The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

lol. the never ending pain of that story continues...

According to TheUndefeated.com, Griffin called a meeting with Shanahan, his son and offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan and quarterbacks coach Matt LaFleur in February of 2013 and told them to let him speak without interruption. He then informed them that there were 19 plays in Washington’s offense that he would no longer run because he believed he needed to be treated like a pocket passer and not a running quarterback.

Shanahan said he could tell by the way Griffin was talking that he had previously gone over the issue with Snyder.

“When Robert is standing there going through all of that, I know it’s coming from Dan,” Shanahan said. “When Robert talked about ‘unacceptable,’ that was a word Dan used all the time. He was using phrases Dan used all the time. There’s only one way a guy who’s going into his second year would do something like this: If he sat down with the owner and the owner believed that this is the way he should be used. He had to have the full support of the owner and, in my opinion, the general manager to even have a conversation like that. He just had the best year for a rookie QB in the history of the game. You got selected to the Pro Bowl. We went to the playoffs.”

Painful article if you're interested:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... r-offense/

I really wish people would move on. No one is beating Shanahan's door down to coach their ball club. Maybe the fact that he won't accept any responsibility for taking the Redskins job in the first place has something to do with that. At least RGIII was given another opportunity. He knew what he was getting with Dan Snyder. It's not as though Snyder was "hands-off" before Shanahan. Shanahan needs to stop whining about it. The media needs to stop beating a dead horse.

Old news. I'm guessing Shanahan just did another radio interview recently and that's why it was reported?

No its actually sourced from a pretty interesting, very in depth article that just came out.

The Puzzling Plummet of RGIII
http://theundefeated.com/features/the-p ... -of-rgiii/

Skins fans know this story well.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I really wish people would move on. No one is beating Shanahan's door down to coach their ball club. Maybe the fact that he won't accept any responsibility for taking the Redskins job in the first place has something to do with that. At least RGIII was given another opportunity. He knew what he was getting with Dan Snyder. It's not as though Snyder was "hands-off" before Shanahan. Shanahan needs to stop whining about it. The media needs to stop beating a dead horse.

Maybe. Certainly true of PFW. The original article though was asking the question of whether or not Griffin can be successful in Cleveland. I think you have to understand and be honest about what went wrong here to answer that question.

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I really wish people would move on. No one is beating Shanahan's door down to coach their ball club. Maybe the fact that he won't accept any responsibility for taking the Redskins job in the first place has something to do with that. At least RGIII was given another opportunity. He knew what he was getting with Dan Snyder. It's not as though Snyder was "hands-off" before Shanahan. Shanahan needs to stop whining about it. The media needs to stop beating a dead horse.

Maybe. Certainly true of PFW. The original article though was asking the question of whether or not Griffin can be successful in Cleveland. I think you have to understand and be honest about what went wrong here to answer that question.

I'm not convinced one has anything whatsoever to do with the other. RGIII's success or failure in Cleveland will depend upon their ability to utilize his strengths and disguise his weaknesses. It will also depend upon whether or not he's learned how to protect himself. He's a capable player when he's not getting himself injured by making plays that don't need to be made. I think the real question inn Cleveland, where there are no expectations, is "Can RGIII play within himself?"

If he can then he should have some level of success. If not it will likely be his last opportunity.

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I really wish people would move on.
No one is beating Shanahan's door down to coach their ball club. Maybe the fact that he won't accept any responsibility for taking the Redskins job in the first place has something to do with that. ... Mike knew what he was getting with Dan Snyder as an owner before he came in. It's not as though Snyder was "hands-off" before Shanahan. Shanahan needs to stop whining about it. The media needs to stop beating a dead horse.

Maybe. The original article though was asking the question of whether or not Griffin can be successful in Cleveland. I think you have to understand and be honest about what went wrong here to answer that question.

I totally agree that we all need to move on -we know that the Griffin experience here was a disaster & the mistakes made by Snyder, Shanahan & Griffin are numerous - it's over

I strongly disagree that "what went wrong here" will have any bearing at all on Griffin's play at QB in Cleveland

I'm also pretty sure that he will most certainly not be the owner's pet in Cleveland ...

SkinsJock wrote:I strongly disagree that "what went wrong here" will have any bearing at all on Griffin's play at QB in Cleveland

Sorry, I should clarify that statement. Didn't mean to imply that the Snyder shenanigans would have anything to do with how Griffin does in Cleveland. I was talking about some of the other issues related to his playing that the article brought up. Burgundy&GoldForever hit on those things in his comment.

SkinsJock wrote:I'm also pretty sure that he will most certainly not be the owner's pet in Cleveland ..

Man don't jinx the poor kid. Jimmy Haslam may actually be a worse owner than Snyder.

OK - I agree - btw - Haslam may be worse than Snyder but I highly doubt that he treats Griffin the same way as Snyder did

Griffin will be given a lot of help - It's hard to imagine he will get another chance to show that he can play QB in the NFL

if anything, the experience in DC should be a lot of motivation for him to prove that the detractors were wrong



I really hope that Griffin becomes a very good NFL QB, but, he's on OldSchool's team now and I'm a Redskins fan

We all knew Shanny got stuck with Griffin. We heard about the post injury 2013 meeting and Griffin's demand to eliminate the read option and play in the pocket but the Cleveland game story is interesting. I remember being put off when it was evident Griffin was annoyed by Cousins' success in the Cleveland game but Reid's explanation that Griffin was bothered that Cousins wasn't subject to hits running the read option is surprising. Wasn't Griffin aware the Skins were using the read option because Griffin wasn't able to run an NFL offense? How did Griffin practice and prepare next to Cousins and not understand Kirk had a vastly different skill set? In Reid's account Griffin comes off really clueless about his own shortcomings.

Never really got why Griffin's race is such an issue for AA's. I'm 64 so I know how things used to be but with so much progress and success by other black QBs why was it so important racially for Griffin to succeed? It all seems petty and dated to me but according to Reid it was very important for the AA community. All the bitter carping about racism after Griffin was finally benched last year for Cousins provides ample evidence Reid is right. I just don't get it.

Griffin got to run the scout team last year but according to the player source continued to have problems reading defenses and knowing what to do. It will be interesting if Griffin is able to make progress this year from a performance and maturity standpoint in Cleveland. Cleveland has been the graveyard of quarterbacks so it would be impressive and quite a story if Griffin can get over the competency in the pocket hump with the Browns.

OldSchool wrote:Never really got why Griffin's race is such an issue for AA's. I'm 64 so I know how things used to be but with so much progress and success by other black QBs why was it so important racially for Griffin to succeed? It all seems petty and dated to me but according to Reid it was very important for the AA community. All the bitter carping about racism after Griffin was finally benched last year for Cousins provides ample evidence Reid is right. I just don't get it.

Not sure how true it is or not, but that new site THE UNDEFEATED is kind of taking that angle in their stories. "The Undefeated is the premier platform for exploring the intersections of race, sports and culture." Which like you said, sort of seems like a dated idea itself or at least something most of us hope is "dated".

riggofan wrote:

OldSchool wrote:Never really got why Griffin's race is such an issue for AA's. I'm 64 so I know how things used to be but with so much progress and success by other black QBs why was it so important racially for Griffin to succeed? It all seems petty and dated to me but according to Reid it was very important for the AA community. All the bitter carping about racism after Griffin was finally benched last year for Cousins provides ample evidence Reid is right. I just don't get it.

Not sure how true it is or not, but that new site THE UNDEFEATED is kind of taking that angle in their stories. "The Undefeated is the premier platform for exploring the intersections of race, sports and culture." Which like you said, sort of seems like a dated idea itself or at least something most of us hope is "dated".

Race should necessarily be left out of sports discussion. We know what race these athletes are because we see them perform on gamedays. We don't need to be reminded which athlete is which race.

You know who brings up race in sports? Racists.

If that's their angle they might want to find another one.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:Race should necessarily be left out of sports discussion. We know what race these athletes are because we see them perform on gamedays. We don't need to be reminded which athlete is which race.

You know who brings up race in sports? Racists.

If that's their angle they might want to find another one.

Naive BS. Race is still an issue in all kinds of area of life. You don't have to be a "racist" to have intelligent conversations or discussions about it.

This is a one sided "Shanny" special. Guy continues to spread blame about the failure of RG3 as if it's solely RG3 and Snyder's fault. Yeah, there is fault on that side, but Shanahan has also got to bear some blame and consistently acts as if he was a victim.

For example, in the article, it paints a picture where RG3 calls them into a room and tells them essentially to sit down and shut up while he talks. What coach would put up with that kind of intro? Especially a coach who is a notorious control freak like Shanny has been. Who actually believes this happened?

It's amazing he continually tars and feathers RG3, when he owes a debt to RG3; he had a very unsuccessful stint in DC up until 2012, and even during that year, essentially threw the towel in at 3-6 (remember the whole "We'll see who plays for a job next year") until the team rallied. Besides that 2012 year, Shanahan was a horrible coach in DC. 6-10, 5-11, 10-6, 3-13. He was worse than Zorn.

I'm tired of hearing from Shanahan. I'm tired of hearing about RG3. He's not in DC anymore, so good riddance.

PulpExposure wrote:For example, in the article, it paints a picture where RG3 calls them into a room and tells them essentially to sit down and shut up while he talks. What coach would put up with that kind of intro? Especially a coach who is a notorious control freak like Shanny has been. Who actually believes this happened?

Man, I don't know if that actually happened or not the way it was described. But I agree with your sentiment. Not just on Griffin but on the way Shanahan dealt with Snyder in general. If things went down the way Shanahan claims they did, I actually think that looks worse for him than if he had been totally on board with drafting Griffin and just failed to develop the player. You, as the super bowl winning head coach, allowed Dan Snyder to run wild over you and allowed your rookie QB to hold this meeting?

1) Its kind of insane. and 2) Its not the way a leader in any field with the courage of his convictions handles a situation.

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:Race should necessarily be left out of sports discussion. We know what race these athletes are because we see them perform on gamedays. We don't need to be reminded which athlete is which race.

You know who brings up race in sports? Racists.

If that's their angle they might want to find another one.

Naive BS. Race is still an issue in all kinds of area of life. You don't have to be a "racist" to have intelligent conversations or discussions about it.

For argument's sake, what is the intelligent part of the race discussion as it pertains to sports?

Snyder, Shanahan and Griffin all bear some responsibility for what happened here with RG3 - if Griffin shows he can be an NFL QB it would mean that he was not managed/prepared properly & certainly that Snyder was the main reason for all the issues that resulted from that


to be continued - count on it

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:Race should necessarily be left out of sports discussion. We know what race these athletes are because we see them perform on gamedays. We don't need to be reminded which athlete is which race.

You know who brings up race in sports? Racists.

If that's their angle they might want to find another one.

Naive BS. Race is still an issue in all kinds of area of life. You don't have to be a "racist" to have intelligent conversations or discussions about it.

For argument's sake, what is the intelligent part of the race discussion as it pertains to sports?

Racial bias? Prejudice? Making assumptions about players based on their ethnicity? Those thing still exist, and I don't personally believe there is anything "racist" about discussing it honestly. The NFL is better today because smart people spoke up about how black QBs were being treated, how qualified coaches weren't getting opportunities. Those people weren't racists for starting the discussion.

riggofan wrote:Racial bias? Prejudice? Making assumptions about players based on their ethnicity? Those thing still exist, and I don't personally believe there is anything "racist" about discussing it honestly. The NFL is better today because smart people spoke up about how black QBs were being treated, how qualified coaches weren't getting opportunities. Those people weren't racists for starting the discussion.

Those are fair points although I'd like to think we've moved past the "Black coaches aren't smart enough to coach" and the "Black players aren't smart enough to play quarterback at the NFL level" nonsense.

It wouldn't hurt sports if there were a few more Black owners. The NFL is mostly a good old boys club of WASP owners. That's the next challenge, IMO.

Those have both been proven empirically incorrect many times over now. It's the individual, not the race of the individual.

We're now onto the "Black people aren't smart enough to be President" thing. That, too, shall pass.

Thinking about this story a little more I think Shanahan has probably reconciled himself to his career being over so he finally spit all the bile in his gut about the Snyder/Griffin cabal and took a parting shot at Bruce Allen in the process. A year ago Shanny wasn't nearly as direct in his criticism as this story. He wanted to finally lay it all out and doesn't care now because he's done.

OldSchool wrote:Thinking about this story a little more I think Shanahan has probably reconciled himself to his career being over so he finally spit all the bile in his gut about the Snyder/Griffin cabal and took a parting shot at Bruce Allen in the process. A year ago Shanny wasn't nearly as direct in his criticism as this story. He wanted to finally lay it all out and doesn't care now because he's done.

More like he's trying desperately to preserve some sort of legacy. I'm sure he want's to be included in the discussions for HOF candidacy, but like Pulp said, he was pretty much sucking wind in DC until RGIII saved his bacon in 2012. Funny, he wants credit for 2012, while at the same time trying to distance himself from it. He never really did much in Denver either without Elway to elevate him.

Deadskins wrote:I'm sure he want's to be included in the discussions for HOF candidacy, but like Pulp said, he was pretty much sucking wind in DC until RGIII saved his bacon in 2012.

I disagree. The Rex/Beck year was one of the finest pieces of coaching I've ever witnessed. Canton awaits, sir!

there's no way that Snyder, Shanahan or Griffin can be believed regarding what really took place here in the period from when he was taken in the draft, till when he was let go - the only thing we believe is what we saw on the field and on the scoreboard

I was one that hoped that Shanahan and Allen would take control away from Snyder - It's not too much of a stretch to say that the Redskins were actually worse off at the end of Shanahan's stay and for sure the Redskins were better off before Snyder took over ...

I am not local so I may have missed a lot but all I ever remember Jason Reid saying was "Winter is Coming." I knew he was one of the first to turn on RG3 but why didn't he report some of this stuff earlier?

cleg wrote:I am not local so I may have missed a lot but all I ever remember Jason Reid saying was "Winter is Coming." I knew he was one of the first to turn on RG3 but why didn't he report some of this stuff earlier?

Just a guess but Reid has a real soft spot for RGIII. And he's not one to write "Black Negative" works.

If he can't say anything nice about a Black player he doesn't say anything.

White coaches, on the other hand ...