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N.F.L. Shifts on Concussions

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:07 am
by welch
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/16/sport ... pe=article

By KEN BELSON and ALAN SCHWARZMARCH 15, 2016, NY Times

After years of the N.F.L.‘s disputing evidence that connected football to chronic traumatic encephalopathy, the degenerative brain disease found in nearly 100 former players, a top official for the league for the first time acknowledged the link. To many, it was an echo of big tobacco’s confession in 1997 that smoking causes cancer and heart disease.

Representative Jan Schakowsky, Democrat of Illinois, asked during a round-table discussion about concussions whether “there is a link between football and degenerative brain disorders like C.T.E.”

Jeff Miller, the N.F.L.’s senior vice president for health and safety policy, said, “The answer to that is certainly, yes.” His response signaled a stunning about-face for the league, which has been accused by former players and independent experts of hiding the dangers of head injuries for decades.

His reply came moments after a leading C.T.E. researcher — Dr. Ann McKee — had presented her findings, showing that dozens of former players who had died were afflicted with the disease.


Full article, and related stories, at the link above.

Re: N.F.L. Shifts on Concussions

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:07 am
by Burgundy&GoldForever
This could potentially hurt league revenue to the tune of billions. Not only are they looking at liability for former players but also at equipment which is obviously ineffective. The game may become a non-contact sport when all is said and done.

I'm not even certain the league can add a medical release and hold harmless clause to player contracts in regard to CTE. Maybe someone well versed in not only the language of the CBA but also labor law could answer that.

Re: N.F.L. Shifts on Concussions

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:49 am
by DEHog
Instead of paying out billions wouldn't the money be better spent by opening 2 or 3 TBI Centers to treat, diagnose and research concussions and CTE...It would cost the league less money and better serve the players IMO.

Re: N.F.L. Shifts on Concussions

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:22 am
by Burgundy&GoldForever
DEHog wrote:Instead of paying out billions wouldn't the money be better spent by opening 2 or 3 TBI Centers to treat, diagnose and research concussions and CTE...It would cost the league less money and better serve the players IMO.


An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as the saying goes. They obviously need better helmets. The Cryolite and foam isn't protecting anyone. But nothing is going to prevent concussions entirely. I'm not sure there's anything they can do to eliminate the risk other than making the game a non-contact sport. I don't see the league voluntarily going in that direction but they have made rules which have fundamentally changed the game in the interest of reducing head injuries. The fact that those changes haven't worked is the disturbing part. Players are stronger and faster and better trained than ever before. There were fewer head injuries when players wore leather helmets and no facemasks. The equipment hasn't kept up with the players. I'm sure the NFL will blame Riddell or Pro-Line if it comes to that.

Re: N.F.L. Shifts on Concussions

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:05 am
by Countertrey
Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:
DEHog wrote:Instead of paying out billions wouldn't the money be better spent by opening 2 or 3 TBI Centers to treat, diagnose and research concussions and CTE...It would cost the league less money and better serve the players IMO.


An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as the saying goes. They obviously need better helmets. The Cryolite and foam isn't protecting anyone. But nothing is going to prevent concussions entirely. I'm not sure there's anything they can do to eliminate the risk other than making the game a non-contact sport. I don't see the league voluntarily going in that direction but they have made rules which have fundamentally changed the game in the interest of reducing head injuries. The fact that those changes haven't worked is the disturbing part. Players are stronger and faster and better trained than ever before. There were fewer head injuries when players wore leather helmets and no facemasks. The equipment hasn't kept up with the players. I'm sure the NFL will blame Riddell or Pro-Line if it comes to that.

I would contend that the improved protection offered by modern equipment, along with rules that have eliminated defensive tactics such as the bump and run (which eliminate the distance between the db and receiver, therefore reducing the frequency of truly violent hits), have contributed to the rise in these injuries even more than the physical quality and talent of the players. Yes... I am saying that I believe that better equipment (not inadequate equipment) has played a major role in the increase in head injuries. Quality equipment encourages players to lead with their heads, and gives them greater confidence to put great force into their hits... increasing the likelihood of coup-countercoup violence within the cranial vault.

I fear this sport may not survive.

Re: N.F.L. Shifts on Concussions

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:37 am
by DEHog
I agree with you CT, we are seeing the numbers in high school already drop off, and I think the high school game is still pretty safe. I think 100 years from now they will make movies about the players/sport.
One area that needs drastic improvement is tackling, it’s ironic that the NFL has a grassroots programs called “heads up” and their league may be the biggest violators. I love that the Seahawks introduced their players to what they call Hawks Tackling, Carroll reach out to Rugby teams to learn and teach the method…The Seahawks may be the best tackling team in the NFL!!

Re: N.F.L. Shifts on Concussions

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:35 pm
by DarthMonk
Countertrey wrote:
Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:
DEHog wrote:Instead of paying out billions wouldn't the money be better spent by opening 2 or 3 TBI Centers to treat, diagnose and research concussions and CTE...It would cost the league less money and better serve the players IMO.


An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as the saying goes. They obviously need better helmets. The Cryolite and foam isn't protecting anyone. But nothing is going to prevent concussions entirely. I'm not sure there's anything they can do to eliminate the risk other than making the game a non-contact sport. I don't see the league voluntarily going in that direction but they have made rules which have fundamentally changed the game in the interest of reducing head injuries. The fact that those changes haven't worked is the disturbing part. Players are stronger and faster and better trained than ever before. There were fewer head injuries when players wore leather helmets and no facemasks. The equipment hasn't kept up with the players. I'm sure the NFL will blame Riddell or Pro-Line if it comes to that.

I would contend that the improved protection offered by modern equipment, along with rules that have eliminated defensive tactics such as the bump and run (which eliminate the distance between the db and receiver, therefore reducing the frequency of truly violent hits), have contributed to the rise in these injuries even more than the physical quality and talent of the players. Yes... I am saying that I believe that better equipment (not inadequate equipment) has played a major role in the increase in head injuries. Quality equipment encourages players to lead with their heads, and gives them greater confidence to put great force into their hits... increasing the likelihood of coup-countercoup violence within the cranial vault.

I fear this sport may not survive.


I agree and have posted similar points. Many rule changes have had had unintended consequences. For example, not allowing contact after 5 yards encouraged safeties to load up and try to time hits with catches which led to the defenseless receiver rule. Now the lower strike zone may lead to more neck whiplash and knee injuries.

Re: N.F.L. Shifts on Concussions

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:25 pm
by welch
Countertrey wrote:
Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:
DEHog wrote:Instead of paying out billions wouldn't the money be better spent by opening 2 or 3 TBI Centers to treat, diagnose and research concussions and CTE...It would cost the league less money and better serve the players IMO.


An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as the saying goes. They obviously need better helmets. The Cryolite and foam isn't protecting anyone. But nothing is going to prevent concussions entirely. I'm not sure there's anything they can do to eliminate the risk other than making the game a non-contact sport. I don't see the league voluntarily going in that direction but they have made rules which have fundamentally changed the game in the interest of reducing head injuries. The fact that those changes haven't worked is the disturbing part. Players are stronger and faster and better trained than ever before. There were fewer head injuries when players wore leather helmets and no facemasks. The equipment hasn't kept up with the players. I'm sure the NFL will blame Riddell or Pro-Line if it comes to that.

I would contend that the improved protection offered by modern equipment, along with rules that have eliminated defensive tactics such as the bump and run (which eliminate the distance between the db and receiver, therefore reducing the frequency of truly violent hits), have contributed to the rise in these injuries even more than the physical quality and talent of the players. Yes... I am saying that I believe that better equipment (not inadequate equipment) has played a major role in the increase in head injuries. Quality equipment encourages players to lead with their heads, and gives them greater confidence to put great force into their hits... increasing the likelihood of coup-countercoup violence within the cranial vault.

I fear this sport may not survive.


I think (or guess) the same thing: imp[roved equipment allows players to use their helmets as a weapon. The "leather-helmet" players have died off, but perhaps the NFL should sample players

- from the '50s, when face-masks we less elaborate
- from rugby leagues...

Interesting "data-point" that the Seahawks consulted with rugby players about proper tackling. Way back when I learned football, our coaches taught us to block and tackle with our shoulders. Never lead with the head. We had single-bar face masks, so nobody wanted to dive, face-first, at a runner's knees

Re: N.F.L. Shifts on Concussions

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:14 pm
by welch
And more:

NY Times presents evidence that the NFL's own study of concussions removed about 10% of the data and that this changed the results:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/25/sport ... bacco.html


Today, the NFL insists that the Times is mistaken; demands a retraction:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear ... n-the-news

Not content with a strongly-worded rebuttal and strategically-placed digital ads, the NFL is taking its fight against the New York Times a step further, demanding retraction of a story the newspaper published last week about the league’s allegedly incomplete concussion research and alleged ties to Big Tobacco.

Brad S. Karp, the NFL’s legal counsel, wrote that the story, which was headlined “NFL’s Flawed Concussion Research and Ties to the Tobacco Industry” is “false and defamatory” in a letter to the Times that was obtained by Politico. Karp, of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison, writes: “Like the ‘Big Tobacco’ charge, the thesis that the NFL manipulated concussion data to skew research on which the [l]eague continues to rely is false and defamatory and not supported by the facts set forth in the story.”

Karp hints that legal action may be in the offing, too, by requesting that “the Times reporters and editors who worked on this story preserve their notes, correspondence, emails, recordings and work papers and all other electronic and hard copy documents generated or received in connection with this work.”


See both stories for more details.