The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Ive grown sick of the bashing of Griffins character when really he has done nothing wrong other then being a young man whos growing. He has not commited any crimes yet gets assasinated by the very fans he once played so hard for.


Well the cards are in place for Gruden to take this division. The Cowpies lost Tony Romo and Dez Bryant. The Eagles are a mess. Only real contender is the Giants who can be beat if we execute.

So really its there for our team to take. No reason why we cant win this division.

Griffin won us the division against the Pies in primetime on the world stage at the end of the season in 2012. Yes Kirk helped us big in the Ravens game and the following game as well.

So really I expect the same from this team. We are more talented now then we were in 2012. No reason why we cant win this.

Ill be a believer if Kirk can win us the division this year. Its there for the taking. I actually believe Kirk is capable and the this team as well. Still not sold by any means on Gruden. But if we can take the division then ill eat crow happily.

One game at a time. Its a long season. But we all know what we want from our team. Another Lombardi. A playoff appearance would do wonders for our quest for another Lombardi.

Teams that make it to the playoffs are considered good. Thats what its all about winning. So far so good. Lets keep this thing rolling. Lets go Captain Kirk. Snatch victory. Make me a believer.

I love the positivity, and I'm on board with believing that this division is wide open. But this:

HEROHAMO wrote:Ive grown sick of the bashing of Griffins character when really he has done nothing wrong other then being a young man whos growing. He has not commited any crimes yet gets assasinated by the very fans he once played so hard for.

Nobody is bashing his character. The majority of fans just simply realize that he was fools gold at this point.

A) We're not winning the division.

B) Griffin may have the personality of Jesus but he sucks as an NFL quarterback.

C) The two topics are mutually exclusive, so which is the topic?

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:The two topics are mutually exclusive

No, they aren't.

Deadskins wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:The two topics are mutually exclusive

No, they aren't.

Griffin is in street clothes, so he has absolutely nothing to do with winning the division. Connect the dots for me.

The point is that the NFC East division title is up for grabs and if Kirk and the other players, play well, the case can be made that the Redskins could be the division champs - the 2 favorites (pukes and eagals) have certainly not shown much and I agree with HH - we can win this

IT TAKES A TEAM and Griffin is on the roster for a reason - if we win the Super Bowl and he's a part of the roster, he gets the same ring as Kirk



Griffin's contribution to this franchise this season is unknown but the reality is he's a part of this roster and 2012 was not all scheme

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:The two topics are mutually exclusive

No, they aren't.

Griffin is in street clothes, so he has absolutely nothing to do with winning the division. Connect the dots for me.

THANKFULLY - you do not make player decisions here ... at least, I don't think you do ... is that not true?

Scot may trade Griffin for a player that helps make this team better - while Scot made the decision, Griffin might "help" make us better

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:The two topics are mutually exclusive

No, they aren't.

Griffin is in street clothes, so he has absolutely nothing to do with winning the division. Connect the dots for me.

For them to be mutually exclusive, each one needs to preclude the other. Whether or not Griffin is in street clothes or has shown progress, has absolutely nothing to do with our being in a position to win the division.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:The two topics are mutually exclusive

No, they aren't.

Griffin is in street clothes, so he has absolutely nothing to do with winning the division. Connect the dots for me.

Be careful I got crushed for making that statement...You obviously don't understand the amount of work and influence the 3rd string QB has on winning!!

[quote="Deadskins]For them to be mutually exclusive, each one needs to preclude the other. Whether or not Griffin is in street clothes or has shown progress, has absolutely nothing to do with our being in a position to win the division.[/quote]

So, you want to argue semantics. I notice a trend. Always looking to bait someone into an argument. I'll pass. Thanks.

I only asked which the topic was so I could be sure I was addressing it.

Yeah...... things are getting confusing here. HEROHAMO starts off with RGIII's character getting bashed (which is not true by any means) then transitions into winning the division...... WTF????

Not sure how or what to respond to, but as far as the division, I agree that we have more talent now, but 2015 Cousins isn't close to 2012 RGIII. 2012 RGIII was a grade A stud. We also had the best OC in the game. This season our division is weak, but our upcoming schedule sure isn't. The NYG have an easier schedule moving forward. I would consider them the frontrunners ---- but that is why you play the games...

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Deadskins wrote:For them to be mutually exclusive, each one needs to preclude the other. Whether or not Griffin is in street clothes or has shown progress, has absolutely nothing to do with our being in a position to win the division.

So, you want to argue semantics. I notice a trend. Always looking to bait someone into an argument. I'll pass. Thanks.

I only asked which the topic was so I could be sure I was addressing it.

No, you said the topics were mutually exclusive. I said they were not, then you asked me why not, and I explained. Not trying to bait anyone.

Deadskins wrote:No, you said the topics were mutually exclusive. I said they were not, then you asked me why not, and I explained. Not trying to bait anyone.

I don't want this to become a circular argument so I'll address both. A) We aren't winning the division. We won't have the best record of the four teams in our division so our division record won't mean anything. B) No one is bashing Griffin's character. RGIII is a $6.719 Million cheerleader. That's not character assassination. It's just how things are. C) If he becomes anything more than that the Redskins are stupid for risking guaranteeing him $16 Million next season. If I'm completely wrong about statement A it won't be the first time I've been wrong. Statement B is true and correct. If I become wrong about statement C, Scot McCloughan needs to be looking for work. If RGIII has anything more to do with this franchise this season than simply occupying a roster space and collecting a check we haven't learned a damn thing about the business aspect of football.

StorminMormon86 wrote:I love the positivity, and I'm on board with believing that this division is wide open.

Phony positivity. The gist of the post isn't really about winning the division. Its "if Kirk is so great he should win the division like Griffin did". Maybe I'm wrong but that's how it comes across.

I agree that Dallas and Philly are struggling, but that doesn't necessarily mean we're any better than the 7-9 most of us were predicting before the season started. The fact that Philly is a mess doesn't make us any more likely to beat the Falcons this weekend or the Patriots next month, does it? We still have the same issues and worse in the secondary that we did a month ago. We're still playing without any of our starting TEs.

Its great that the other teams in the division are struggling, but "everything is set up perfectly for us" is a huge stretch. Let's get a grip.

riggofan wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:I love the positivity, and I'm on board with believing that this division is wide open.

Phony positivity. The gist of the post isn't really about winning the division. Its "if Kirk is so great he should win the division like Griffin did". Maybe I'm wrong but that's how it comes across.

I agree that Dallas and Philly are struggling, but that doesn't necessarily mean we're any better than the 7-9 most of us were predicting before the season started. The fact that Philly is a mess doesn't make us any more likely to beat the Falcons this weekend or the Patriots next month, does it? We still have the same issues and worse in the secondary that we did a month ago. We're still playing without any of our starting TEs.

Its great that the other teams in the division are struggling, but "everything is set up perfectly for us" is a huge stretch. Let's get a grip.

+1
I swear this fan base is so bipolar!! (Not directed at anyone specific) We beat the Rams and we are winning the division, we lose to the Giants…same ole Skins!! Beat Philly...we're going to the SB. While there are a lot of positive things to point at…Like I have said all along, it’s about playing meaningful game in December! No way you can tell me we’ve improved if we are mathematically out of the playoffs in November, as has been the case in the past few years. It’s only Oct. talk to me in December!!

DEHog wrote:I swear this fan base is so bipolar!! (Not directed at anyone specific) We beat the Rams and we are winning the division, we lose to the Giants…same ole Skins!! Beat Philly...we're going to the SB. While there are a lot of positive things to point at…Like I have said all along, it’s about playing meaningful game in December! No way you can tell me we’ve improved if we are mathematically out of the playoffs in November, as has been the case in the past few years. It’s only Oct. talk to me in December!!

No kidding. Beating the sad sack Eagles doesn't mean the season is saved. This is a team that's made progress but still has holes in it.

For this year, I will just be happy if the Skins are actually competitive in games. How about we start with consistently competitive before we start plugging division titles?

riggofan wrote:Phony positivity. The gist of the post isn't really about winning the division. Its "if Kirk is so great he should win the division like Griffin did". Maybe I'm wrong but that's how it comes across.

I didn't even see that the first time I read it, but now it makes total sense.

Cousins has to win a division title this year or he's a career backup. Griffin hasn't won a meaningful game in 2 years and he still could help us in the future. Makes sense.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

riggofan wrote:Phony positivity. The gist of the post isn't really about winning the division. Its "if Kirk is so great he should win the division like Griffin did". Maybe I'm wrong but that's how it comes across.

I didn't even see that the first time I read it, but now it makes total sense.

Cousins has to win a division title this year or he's a career backup. Griffin hasn't won a meaningful game in 2 years and he still could help us in the future. Makes sense.

I just ignored it. It's just false equivalence...

StorminMormon86 wrote:

riggofan wrote:Phony positivity. The gist of the post isn't really about winning the division. Its "if Kirk is so great he should win the division like Griffin did". Maybe I'm wrong but that's how it comes across.

I didn't even see that the first time I read it, but now it makes total sense.

Cousins has to win a division title this year or he's a career backup. Griffin hasn't won a meaningful game in 2 years and he still could help us in the future. Makes sense.

I agree completely with DEHog's comments about meaningful games in December. That would be a huge win in my opinion. Yeah, I'll still be disappointed when we lose games along the way, bummed when we don't make the playoffs. But I have a pretty good idea how good this team really is. To not be playing for draft position in early November would be a welcome change at this point.

Judging Cousins on whether or not he gets us to the playoffs his first year as a starter? Come on. We were a 4-12 team last year. Not only that, but we just completely sucked in most of those games. How about we aim to at least be a .500 team this, before we start demanding that these guys win the division?

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:A) We're not winning the division.

B) Griffin may have the personality of Jesus but he sucks as an NFL quarterback.

C) The two topics are mutually exclusive, so which is the topic?

If you don't believe kirk can win the division then why do you want him starting?

Its all about taking advantage of the opportunities in life. This is the biggest opportunity in Kirks life. I believe that he has the talent. He also has the talent surrounding him.
The Redskins our team has an opportunity to win a division thats wide open. Especially with the defending division title winners starting QB and WR out for a good portion of the season.

I actually am quite certain that Kirk can lead the team to a division title within this division how its set up now. He just needs to keep progressing and keep up what hes been doing.

However Gruden is the one I have doubts about. We almost lost that game to the Iggles. It took a fourth quarter drive for us to win it. With the heroics of Kirk and Garcon. We cant win like that every game. Penalties also shot us in the foot which points to the head coach.

StorminMormon86 wrote:I love the positivity, and I'm on board with believing that this division is wide open. But this:

HEROHAMO wrote:Ive grown sick of the bashing of Griffins character when really he has done nothing wrong other then being a young man whos growing. He has not commited any crimes yet gets assasinated by the very fans he once played so hard for.

Nobody is bashing his character. The majority of fans just simply realize that he was fools gold at this point.

Fools gold?
Thats just a matter of opinion. Winning a division title was fools gold for you? Wow how greatful you are as a fan of the Redskins to a QB who actually gave us a playoff run.

Like I said before Kirk runs a west coast offense just fine. I never contended this.


Ive always argued that Robert would do fine in a modified read option similar to what the Titans are running now with Marriota.

But what matters is now. Kirk has the team believing which is most important. However the oppurtunity is there for the taking. The division is up for grabs. This is the year.

HEROHAMO wrote:If you don't believe kirk can win the division then why do you want him starting?

Because we're all grown ups who understand that one guy isn't going to win the division. THE TEAM has to win the division.

riggofan wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:I love the positivity, and I'm on board with believing that this division is wide open.

Phony positivity. The gist of the post isn't really about winning the division. Its "if Kirk is so great he should win the division like Griffin did". Maybe I'm wrong but that's how it comes across.

I agree that Dallas and Philly are struggling, but that doesn't necessarily mean we're any better than the 7-9 most of us were predicting before the season started. The fact that Philly is a mess doesn't make us any more likely to beat the Falcons this weekend or the Patriots next month, does it? We still have the same issues and worse in the secondary that we did a month ago. We're still playing without any of our starting TEs.

Its great that the other teams in the division are struggling, but "everything is set up perfectly for us" is a huge stretch. Let's get a grip.

My statements reflect reality. Take a look at my post. I stated facts.

My positivity is with caution but it reflects how I actually feel about this team.

I belive we can win every week. Its just a matter of our team executing the right game plan.

For example. The Patriots are probably the best team in the league. Do I believe we can win that game. Yes with a huge effort from our team and coaching staff. Thats what it takes to win week in and week out. The difference between us and the Pats is they give that huge effort week in and week out. Its like clockwork for them.

For us to beat the Patriots we need at least 200 yards rushing and 200 yards passing. Wed have to keep the ball out of Tom Bradys hands by winning the time of possession battle. Tall order thats for sure but not impossible.

PulpExposure wrote:

DEHog wrote:I swear this fan base is so bipolar!! (Not directed at anyone specific) We beat the Rams and we are winning the division, we lose to the Giants…same ole Skins!! Beat Philly...we're going to the SB. While there are a lot of positive things to point at…Like I have said all along, it’s about playing meaningful game in December! No way you can tell me we’ve improved if we are mathematically out of the playoffs in November, as has been the case in the past few years. It’s only Oct. talk to me in December!!

No kidding. Beating the sad sack Eagles doesn't mean the season is saved. This is a team that's made progress but still has holes in it.

For this year, I will just be happy if the Skins are actually competitive in games. How about we start with consistently competitive before we start plugging division titles?

There is no reason why we cant win this division.

HEROHAMO wrote:My statements reflect reality. Take a look at my post. I stated facts.

My positivity is with caution but it reflects how I actually feel about this team.

I belive we can win every week. Its just a matter of our team executing the right game plan.

Fair enough, brother. Thought it came across weird because you threw in a bunch of stuff about Griffin and eating crow over Cousins. But yeah, if you're feeling upbeat that we could possibly win the division, more power to you man. I respect your optimism!

Personally its hard for me to see past the weaknesses that still exist on the team. Who knows though? Go out this Sunday and dominate time of possession again. Continue to be efficient on third downs. Don't let Freeman run all over the place like he did last week. There are definitely things we've done well so far that would put us in position to win these tough games.

Btw I see DJAX is practicing today. Good news!!!