The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

something has to be done - a complete lack of effort at home, in both games, has to mean that people will lose jobs

this franchise deserves a lot better - hopefully the idiot owner keeps Scot and let's him bring in his people

I agree that something needs to change. I'm tired of seeing a team choke when it matters most. Kirk is the best QB we've had in forever, but he still has yet to show up when it matters most.

Nobody is perfect. Kirk isn't perfect. It's just the timing of his "off" games that worries me. I wouldn't franchise him moving forward and he'd have to come down off of his price. If he refuses, let him walk.

Danny was not a fan of Gruden or of Kirk. He wanted to Fire Gruden earlier but Scot stopped him. Theres a reason Captain Pick didn't get a nice fat contract and it is because Danny knows KC is not a real franchise QB.

So to your point, when an owner doesn't like the HC and doesn't believe in the QB, anything can happen.

hitmandm wrote:Theres a reason Captain Pick didn't get a nice fat contract and it is because Danny knows KC is not a real franchise QB.

Seriously?

Kirk has set and broken franchise records in back-to-back years.

That kinda spells "franchise" QB imo.

The Skins need to pay the man, and keep building this roster, focusing on the defensive side of the ball first.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Kirk is the best QB we've had in forever, but he still has yet to show up when it matters most.

CLL, this season should have never come down to this final game.

I'm more concerned about our defense, which blew games in key moments this season.

That said, we are what are record says, and this team was no contender.

Sadly, tonight, it showed.

hitmandm wrote:Danny was not a fan of Gruden or of Kirk. He wanted to Fire Gruden earlier but Scot stopped him. Theres a reason Captain Pick didn't get a nice fat contract and it is because Danny knows KC is not a real franchise QB.

So to your point, when an owner doesn't like the HC and doesn't believe in the QB, anything can happen.

Right and he thought Robert was....of all the things that could happen this offseason I hope Snyder making football decisions is not one of them!!

Almost all of December I have been disappointed in the team. Especially the offense because the offense is supposed to very good. The only game they played exceptional was against the Bears. But come on its the BEARS! Hopefully the right moves are made to still allow us to have plenty of money for the defense! There isn't a replacement for Kirk if he still wants sky high money. If you give him a restricted franchise tag and someone signs him, you will get 2 first round picks. But still that will stunt the offensive growth.

Glad I don't have to make the decision.

FedEx field can't be knocked down soon enough.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

hitmandm wrote:Theres a reason Captain Pick didn't get a nice fat contract and it is because Danny knows KC is not a real franchise QB.

Seriously?

Kirk has set and broken franchise records in back-to-back years.

That kinda spells "franchise" QB imo.

The Skins need to pay the man, and keep building this roster, focusing on the defensive side of the ball first.

He is a loser where it counts which doesn't spell franchise. Let's be honest- last years NFCE leadership was a fluke based on other teams getting hurt, which this year pretty much affirmed. He pads his stats against weak teams and doesn't deliver against winning teams. What is 4500 yards when he chokes it when it counts and we miss the playoffs. He has a lot of offensive talent and he isn't the go to guy. He is Captain Pick- the choker of games and loser of seasons. Trade him for draft picks.

DEHog wrote:

hitmandm wrote:Danny was not a fan of Gruden or of Kirk. He wanted to Fire Gruden earlier but Scot stopped him. Theres a reason Captain Pick didn't get a nice fat contract and it is because Danny knows KC is not a real franchise QB.

So to your point, when an owner doesn't like the HC and doesn't believe in the QB, anything can happen.

Right and he thought Robert was....of all the things that could happen this offseason I hope Snyder making football decisions is not one of them!!

RG3 has more talent than Kirk but could not stay healthy. Kirk is a pick throwing loser that cant win the big game. Its been proven over 2 seasons. And when he chokes and gets sacks and throws picks its the OL fault. Its the running game. Its the defense. blah blah blah. When RG3, who played on a much inferior team with egomaniacal coach, did the same, it was that he held the ball too long and that he couldn't read defenses. I don't believe anything that was written because there were too many agendas that cloud the reality.

What I know is that Kirk keeps failing (proven) and everyone blames everyone but Kirk. He is the same choking loser he has always been and he keeps showing it year after year. If he wants to get paid like the man he should take his share of the blame.

hitmandm wrote:

DEHog wrote:

hitmandm wrote:Danny was not a fan of Gruden or of Kirk. He wanted to Fire Gruden earlier but Scot stopped him. Theres a reason Captain Pick didn't get a nice fat contract and it is because Danny knows KC is not a real franchise QB.

So to your point, when an owner doesn't like the HC and doesn't believe in the QB, anything can happen.

Right and he thought Robert was....of all the things that could happen this offseason I hope Snyder making football decisions is not one of them!!

RG3 has more talent than Kirk but could not stay healthy. Kirk is a pick throwing loser that cant win the big game. Its been proven over 2 seasons. And when he chokes and gets sacks and throws picks its the OL fault. Its the running game. Its the defense. blah blah blah. When RG3, who played on a much inferior team with egomaniacal coach, did the same, it was that he held the ball too long and that he couldn't read defenses. I don't believe anything that was written because there were too many agendas that cloud the reality.

What I know is that Kirk keeps failing (proven) and everyone blames everyone but Kirk. He is the same choking loser he has always been and he keeps showing it year after year. If he wants to get paid like the man he should take his share of the blame.

Right RG really showed us, you're a RG guy we get it.
As for Kirk the Lions and Bengals games were his fault right?

hitmandm wrote:

DEHog wrote:

hitmandm wrote:Danny was not a fan of Gruden or of Kirk. He wanted to Fire Gruden earlier but Scot stopped him. Theres a reason Captain Pick didn't get a nice fat contract and it is because Danny knows KC is not a real franchise QB.

So to your point, when an owner doesn't like the HC and doesn't believe in the QB, anything can happen.

Right and he thought Robert was....of all the things that could happen this offseason I hope Snyder making football decisions is not one of them!!

RG3 has more talent than Kirk but could not stay healthy. Kirk is a pick throwing loser that cant win the big game. Its been proven over 2 seasons. And when he chokes and gets sacks and throws picks its the OL fault. Its the running game. Its the defense. blah blah blah. When RG3, who played on a much inferior team with egomaniacal coach, did the same, it was that he held the ball too long and that he couldn't read defenses. I don't believe anything that was written because there were too many agendas that cloud the reality.

What I know is that Kirk keeps failing (proven) and everyone blames everyone but Kirk. He is the same choking loser he has always been and he keeps showing it year after year. If he wants to get paid like the man he should take his share of the blame.

The pick was the result of a collapse of protection that prevented him from planting on a throw to an open receiver. You don't have to like it... but he is our future quarterback, for the long run... continued pining for a major league underachiever is actually pathetic. OTOH, Gruden is not guaranteed a future here. Mediocrity is not good for a resume.

RG3 has more talent than Kirk but could not stay healthy. Kirk is a pick throwing loser that cant win the big game. Its been proven over 2 seasons. And when he chokes and gets sacks and throws picks its the OL fault. Its the running game. Its the defense. blah blah blah. When RG3, who played on a much inferior team with egomaniacal coach, did the same, it was that he held the ball too long and that he couldn't read defenses. I don't believe anything that was written because there were too many agendas that cloud the reality.

What I know is that Kirk keeps failing (proven) and everyone blames everyone but Kirk. He is the same choking loser he has always been and he keeps showing it year after year. If he wants to get paid like the man he should take his share of the blame.[/quote]
Right RG really showed us, you're a RG guy we get it.
As for Kirk the Lions and Bengals games were his fault right?[/quote]


He cant win the big game. He cant beat winning teams. He is not a franchise QB. He is not worth 20-25m/yr. If you don't get it watch todays game, watch last years wild card game, watch MNF.

What I know is that Kirk keeps failing (proven) and everyone blames everyone but Kirk. He is the same choking loser he has always been and he keeps showing it year after year. If he wants to get paid like the man he should take his share of the blame.[/quote]The pick was the result of a collapse of protection that prevented him from planting on a throw to an open receiver. You don't have to like it... but he is our future quarterback, for the long run... continued pining for a major league underachiever is actually pathetic. OTOH, Gruden is not guaranteed a future here. Mediocrity is not good for a resume.[/quote]

I do not think youre pathetic for your continued support for Kirk Cousins and his inability to play like a decent QB against a winning team, or when the pressure is on. You should not be hard on yourself.

Teams that have QBs of the future lock these QBs to long term contracts. The Redskins did not last year because they wanted to see if he could do it and he did not. He choked, threw picks and could not lead his team against a team who had no real motivation to play. The Redskins don't seem to even think he is the franchise QB of the future as they could have extended anytime all year. All he showed them, and us and the whole NFL is that he is a choker who cant beat a team when it matters.

Actually, since we did not extend him before the July deadline, they cannot negotiate until after the season. If they could, they would have worked on it.

Mississippi Hog wrote:Actually, since we did not extend him before the July deadline, they cannot negotiate until after the season. If they could, they would have worked on it.

Thanks for the info. I did not know that about the July deadline.

There's little doubt that Kirk Cousins will be playing QB here because of the QB market - he certainly did not help himself a lot this season - the stats are fantastic but the "IT" factor is non existent - Cousins is a good NFL QB that's going to get a great deal because of the market NOT because he's going to be an elite QB

the last 2 home game performances were woeful offensively and while that was not all because of Cousins, really good QBs find a way to get their teams up and he's not that type of QB OR that type of team leader

hopefully the idiot owner does not get involved at all

hitmandm wrote:

DEHog wrote:

hitmandm wrote:Danny was not a fan of Gruden or of Kirk. He wanted to Fire Gruden earlier but Scot stopped him. Theres a reason Captain Pick didn't get a nice fat contract and it is because Danny knows KC is not a real franchise QB.

So to your point, when an owner doesn't like the HC and doesn't believe in the QB, anything can happen.

Right and he thought Robert was....of all the things that could happen this offseason I hope Snyder making football decisions is not one of them!!

RG3 has more talent than Kirk but could not stay healthy. Kirk is a pick throwing loser that cant win the big game. Its been proven over 2 seasons. And when he chokes and gets sacks and throws picks its the OL fault. Its the running game. Its the defense. blah blah blah. When RG3, who played on a much inferior team with egomaniacal coach, did the same, it was that he held the ball too long and that he couldn't read defenses. I don't believe anything that was written because there were too many agendas that cloud the reality.

No just hails no. RG3 was flashier but he never got the basics down which is why he is struggling to understand the position to this day. Ask most Browns fans and they'll say the same exact thing we've all said, with the biggest problem: He can't read defenses. After just two or three games with Cle it's apparent to them.

In his last year with The B&G RG3 HAD the same exact line and weapons Capt Kirk had. Griffin made them look like hot garbage. When Big Cuz stepped in, all of a sudden, the line and receiving Corp looked halfway decent? Hmmm well I wonder why? Rob was given way more slack and fans made way more excuses for him than they are for Kirk, right now. Griffin isn't an NFL caliber QB in any capacity. He hasn't grown or progressed in any area. He's still the same player he was since his sophomore season. Big Cuz has evolved

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Kirk is the best QB we've had in forever, but he still has yet to show up when it matters most.

CLL, this season should have never come down to this final game.

I'm more concerned about our defense, which blew games in key moments this season.

That said, we are what are record says, and this team was no contender.

Sadly, tonight, it showed.

I agree, that this season shouldn't have come down to this game... But Kirk tucked his head into his shell during the Carolina and Arizona games too. It's one thing to light it up against a reeling Bears team and it's another to put up those #'s when your season is on the line.

I want Kirk to pan out badly. But I can't ignore his propensity to NOT play his best when it matters most. The playoffs against GB and the games I mentioned in the statement above... Do I hope he can grow into that? Of course. Will he? Who knows. But what we have seen is that he poops his pants in these situations. I mean, I don't understand why people get so upset when that's pointed out. It's happened on a few occasions now.

Chris Cooley who is one of his BIGGEST supporters even admitted to it today. Kirk has wilted in games on the big stage. Surely he's had important games and won them. But games like yesterday are and against Carolina on MNF are different, he needs to win those. He needs to win those to win over the fan base and the nation. Until then, we're going to have a sharp divide amongst the fans.

[So to your point, when an owner doesn't like the HC and doesn't believe in the QB, anything can happen.[/quote]
Right and he thought Robert was....of all the things that could happen this offseason I hope Snyder making football decisions is not one of them!![/quote]

RG3 has more talent than Kirk but could not stay healthy. Kirk is a pick throwing loser that cant win the big game. Its been proven over 2 seasons. And when he chokes and gets sacks and throws picks its the OL fault. Its the running game. Its the defense. blah blah blah. When RG3, who played on a much inferior team with egomaniacal coach, did the same, it was that he held the ball too long and that he couldn't read defenses. I don't believe anything that was written because there were too many agendas that cloud the reality.[/quote]

No just hails no. RG3 was flashier but he never got the basics down which is why he is struggling to understand the position to this day. Ask most Browns fans and they'll say the same exact thing we've all said, with the biggest problem: He can't read defenses. After just two or three games with Cle it's apparent to them.

In his last year with The B&G RG3 HAD the same exact line and weapons Capt Kirk had. Griffin made them look like hot garbage. When Big Cuz stepped in, all of a sudden, the line and receiving Corp looked halfway decent? Hmmm well I wonder why? Rob was given way more slack and fans made way more excuses for him than they are for Kirk, right now. Griffin isn't an NFL caliber QB in any capacity. He hasn't grown or progressed in any area. He's still the same player he was since his sophomore season. Big Cuz has evolved[/quote]

Have you been to Cleveland? The fans there are stupid- the dumbest in the history of any sports franchise. Who I listen to is Joe Thomas where he just said that he thinks that RG3 can be the franchise guy and if he came back next year the locker room would be with him. His last year RG3 did not have the same weapons. Jordan Reed was injured when RG3 was given the opportunity to start. Considering that when healthy JR is a HOF level TE, I think that is a big deal. Other Redskins were injured as well.

Cousins has grown. He went from a good back-up QB to a 8-8 or 9-7 type QB who will choke against good competition and melt when his team needs his the most. That is still a loser in my book and certainly not the guy you invest 100m into.

RG3 has not developed as he should have because of injuries and two overrated coaches who are mywayorthehighway types. The injuries are legit- I don't think he can stay healthy. But RG3 has more talent than KC, no doubt.

Do you honestly believe that? I would wager a years salary that KC will have a longer career in the NFL the RG...providing RG doesn't change position.

DEHog wrote:Do you honestly believe that? I would wager a years salary that KC will have a longer career in the NFL the RG...providing RG doesn't change position.

You're a better man than me, I don't even engage in RGIII discussion at any level.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

DEHog wrote:Do you honestly believe that? I would wager a years salary that KC will have a longer career in the NFL the RG...providing RG doesn't change position.

You're a better man than me, I don't even engage in RGIII discussion at any level.

That's good advice!

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

hitmandm wrote:Theres a reason Captain Pick didn't get a nice fat contract and it is because Danny knows KC is not a real franchise QB.

Seriously?

Kirk has set and broken franchise records in back-to-back years.

That kinda spells "franchise" QB imo.

The Skins need to pay the man, and keep building this roster, focusing on the defensive side of the ball first.

Dan Snyder is not a competent person to judge football talent. Remember Fat Albert, Taylor, Dion Sanders, Shanahan, the other head coaches that he selected, Vinny?

hitmandm wrote:[So to your point, when an owner doesn't like the HC and doesn't believe in the QB, anything can happen.

Right and he thought Robert was....of all the things that could happen this offseason I hope Snyder making football decisions is not one of them!![/quote]

RG3 has more talent than Kirk but could not stay healthy. Kirk is a pick throwing loser that cant win the big game. Its been proven over 2 seasons. And when he chokes and gets sacks and throws picks its the OL fault. Its the running game. Its the defense. blah blah blah. When RG3, who played on a much inferior team with egomaniacal coach, did the same, it was that he held the ball too long and that he couldn't read defenses. I don't believe anything that was written because there were too many agendas that cloud the reality.[/quote]

No just hails no. RG3 was flashier but he never got the basics down which is why he is struggling to understand the position to this day. Ask most Browns fans and they'll say the same exact thing we've all said, with the biggest problem: He can't read defenses. After just two or three games with Cle it's apparent to them.

In his last year with The B&G RG3 HAD the same exact line and weapons Capt Kirk had. Griffin made them look like hot garbage. When Big Cuz stepped in, all of a sudden, the line and receiving Corp looked halfway decent? Hmmm well I wonder why? Rob was given way more slack and fans made way more excuses for him than they are for Kirk, right now. Griffin isn't an NFL caliber QB in any capacity. He hasn't grown or progressed in any area. He's still the same player he was since his sophomore season. Big Cuz has evolved[/quote]

Have you been to Cleveland? The fans there are stupid- the dumbest in the history of any sports franchise. Who I listen to is Joe Thomas where he just said that he thinks that RG3 can be the franchise guy and if he came back next year the locker room would be with him. His last year RG3 did not have the same weapons. Jordan Reed was injured when RG3 was given the opportunity to start. Considering that when healthy JR is a HOF level TE, I think that is a big deal. Other Redskins were injured as well.

Cousins has grown. He went from a good back-up QB to a 8-8 or 9-7 type QB who will choke against good competition and melt when his team needs his the most. That is still a loser in my book and certainly not the guy you invest 100m into.

RG3 has not developed as he should have because of injuries and two overrated coaches who are mywayorthehighway types. The injuries are legit- I don't think he can stay healthy. But RG3 has more talent than KC, no doubt.[/quote]
Cooley just said that 10 coaches have said the film on RG this year is so bad that they can't evaluate the other players on offense