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Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:35 am
by riggofan
Probably the best article I've seen so far about how the Cousins negotiations are shaping up.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... -look-likeAgent's Take: What will Kirk Cousins' next contract look like?There's a lot of good info in there but kind of thought this was the key portion:
Quarterback is the ultimate leverage position in the NFL because teams would rather pay for mediocrity than start over with a high draft pick or another veteran that isn't a big upgrade. This general proposition will put Cousins in the driver's seat with Washington for negotiations to retain him provided he doesn't revert to his 2014 season form, which got him benched, during the last three games. It seems unlikely considering Cousins' growth as a quarterback this season.
Cousins has excellent representation in Mike McCartney of Priority Sports. Two of his stronger deals have been defensive tackle Haloti Ngata's five-year, $61 million contract ($35 million guaranteed) with the Baltimore Ravens in 2011 when he was a franchise player and the five-year, $43.5 million contract running back Arian Foster received from the Houston Texans in 2012. Ngata's deal was extremely front-loaded with over 65 percent of his compensation in the first two years. Since Foster was going to receive a $2.742 million restricted free agent tender absent the deal, the average value of the four unrestricted years he gave up is $10,189,500 per year.
It would not be a surprise if McCartney sought a long-term deal comparable to the contract package of the average starting quarterback on a veteran deal. The two contracts which most closely approximate these figures belong to Alex Smith and Matthew Stafford. Smith signed a four-year, $68 million extension containing $45 million in guarantees, of which $30 million was fully guaranteed at signing, from the Kansas City Chiefs in 2014. Stafford received a three-year, $53 million extension from the Detroit Lions in 2013 with $41.5 million in guarantees. $33.5 million was fully guaranteed at signing.
The Redskins will likely be extremely hesitant about making such a significant multi-year commitment to Cousins because there isn't enough of a track record for them to feel comfortable unless the threat of interest from another team in free agency forces their hand.
Also:
The Franchise Tag Factor
There are more NFL teams than capable starting quarterbacks, which is why Cousins receiving a franchise tag isn't out of the question. Several things would need to occur to make it a realistic possibility. Cousins would need to perform like he did on the road in Chicago (or close to it) against the Cowboys and Eagles. This would probably result in the Redskins hosting a playoff game in the wild-card round, presumably versus the Seattle Seahawks, for winning the NFC East. Beating the two-time defending NFC Champions would be a tremendous upset. Under this scenario, owner Daniel Snyder wouldn't want to risk losing Cousins to free agency if the franchise's first playoff victory in a decade occurred with him under center.
The non-exclusive quarterback franchise tag should be $19.671 million with a $153.4 million 2016 salary cap, which is the high end of salary cap projections recently given to NFL teams. Cousins merely putting himself in a position where a franchise tag is a serious consideration would give him the leverage to force the Redskins into making a long-term commitment where his deal would approach top-tier quarterback money.
I can guarantee you that somebody is going to chime in here and complain about Cousins being "greedy". Just want to preemptively say that's complete BS. NFL teams are making BILLIONS of dollars. Every player whether its Ndamakong Suh or Kirk Cousins deserves to negotiate for every dollar they can get in their short career.
Good for Cousins though in any event. If the scenario plays out where we end up hosting a playoff game and Cousins earns a big paycheck, I don't think many Redskins fans will be complaining.
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:46 am
by Deadskins
riggofan wrote:I can guarantee you that somebody is going to chime in here and complain about Cousins being "greedy".
I can't see that at all. No player is greedy for getting what he can, while he can. If the team is willing to pay, then that's on them, not the player.
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:49 am
by OldSchool
Let's hope Kirk can win a couple more games and the division crown and earn a big long term contract!
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:51 am
by riggofan
Deadskins wrote:riggofan wrote:I can guarantee you that somebody is going to chime in here and complain about Cousins being "greedy".
I can't see that at all. No player is greedy for getting what he can, while he can. If the team is willing to pay, then that's on them, not the player.
Exactly.
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:13 am
by SkinsJock
Deadskins wrote:riggofan wrote:I can guarantee you that somebody is going to chime in here and complain about Cousins being "greedy".
I can't see that at all.
No player is greedy for getting what he can, while he can. If the team is willing to pay, then that's on them, not the player.
I agree JSPB and I have used the word "greedy" - I'm hoping for a fair deal for both Kirk Cousins and the Redskins - I hope that Cousins gets a bunch of money because we can afford it - I also want a deal that "protects" both parties - if Cousins produces, he gets paid, if he does not, he gets what he's worth - I have a lot of faith in Scot & this FO to put together a fair deal - The NFL contracts are different from MLB - the MLB player contracts are primarily based on what you've done - the NFL contracts are primarily based on what you're going to do for the franchise
I'm not as worried about this as some of the kissing Cousins guys are - we have a good GM & FO plus a very wealthy owner backing them up
PAY THE MAN for crying out loud
give it a break guys - just because we're not a bunch of kiss-asses doesn't mean we're complaining
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:24 am
by Burgundy&GoldForever
Deadskins wrote:riggofan wrote:I can guarantee you that somebody is going to chime in here and complain about Cousins being "greedy".
I can't see that at all. No player is greedy for getting what he can, while he can. If the team is willing to pay, then that's on them, not the player.
Albert Haynesworth was.
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:50 am
by markshark84
That is a good information, IMHO. In the "resign Cousins" thread I had said the contract would be between the Alex Smith and Dalton range, but I didn't know who his agent is --- and that he has an agent that focuses (and rightly so) on the guaranteed side of the contract.
Knowing that, I still can't understand how the Stafford deal would be a decent comparison (Dalton's contract has little, $17M of the total $96M number (6 years), guaranteed --- and he got ripped but that's what you get for having a bad contract year). I don't see him getting $41M guaranteed over a 3 year period. He'll most likely get $40M+ guaranteed, but only if the contract is for 4+ years.
If you look at most 4+ year contract QBs, the guaranteed portion of their contract hovers in the 50-65% range, depending on how established they are. I'd still expect to see something in the Smith-Dalton range since Cousins hasn't proven his consistency (like Dalton at the time of his contract) but enough to warrant a long term deal (like Smith), but with more guaranteed money than Dalton (17%) and a lower per-year average salary than Smith ($17M). We shall see.
Then again, if I were him, I wouldn't oppose being franchised and working out a deal mid season. I think in total, he'd end up with more overall $$$ that way.
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:24 pm
by DEHog
This would probably result in the Redskins hosting a playoff game in the wild-card round, presumably versus the Seattle Seahawks, for winning the NFC East. Beating the two-time defending NFC Champions would be a tremendous upset. Under this scenario, owner Daniel Snyder wouldn't want to risk losing Cousins to free agency if the franchise's first playoff victory in a decade occurred with him under center.
Snyder would back up a brinks truck to Cousins house if this happened!!
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:33 pm
by SkinsJock
DEHog wrote:Winning the NFC East would mean the Redskins will host a playoff game, at this time that would be the Seattle Seahawks - if the Redskins could find a way to win this game
Snyder would back up a brinks truck to Cousins house if this happened!!
and quite possibly more than 1 ...
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:45 pm
by riggofan
markshark84 wrote:Knowing that, I still can't understand how the Stafford deal would be a decent comparison (Dalton's contract has little, $17M of the total $96M number (6 years), guaranteed --- and he got ripped but that's what you get for having a bad contract year). I don't see him getting $41M guaranteed over a 3 year period. He'll most likely get $40M+ guaranteed, but only if the contract is for 4+ years.
Yeah I took away from the article that that is the type of contract his agent will pursue, but I agree with you that I'd be surprised if he actually got something that high. I'm confident Allen can put together a deal that would be good for both sides. Mostly though I'm just happy that McCloughan is here to make the decision on whether any such deal is actually worth it or not.
SkinsJock wrote:give it a break guys - just because we're not a bunch of kiss-asses doesn't mean we're complaining
I hear you, man. I wasn't trying to needle anybody. Like I wrote above, I expect that if Cousins finishes the season well - and especially if we somehow end up with a playoff game - most fans won't be complaining about bringing Cousins back next year.
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:58 pm
by SkinsJock
the fact is, at this time, Kirk Cousins is by far the best QB available and he's here - we are V fortunate to have a good GM (& FO) that will be able to put together a great deal for both sides to ensure that Kirk Cousins is playing here - the market will determine his value and it will be met
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:08 pm
by SkinsJock
riggofan wrote:... I'm confident Allen can put together a deal that would be good for both sides. Mostly though I'm just happy that McCloughan is here to make the decision on whether any such deal is actually worth it or not.
you always have had a much better way of explaining things .... when I agree with you, that is
With Allen and McCloughan managing things together and Dan Snyder's support/pocketbook - this franchise could be in for a much quicker turnaround than many of us thought possible - the season started 4 months ago
this franchise is not the laughingstock of the NFL anymore - not even close
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:31 pm
by Deadskins
DEHog wrote:This would probably result in the Redskins hosting a playoff game in the wild-card round, presumably versus the Seattle Seahawks, for winning the NFC East. Beating the two-time defending NFC Champions would be a tremendous upset. Under this scenario, owner Daniel Snyder wouldn't want to risk losing Cousins to free agency if the franchise's first playoff victory in a decade occurred with him under center.
Snyder would back up a brinks truck to Cousins house if this happened!!
Hell, I'd chip in if we could beat the Shehawks in the playoffs.
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:32 pm
by PulpExposure
markshark84 wrote:Knowing that, I still can't understand how the Stafford deal would be a decent comparison
I agree. That contract came on the heels of two monster seasons where combined Stafford threw for just about 10,000 yards and 61 TDs.
That's a wee bit different than where Kirk is going to be.
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:50 pm
by Irn-Bru
Deadskins wrote:DEHog wrote:This would probably result in the Redskins hosting a playoff game in the wild-card round, presumably versus the Seattle Seahawks, for winning the NFC East. Beating the two-time defending NFC Champions would be a tremendous upset. Under this scenario, owner Daniel Snyder wouldn't want to risk losing Cousins to free agency if the franchise's first playoff victory in a decade occurred with him under center.
Snyder would back up a brinks truck to Cousins house if this happened!!
Hell, I'd chip in if we could beat the Shehawks in the playoffs.
I think I would get more pleasure out of a revenge win against Seattle than I would just about any other victory, possibly even a Super Bowl.
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:25 pm
by OldSchool
I understand this season is the only full season the Redskins have measure but that is on the Skins who didn't compete the job earlier. What I am trying to say I don't think other teams are going to care Kirk only did it for 1 year they are going to spend because he has shown he can do it when his team finally gave him a season. That's why I'd rather settle with him big long before he's a free agent. Make him an offer his agent won't want to quibble about and soon. If it ends up being 20, 30, 50 or 60% too much I don't care. Kirk isn't Fat Albert he's a young, driven, perfectionist who will continue to bust his butt to get better.
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:57 pm
by SkinsJock
OS - you are just so predictable - Kirk Cousins value is not just because he's proving he can play, the other key, very important factor is that there's no other FA QB even close to him ... FWIW - we are keeping Cousins and it's not going to be what Kirk Cousins or the agent wants or thinks is the right $ - our FO will know the market value and his value to us better than anyone, including you and your kissing Cousins buddies
btw - your other 'buddy' QB Johnny Manziel had a good outing Sunday - you must be ecstatic that Jerry Jones loves him too
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:28 pm
by markshark84
OldSchool wrote:I understand this season is the only full season the Redskins have measure but that is on the Skins who didn't compete the job earlier. What I am trying to say I don't think other teams are going to care Kirk only did it for 1 year they are going to spend because he has shown he can do it when his team finally gave him a season. That's why I'd rather settle with him big long before he's a free agent. Make him an offer his agent won't want to quibble about and soon. If it ends up being 20, 30, 50 or 60% too much I don't care. Kirk isn't Fat Albert he's a young, driven, perfectionist who will continue to bust his butt to get better.
You don't have to do that. Franchise him in 2016 and take the entire 2016 to work something out.
Thankfully you aren't doing the negotiations, you'd offer him like $25M a year or something. The market will dictate.
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:29 pm
by markshark84
SkinsJock wrote:OS - you are just so predictable - Kirk Cousins value is not just because he's proving he can play, the other key, very important factor is that there's no other FA QB even close to him ...
MANY would argue Osweiler is.......
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:47 am
by SkinsJock
markshark84 wrote:SkinsJock wrote:OS - you are just so predictable - Kirk Cousins value is not just because he's proving he can play QB, the other key, very important factor is that there's no other FA QB even close to him ...
MANY would argue Osweiler is.......
who is there that is available that comes even close to being as valuable or as good a QB FOR THE REDSKINS as Kirk Cousins is
some guys here need constant 'clarification' of each and every little detail and I'm happy to 'clarify' each and every time
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:52 am
by SkinsJock
markshark84 wrote:OldSchool wrote:... Make him an offer his agent won't want to quibble about and soon. If it ends up being 20, 30, 50 or 60% too much I don't care...
Thankfully you aren't doing the negotiations, you'd offer him like $25M a year or something.
OS doesn't care - he just wants Kirk Cousins here - in fact he's basically implying that we should overpay him - the more the better
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:36 pm
by markshark84
SkinsJock wrote:markshark84 wrote:SkinsJock wrote:OS - you are just so predictable - Kirk Cousins value is not just because he's proving he can play QB, the other key, very important factor is that there's no other FA QB even close to him ...
MANY would argue Osweiler is.......
who is there that is available that comes even close to being as valuable or as good a QB FOR THE REDSKINS as Kirk Cousins is
some guys here need constant 'clarification' of each and every little detail and I'm happy to 'clarify' each and every time
Yeah....... that is what I meant...... even though you still should have been more specific ---- since to many posters here a large amount of your posts make no sense/directly contradict what you have previously said....
Some may argue that Osweiler could very well be a better value or overall fit in DC. After all, Kubiak's offense is VERY similar to Grudens. And I mean
VERY. Being in Houston, I am now (to put it mildly) quite familiar with both.
Do you need me to "clarify" who Kubiak is?
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:10 pm
by SkinsJock
go ahead and argue all you want - there's no doubt in my mind which of the 2 QBs Scot prefers and will be trying to bring in here
but, knock yourself out and dig up a bunch of stats and BS that support your 'argument', I could care less ...
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:46 pm
by markshark84
SkinsJock wrote:go ahead and argue all you want - there's no doubt in my mind which of the 2 QBs Scot prefers and will be trying to bring in here
but, knock yourself out and dig up a bunch of stats and BS that support your 'argument', I could care less ...
Yeah, lets not let facts get in the way of things......
I'll do you a favor and leave it at that. I'm feeling generous with it being Christmas time and all.
Re: Cousins is going to get paid
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:07 pm
by SkinsJock
markshark84 wrote: Some may argue that Osweiler could very well be a better value or overall fit in DC. After all, Kubiak's offense is VERY similar to Grudens. And I mean VERY. Being in Houston, I am now (to put it mildly) quite familiar with both.
Do you need me to "clarify" who Kubiak is?
Do you mean this Gary Kuibiak? .... really ...
and - this is the QB that you and "many" might consider a good fit here ...
There's a quarterback controversy awakening for a legitimate Super Bowl contender. But this isn't a Brady-Bledsoe debate for Broncos head coach Gary Kubiak. He's picking between two duds. Peyton Manning is a corpse and Brock Osweiler just isn't very good.
So, who should Kubiak choose? The 39-year-old hobbled quarterback who can't feel his fingertips and can't stop throwing picks? Or the 25-year-old quarterback who can't find the end zone? With Manning returning to practice this week, the decision looms, but really it shouldn't be much of a debate. Kubiak needs to turn the offense back over to Manning once he's healthy.
Yes, Manning is throwing an interception on 5.3 percent of his passes. He hasn't played since Nov. 15 and he still leads the league in picks. His quarterback rating is idling at 67.6.
But, on the other hand, the Broncos offense has stalled with Osweiler at the helm. Since Osweiler began starting, the Broncos lead the league in three-and-outs, per Gil Brandt.
The Broncos' most recent touchdown came on their first drive of the game against the Chargers, two Sundays ago. Since then? It's been 23 straight drives without a touchdown
I'm not sure that Scot & our FO would agree with you and all those many others about Brock being close to Kirk
but, then again ... what do I know
OH! - and a Merry Christmas to you too