... here after... here now. I survived the dark ages of GP Marshall (not a damned hint of actual success after 1945) E.B. Williams was a pretty crappy owner, too... Jack Kent Cook wasn't much... until he lucked out, and hired the right GM... and let him actually run the team. That was the decision that made a very special decade.

Pardon me, if I seem to wax effusively... I lived through some horrific football decisions for over 3 decades, before something magic happened. I understand the frustration felt by those whom have never known a powerhouse team. But, I also know that it will happen again. It has to. Even a bonehead owner (Gibbs did not have a good start... Cook was about out of patience) can become beloved as the result of a single fortunate signing. I'm still hoping that McCloughn may be the Danny's Beathard.

With me it's age in addition to fan fatigue. I'm 65 so I don't have any real hope of outliving Dan Snyder's ownership and if Snyder let's Cousins slip away it will not only be the dumbest decision in his epic list of stupid blunders it will be the one that finally kills any hope I have left. I will not waste a moment of my remaining decade or so vainly hoping things improve. If Snyder muffs this I am going conclude that Dan Snyder has some subconscious desire to screw up. It might not make sense to you but it will the end for me. I won't go away angry l will just go away.

It's simple - if Dan Snyder is 'involved' with this franchise, it does not matter if he decides to keep Cousins - this franchise is screwed

and

I will still be hoping that we can find a way to win again - just like last season - to no avail - this franchise is on the right track under Scot McCloughan's guidance and with or without Kirk Cousins, they will get better, as long as Dan Snyder continues to not interfere

no matter what - I'll still be here

HTTR

Countertrey wrote:

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:how can you do that?

You can't. Snyder should be paying Joe Gibbs royalties or something, because those 80s teams have been fueling this fan base for three decades.

Interesting... how do you explain me? Much of the 50's... all of the 60's... The flash and loss of Lombardi... the flash of Allen. followed by the realization that he mortgaged, and lost the next decade... THEN the 80's... here before... here during... here after... here now. I survived the dark ages of GP Marshall (not a damned hint of actual success after 1945) E.B. Williams was a pretty crappy owner, too... Jack Kent Cook wasn't much... until he lucked out, and hired the right GM... and let him actually run the team. That was the decision that made a very special decade.

Pardon me, if I seem to wax effusively... I lived through some horrific football decisions for over 3 decades, before something magic happened. I understand the frustration felt by those whom have never known a powerhouse team. But, I also know that it will happen again. It has to. Even a bonehead owner (Gibbs did not have a good start... Cook was about out of patience) can become beloved as the result of a single fortunate signing. I'm still hoping that McCloughn may be the Danny's Beathard.

Me, too. I grew up watching Marshall's play out...had friends who became Colts fans and an uncle who bought a "rotating" antenna so he could watch Colt games. I stuck it out with The Goog and then Otto Graham's teams ("Who cares about the run or about defense?").

No mater how much I dislike Snyder, it's special when they play "Hail to the Redskins".

Just remember...a slippery field, Doug Williams backs up to pass, slips, sprains his knee. Broncos lead 10 - 0 and the announcers are ridiculing the Redskins. Here is Williams a few days later, on crutches no less. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6g8E2Mmn8w

Countertrey wrote:

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:how can you do that?

You can't. Snyder should be paying Joe Gibbs royalties or something, because those 80s teams have been fueling this fan base for three decades.

Interesting... how do you explain me? Much of the 50's... all of the 60's... The flash and loss of Lombardi... the flash of Allen. followed by the realization that he mortgaged, and lost the next decade... THEN the 80's... here before... here during... here after... here now. I survived the dark ages of GP Marshall (not a damned hint of actual success after 1945) E.B. Williams was a pretty crappy owner, too... Jack Kent Cook wasn't much... until he lucked out, and hired the right GM... and let him actually run the team. That was the decision that made a very special decade.

Pardon me, if I seem to wax effusively... I lived through some horrific football decisions for over 3 decades, before something magic happened. I understand the frustration felt by those whom have never known a powerhouse team. But, I also know that it will happen again. It has to. Even a bonehead owner (Gibbs did not have a good start... Cook was about out of patience) can become beloved as the result of a single fortunate signing. I'm still hoping that McCloughn may be the Danny's Beathard.

Me, too. I grew up watching Marshall's team play...had friends who became Colts fans and an uncle who bought a "rotating" antenna so he could watch Colt games. I stuck it out with The Goog and then Otto Graham's teams ("Who cares about the run or about defense?").

No matter how much I dislike Snyder, it's special when they play "Hail to the Redskins".

Just remember...a slippery field, Doug Williams backs up to pass, slips, sprains his knee. Broncos lead 10 - 0 and the announcers are ridiculing the Redskins. Here is Williams a few days later, on crutches no less. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6g8E2Mmn8w

Countertrey wrote:

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:how can you do that?

You can't. Snyder should be paying Joe Gibbs royalties or something, because those 80s teams have been fueling this fan base for three decades.

Interesting... how do you explain me? Much of the 50's... all of the 60's... The flash and loss of Lombardi... the flash of Allen. followed by the realization that he mortgaged, and lost the next decade... THEN the 80's... here before... here during... here after... here now. I survived the dark ages of GP Marshall (not a damned hint of actual success after 1945) E.B. Williams was a pretty crappy owner, too... Jack Kent Cook wasn't much... until he lucked out, and hired the right GM... and let him actually run the team. That was the decision that made a very special decade.

Hah. I don't explain you at all! Some of you guys are lucky enough to have enjoyed the team in the 80s and further back like you described. Lucky!

You're totally right that Beathard deserves as much credit as Gibbs. Really just pointing out how much Snyder has been living off of past glory and hasn't provided much of anything as an owner himself yet. We can always hope!

I loved going into DC to the Childe Harold or to RFK to watch games in the early 70s - there's no way you can undo the feelings of the 70's, 80's and 90's - not even Snyder can affect that

Kirk Cousins is our QB - he'll be just another ex Redskin when he leaves and we'll be hoping the next guy can be as good or better

I don't expect anything from Dan Snyder - I just hope he continues to not interfere with these guys as he has for the past 2 seasons

For those of us who are worried that Cousins might end up being "paid too much". I thought this WashPost article was a painful reminder of the alternatives. Get your barf bag ready:

If the Redskins part with Kirk Cousins, here are three options at quarterback
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/foo ... 180e67b9ca
1. Start Colt McCoy.
2. The Redskins could start Nate Sudfeld or a rookie quarterback who makes a favorable impression during training camp.
3. Go get Tony Romo.

Details of each in the article. If you can stomach it.

riggofan wrote:For those of us who are worried that Cousins might end up being "paid too much". I thought this WashPost article was a painful reminder of the alternatives. Get your barf bag ready:

If the Redskins part with Kirk Cousins, here are three options at quarterback
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/foo ... 180e67b9ca
1. Start Colt McCoy.
2. The Redskins could start Nate Sudfeld or a rookie quarterback who makes a favorable impression during training camp.
3. Go get Tony Romo.

Details of each in the article. If you can stomach it.

Cousins is the only viable option. That's not the question. The question is how the team handles the situation. Franchise tagging the guy again doesn't exactly say "Redskin For Life" from their direction or his. If that is what happens then we can safely conclude either he doesn't want to be here long-term or the team still has no business acumen. What's worse? Overpaying a useless defensive lineman or allowing the first potential franchise QB your team has had in 25 years get away because you couldn't negotiate a long-term deal?

The team has to get this done. Cousins has no incentive to sign a long-term deal if he can milk the Skins for the franchise tag again this season and the transition tag next season. They have to give him one.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:Franchise tagging the guy again doesn't exactly say "Redskin For Life" from their direction or his.

Nope. It pretty much says "Redskin for exactly one more year".

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:Overpaying a useless defensive lineman or allowing the first potential franchise QB your team has had in 25 years get away because you couldn't negotiate a long-term deal?

I completely agree, man. In two years, whatever LTD Cousins worked out in 2017 will look cheap.

To your point about overpaying a DL, I was thinking about the Josh Norman deal this morning. Didn't we make that guy like the highest paid player at his position last year? Don't get me wrong, Norman is a great player, happy to have him here and all that. But there's no comparing his impact on the team to the QB.

I don't understand the willingness to do whatever it takes to get Josh Norman, but the hemming and hawing over the most important position on the team.

This is a big if but if we can get a couple high draft picks for Kirk build the defense and draft a running back?
I would be happy with a strong running game and strong defense with a Vet free agent Qb.

If Kirk was was Peyton Manning in his prime he'd be signed already.
You have to consider this.
The Skins have never had a 100 million dollar contract given to any player. I think Haynes worth was the highest contract our team has ever given out.

HEROHAMO wrote:This is a big if but if we can get a couple high draft picks for Kirk build the defense and draft a running back?
I would be happy with a strong running game and strong defense with a Vet free agent Qb.

I understand your logic and don't think its crazy. But drafting a RB, signing Bryan Hoyer and some defensive guys doesn't guarantee that we're going to have a strong running game and a strong defense overnight.

I think the most likely outcome would be that the team ends up going like 4-12 or 5-11 next season. The fan base goes nuts. Snyder reacts. Everyone gets fired. Everything gets scrapped. Again. We end up starting from scratch. Again.

I'm tired of watching that crap play out over and over personally.

HEROHAMO wrote:This is a big if but if we can get a couple high draft picks for Kirk build the defense and draft a running back?
I would be happy with a strong running game and strong defense with a Vet free agent Qb.

If Kirk was was Peyton Manning in his prime he'd be signed already.
You have to consider this.
The Skins have never had a 100 million dollar contract given to any player. I think Haynes worth was the highest contract our team has ever given out.

Paying Cousins doesn't get in the way of building a DEF if you draft right --- which is necessary to sustain success irregardless. You can get HIGH quality DEF players FAR more often in rds. 3-6 vs. getting a HIGH quality QB in those rounds. Of the 19 "franchise" or even "solid starter" QBs (absent Cousins) 16 were drafted in Rds. 1 or 2:
- Palmer, Ryan, Flacco, Newton, Dalton, Dak, Stafford, Rodgers, Carr, Luck, Smith, Brady, Brees, Manning, Roeth, Rivers, Wilson, Winston, Mariota, Tannehill. Brady, Wilson, and Dak are the only ones that weren't.

If this franchise is TRULY committed to the model best known for sustaining long-term success --- i.e., building thru the draft and not overpaying for FAs in order to supplement giving up picks or missing in the draft --- they would SIGN their record-breaking, known commodity QB and then focus on BPA DEF players in the draft --- not FA like we have historically done (and have resulting in being an NFL joke ever since).

And if Cousins was Peyton ---- we have NO clue whether he would have been signed. Peyton has been FRANCHISED TWICE as well. Different circumstances (they all are), but no QB is just given a blank check and asked to put how much they want. The fact we have never had a 100M contract only shows how bad our QB situation has been for SO LONG. It's like this franchise finally has something to build around and they are so naïve and inexperienced they don't know how to handle the situation......

To your happy with strong RB/DEF & Vet QB --- that 100% will not work and we aren't close to be in that position. You are in a dreamland if you think that recipe will do anything other than get us a top 5 pick in the 2018 NFL draft ---- and not one that we got from giving away Cousins. First off, we need upgrades within our DEF that will take multiple years to fix. And in the current NFL, a solid run game is predicated on having a dangerous passing attack. If you don't have a passing game, we will see DEF like we did back when Campbell was QB and it was impossible for Portis (one of the best RBs in the game) to get anywhere. This isn't 1982, you need a passing attack to have any success in the NFL. Running games are only used to CLOSE OUT games, not to win them. And what "Vet QB" do you want? Fitz, Keenum, Hoyer, Geno Smith, Barkley, Ponder, Foles..... Get real. Hey Vince Young is trying to make a comeback ---- let's build around him....

I, OTOH, would be "happy" with winning games. Winning games requires having a good QB. No FA QB is what I would consider good. Cousins is a good QB. We have 9 draft picks. Sign Cousins to a deal that isn't a huge cap hit (which can be done as I have posted previously --- even one that gives him 150M can be cap friendly), draft well, keep Danny boy and his yes-boy Allen quiet and out of football operations, make good FA acquisitions that don't break the bank ---- and we are in the playoff and a solid contender. A strong run game/DEF and Vet QB based on our current roster essentially makes us a poor-man's MIN Vikings. Not interested.

while I do want the Redskins to find a way to keep Cousins here, there are a few 'benefits' to having him not be here