The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Call it respect, call it man-love.............or whatever! I thought it was pretty telling of how proud Scotty Mc was of our starting QB.
He wouldn't let go of his hand...................LOL (too funny)

Chant goes up: Cousins, Cousins, Cousins...!!!

Anybody else think Kirk should spend a little more time at the buffet? He's built pretty light for a starting QB.

Anyone have the quote from Scot about him rating cousins "higher" than RG3 during the draft....? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought he said something to that effect.

Hooligan wrote:Anybody else think Kirk should spend a little more time at the buffet? He's built pretty light for a starting QB.

At 6'3" and 202lbs he is a bit on the lean side but the way the line is protecting him it may not matter. He certainly won't be running into any defensive players on designed read option plays.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:He certainly won't be running into any defensive players on designed read option plays.

Kirk runs read option plays, or were you emphasizing the "running into" part?

tribeofjudah wrote:Anyone have the quote from Scot about him rating cousins "higher" than RG3 during the draft....? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought he said something to that effect.

“We interviewed him, did the whole thing,” coach Pete Carroll recalled the other day. “We had him at the combine and all that stuff. He’s a really cool kid, a really great competitor, real bright, hard working, kind of a squeaky-clean guy. He’s got a great history and background, and his mentality was so on it. We were really impressed with him.”

Ian Rapoport
✔
@RapSheet

Random Kirk Cousins nugget: If Russell Wilson was gone in the 3rd round of the 2012 draft, #Seahawks would’ve taken Cousins.
12:29 PM - 21 Sep 2014

And here is a Seahawks blog with one hell of an in-depth breakdown of Cousins before the draft:

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/kirk-cousi ... uarterback

Apparently Seattle's scouting department had nothing but positives to say about Kirk.

Deadskins wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:He certainly won't be running into any defensive players on designed read option plays.

Kirk runs read option plays, or were you emphasizing the "running into" part?

He does? I haven't seen one play yet where Cousins made one read and then ran by design. In fact, the only run I recall Cousins making was on a broken play where receiver coverage was good.

I can appreciate SM being excited about Cousins because Kirk has performed thus far and is validating SM & JG's decision to go with him over Griffin. Ashburn has got to be a very happy place this week. They looked better than expected against Miami than cleaned up their mistakes and soundly beat St. Louis.

Scott the new red lobster.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:He certainly won't be running into any defensive players on designed read option plays.

Kirk runs read option plays, or were you emphasizing the "running into" part?

He does? I haven't seen one play yet where Cousins made one read and then ran by design. In fact, the only run I recall Cousins making was on a broken play where receiver coverage was good.

He did it in the pre-season game Vs. the Browns. I commented on it here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40882&p=652654&hilit=+read+option#p652654

I can appreciate SM being excited about Cousins because Kirk has performed thus far and is validating SM & JG's decision to go with him over Griffin. Ashburn has got to be a very happy place this week. They looked better than expected against Miami than cleaned up their mistakes and soundly beat St. Louis.

OMG - you guys are almost making me think about joining the "kissing cousins" club ... almost

Deadskins wrote:Kirk runs read option plays, or were you emphasizing the "running into" part?

He does? I haven't seen one play yet where Cousins made one read and then ran by design. In fact, the only run I recall Cousins making was on a broken play where receiver coverage was good.[/quote]
He did it in the pre-season game Vs. the Browns. I commented on it here:

http://thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php? ... on#p652654

Fair enough. But nothing tells me he'll be running that play by design in the regular season. In two regular season games we haven't seen it once.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:Anyone have the quote from Scot about him rating cousins "higher" than RG3 during the draft....? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought he said something to that effect.

“We interviewed him, did the whole thing,” coach Pete Carroll recalled the other day. “We had him at the combine and all that stuff. He’s a really cool kid, a really great competitor, real bright, hard working, kind of a squeaky-clean guy. He’s got a great history and background, and his mentality was so on it. We were really impressed with him.”

Ian Rapoport
✔
@RapSheet

Random Kirk Cousins nugget: If Russell Wilson was gone in the 3rd round of the 2012 draft, #Seahawks would’ve taken Cousins.
12:29 PM - 21 Sep 2014

And here is a Seahawks blog with one hell of an in-depth breakdown of Cousins before the draft:

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/kirk-cousi ... uarterback

Apparently Seattle's scouting department had nothing but positives to say about Kirk.

info. Thanks for posting it.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Kirk runs read option plays, or were you emphasizing the "running into" part?

He does? I haven't seen one play yet where Cousins made one read and then ran by design. In fact, the only run I recall Cousins making was on a broken play where receiver coverage was good.

Deadskins wrote:He did it in the pre-season game Vs. the Browns. I commented on it here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40882&p=652654&hilit=+read+option#p652654

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:Fair enough. But nothing tells me he'll be running that play by design in the regular season. In two regular season games we haven't seen it once.

He will. The season is young. He ran it last year a few times when he was the starter. I think most NFL teams have added read option plays to their playbook. It's just a matter of how often it's used, and what the game situation is.

This is encouraging. Apparently it isn't just Gruden who wants Cousins to be the QB.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:He certainly won't be running into any defensive players on designed read option plays.

Kirk runs read option plays, or were you emphasizing the "running into" part?

He does? I haven't seen one play yet where Cousins made one read and then ran by design. In fact, the only run I recall Cousins making was on a broken play where receiver coverage was good.

He did in his 1st action back in 2012.

yupchagee wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:He did in his 1st action back in 2012.

True, but that was under a different head coach. The conclusion I'm drawing here is that Jay Gruden actually dislikes the read option. It seems like he was willing to run it in preseason just to demonstrate its relative ineffectiveness with both RGIII and Kirk but that it was always his plan to move away from it to a traditional West Coast Offense. Was that transition because he knew RGIII couldn't run a read option by scheme and be successful, or was it because he knew Kirk could run a WCO by scheme and be successful? The way they dropped anchor on RGIII and hoisted sails on Kirk says this was something Gruden had planned a lot longer than three weeks into preseason. He must have been thinking about how to make these changes since the last snap of last season. In any case, thus far he's had a modicum of success, and so long as that trend continues no one at Redskins Park will question his decision-making processes, and certainly no win-starved fans will be questioning it once RGIII is no longer on the roster.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

yupchagee wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:He did in his 1st action back in 2012.

True, but that was under a different head coach. The conclusion I'm drawing here is that Jay Gruden actually dislikes the read option. It seems like he was willing to run it in preseason just to demonstrate its relative ineffectiveness with both RGIII and Kirk but that it was always his plan to move away from it to a traditional West Coast Offense.

Then explain why he had Kirk run the read option several times last season, when RGIII was on the sidelines with a broken ankle. Like I said, pretty much all NFL team have the read option in their playbook, just like they have wildcat plays. Heck, they probably still have run and shoot plays too. It's all about when and how often you choose to pull it out.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:The conclusion I'm drawing here is that Jay Gruden actually dislikes the read option.

I understand why you're coming to that conclusion, but I'm not sure its true. I distinctly remember watching the Bengals v. Chargers game in 2013 right before Gruden came to Washington and being surprised to see Andy Dalton on what looked like run first plays. Looking at the stats from that game, he ran 5 times for 26 yards including a 12 yard scramble. Its been a while, but I swear it looked similar to some plays with Cousins this preseason.

Btw I missed this link you guys posted:
http://seahawksdraftblog.com/kirk-cousi ... uarterback

That's really interesting stuff - thanks! Well worth the read. I'm pretty impressed by how spot on some of this evaluation is, especially these comments from MSU:

MSU runs a pro-style offense (and likes to run) with plenty of play action and snaps under center for Cousins, but this year opened it up a lot more. He does best on timing routes and makes very quick decisions. He will struggle, though, when protection breaks down quickly and nothing is open. That is when he struggles with mechanics and will throw off his back foot.

This part is a little more optimistic:

Never been the biggest, fastest, strongest at any point in his career, but still made the most of everything he can do. He commands the offense well and is a good field general. I’ve heard his teammates say when he speaks in the huddle there is just a great level of certainty and confidence and trust. As for his skill set, nothing jumps out at you really. But he does just about everything well. His arm strength is really good (not elite, but above average), he can thread the needle well and does so with confidence (especially this season). He has decent mobility, but does not often pull the ball down and run. He has nice straight-line speed, isn’t going to cut and stiff arm or anything to break for huge yardage. I can recall a couple of 20-yard runs in his career.

Deadskins wrote:Then explain why he had Kirk run the read option several times last season, when RGIII was on the sidelines with a broken ankle. Like I said, pretty much all NFL team have the read option in their playbook, just like they have wildcat plays. Heck, they probably still have run and shoot plays too. It's all about when and how often you choose to pull it out.

That's just it. I can't explain it. There's nothing logical about it. Maybe he just thought to himself something along the lines of we're awful and it can't hurt to try it or it's already in the playbook so why not?

I'm not sure New England or Pittsburgh have the read option in their playbooks. I think the better your quarterback is the less you have to rely on gadget plays.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Then explain why he had Kirk run the read option several times last season, when RGIII was on the sidelines with a broken ankle. Like I said, pretty much all NFL team have the read option in their playbook, just like they have wildcat plays. Heck, they probably still have run and shoot plays too. It's all about when and how often you choose to pull it out.

That's just it. I can't explain it. There's nothing logical about it. Maybe he just thought to himself something along the lines of we're awful and it can't hurt to try it or it's already in the playbook so why not?

I'm not sure New England or Pittsburgh have the read option in their playbooks. I think the better your quarterback is the less you have to rely on gadget plays.

Even for "elite" quarterbacks, the RO can be helpful... A little success with RO can put the breaks on a pass rush.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Then explain why he had Kirk run the read option several times last season, when RGIII was on the sidelines with a broken ankle. Like I said, pretty much all NFL team have the read option in their playbook, just like they have wildcat plays. Heck, they probably still have run and shoot plays too. It's all about when and how often you choose to pull it out.

That's just it. I can't explain it. There's nothing logical about it. Maybe he just thought to himself something along the lines of we're awful and it can't hurt to try it or it's already in the playbook so why not?

I'm not sure New England or Pittsburgh have the read option in their playbooks. I think the better your quarterback is the less you have to rely on gadget plays.

Peyton Manning won't be running any read option plays, but I'd bet Denver still has them in their playbook.

Countertrey wrote:Even for "elite" quarterbacks, the RO can be helpful... A little success with RO can put the breaks on a pass rush.

A quarterback who can take advantage of a running lane is always going to be a good thing but one who runs by design is never going to be a good thing unless the quarterbacks are as big as the linemen. There are some similarities in most running quarterbacks that aren't conducive to winning games in the playoffs or staying healthy. Steve Young and John Elway had success running because they were quarterbacks who could run, not runners playing quarterback. The only thing keeping Russell Wilson healthy is his intelligence. He's smart enough to protect himself most of the time. But he's going to take some shots you don't want a quarterback taking and, like RGIII after 2012, NFL defenses seem to have adjusted for him. I just don't see it as being a viable scheme to run the read option by design. That doesn't mean teams should never run it but I wouldn't make a habit of it with Kirk Cousins. We need him healthy for the full season to know if he's worth keeping.

Deadskins wrote:Peyton Manning won't be running any read option plays, but I'd bet Denver still has them in their playbook.

At Peyton's age he'll only be running for the bathroom and his Geritol. We know Denver has those plays in their playbook. We saw Tim Tebow run them. That doesn't mean it was good idea. It worked until defenses adjusted, then it put Tebow out of a job. It was all he could do. He couldn't actually read defenses or make accurate passes. Sounds familiar.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Countertrey wrote:Even for "elite" quarterbacks, the RO can be helpful... A little success with RO can put the breaks on a pass rush.

A quarterback who can take advantage of a running lane is always going to be a good thing but one who runs by design is never going to be a good thing unless the quarterbacks are as big as the linemen. There are some similarities in most running quarterbacks that aren't conducive to winning games in the playoffs or staying healthy. Steve Young and John Elway had success running because they were quarterbacks who could run, not runners playing quarterback. The only thing keeping Russell Wilson healthy is his intelligence. He's smart enough to protect himself most of the time. But he's going to take some shots you don't want a quarterback taking and, like RGIII after 2012, NFL defenses seem to have adjusted for him. I just don't see it as being a viable scheme to run the read option by design. That doesn't mean teams should never run it but I wouldn't make a habit of it with Kirk Cousins. We need him healthy for the full season to know if he's worth keeping.

Typically, QBs running the read option are making a beeline for the sideline. RGIII would, stupidly, try to extend the play longer than he should have many times and take unnecessary hits.