The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Some say Gruden others say it must be Snyder who dictates to his employees. Who named Griffin the starter?

I think Gruden made the decision that Griffin would be the day 1 starter but he also made it clear that all positions were subject to change depending on how players performed in practice and on the field

Griffin has not helped himself but we have yet to see if the coaches think that Cousins or McCoy will be able to take it away from him

it would be a big mistake if Snyder gets involved with who plays QB here this season

You and I agree on one thing it is bad when Snyder meddles but I think you are try to wish away obvious Snyder meddling regarding Griffin. I don't know if McCoy or Cousins could become a quality starter for Gruden but I am certain Gruden would love to be free to find out.

not entirely true - this franchise needs Snyder to not interfere with anything to do with what goes on the field and to stay away from the players and coaches - who plays QB here will hopefully be decided by the coaches based on who they think will best manage the offense

I really don't think it matters much this season as there are still a lot of other issues to resolve

I don't know if Griffin can become a good NFL QB and from what we've seen I have my doubts

However, I'm pretty sure that neither Cousins or McCoy will become good NFL starting QBs

I still think Gruden and McCloughan are the two men making the call. I think they are giving RGIII every chance to succeed, but that they also aren't that far away at this point from pulling him from the starting lineup for good. Fans are almost always quicker to call for these changes than the pros are to make them, which I think is evidence for believing that Snyder is not the one really behind this.

I consider myself to be a fairly conservative fan in this sense — i.e., I'm usually happier to choose the patient move than most fans are — but at this point even I'm thinking that RGIII is probably done. I'm now expecting the coaches to come to a similar conclusion before long.

I think there was pressure when Gruden announced in March(?) the job was Griffins' to loose and he has given him that oppertunity. Gruden knows his job is on the line and he won't put it in Griffins' hands, he'll go to Snyder and say its time to move on, which shall we play? The decision makers will be there, the case made for Cousins & McCoy and thats what they'll go with. That is a possible path for another terrible season and Gruden retaining his job, for sure if he sticks with Griffin and has the same wins/loses he will loose his job. The loosing season is on him.
Thats what I see.

I believe that it is Snyder/Bruce's desire to give Griffin one more chance. It was Scot and Jay's decision to honor that desire. I believe that Scot could have vetoed the decision but saw some promise.

I won't lose sleep if they cut ties with Griff right NOW....!!!

I have a gut feeling that we'll be just fine with the other 2 QBs on the roster.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I believe that it is Snyder/Bruce's desire to give Griffin one more chance. It was Scot and Jay's decision to honor that desire. I believe that Scot could have vetoed the decision but saw some promise.

I agree; seems most likely.

All those #10 jerseys... lol.

hanburgerheel wrote:All those #10 jerseys... lol.

I didn't get one. Don't buy the hype. Now, Kerrigan..............I would buy that jersey.

I think it’s Gruden with input from Snyder, and in this case I’m going to back Snyder…here’s why. You know during the interview process with Gruden that item number one ( two and three for that matter) was coaching RGIII! I’m quite sure Jay sold them on the fact that he could coach him. It became quite clear in camp last year that Gruden wasn’t happy with RG, hence the quote “we’re going to have to win a lot of 13-10 games”. I think Gruden wanted to go with a different QB (enter McCoy) but was politely reminded that he was here to coach RGII!! Who could blame the owner in this case, he brings in a coach to coach his high draft pick and that coach wants to make a change before he even coaches the kid in one regular season game?? IMO Gruden and RG are tied at the hip and Gruden knows that!

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I believe that it is Snyder/Bruce's desire to give Griffin one more chance. It was Scot and Jay's decision to honor that desire. I believe that Scot could have vetoed the decision but saw some promise.

Agree with this. I believe that Scot has significant input on who starts. Scot also understands that Danny gave him a chance at GM when many other franchises wouldn't and he'll respect his wish to see if RGIII can come back to what he was 3 years ago -- at least until he is 100% confident RGIII can't make it back.

The only issue is that Danny will never understand what a cancer he is to the organization. It is no surprise that expectations aren't very high this year --- So, I wouldn't be surprised if, after we start losing and Scot/Jay do something he doesn't like, he starts making more office calls for "personnel discussions"......

I just think people are looking at this like the typical Snyder meddling. My take is that Snyder feels he hired Gruden and maybe even McCloughan to come here and make it work with RGIII, the QB that he has invested in. Its probably not acceptable to him for these guys to come in and tell him immediately they can't do anything with Griffin.

riggofan wrote:I just think people are looking at this like the typical Snyder meddling. My take is that Snyder feels he hired Gruden and maybe even McCloughan to come here and make it work with RGIII, the QB that he has invested in. Its probably not acceptable to him for these guys to come in and tell him immediately they can't do anything with Griffin.

And I think that has been a big part of the problem from the day Danny became owner. If you are the CEO and conclude something doesn't work and needs to be fixed --- what do you do when the company owner says you can't fix the problem but have to continue working with it? Are companies like that typically successful after those types of assessments?????? Not typically. Then when things go wrong, the owner blames the CEO (when in reality the owner's decision was the root of the failure)..... that is why literally no highly desirable candidate wanted to coach or be the GM of the skins.....

GOOD owners let their execs do their thing. That ones that micro-manage tend to be less successful.

markshark84 wrote:

riggofan wrote:I just think people are looking at this like the typical Snyder meddling. My take is that Snyder feels he hired Gruden and maybe even McCloughan to come here and make it work with RGIII, the QB that he has invested in. Its probably not acceptable to him for these guys to come in and tell him immediately they can't do anything with Griffin.

And I think that has been a big part of the problem from the day Danny became owner. If you are the CEO and conclude something doesn't work and needs to be fixed --- what do you do when the company owner says you can't fix the problem but have to continue working with it? Are companies like that typically successful after those types of assessments?????? Not typically. Then when things go wrong, the owner blames the CEO..... that is why literally no highly desirable candidate wanted to coach or be the GM of the skins.....

GOOD owners let their execs do their thing. That ones that micro-manage tend to be less successful.

I wrote about this in another thread man, but I kind of disagree with what you're saying. If you're the CEO of a company and you've invested heavily in something, don't you have an obligation to push your employees to make it work? I used a software example at my company. If I tell my CEO to purchase some new software for $500k and then six months later I tell him, no this sucks we need to scrap it and do something else, I would expect him to push me on it. That's not micromanagment by any stretch.

Even though I don't like it, I just don't think Snyder is being completely crazy here. We just gave up a bunch of draft picks to take Griffin with the second pick in the draft. The problem isn't CEO micromanagement. Its that he apparently got a bad assessment in the first place.

Not saying I agree with Snyder, but I can understand why this particular decision wasn't left to the Jay Gruden alone.

riggofan wrote:
I wrote about this in another thread man, but I kind of disagree with what you're saying. If you're the CEO of a company and you've invested heavily in something, don't you have an obligation to push your employees to make it work? I used a software example at my company. If I tell my CEO to purchase some new software for $500k and then six months later I tell him, no this sucks we need to scrap it and do something else, I would expect him to push me on it. That's not micromanagment by any stretch.

Even though I don't like it, I just don't think Snyder is being completely crazy here. We just gave up a bunch of draft picks to take Griffin with the second pick in the draft. The problem isn't CEO micromanagement. Its that he apparently got a bad assessment in the first place.

You sort of answer your own question here. If you realize you have a bad product, why would you push it, knowing the likelihood of losing MORE money is the result?????

As far as your analogy, I'd hope you would do some research into the software first. If after you researched it and then purchased it and then said it was bad --- if I were the CEO, you'd be fired, I'd get a second opinion, and if that opinion matched yours, I'd move on. No need in losing more $$$. Here, RGIII was evaluated via the draft. The only problem is that DANNY did the evaluation, people said it wouldn't work so DANNY fired them, DANNY didn't get a second opinion, instead he demanded that the new hire continue with the process regardless of their opinion as to its effectiveness. Not a good process.

As far as the "investment" --- it is similar to Texas hold em --- just because a huge portion of your stack is in the pot doesn't mean you have to go all in on the river. If you think your hand is going to lose keep what you have and fold. In my experience, the "easy money" players are the ones that consider what they did on pre-flop, flop and/or turn when betting on the river.....

I don't see it as Snyder meddling - this is a concerted effort on everyone's part here to determine what is best for this franchise ...
I'd agree though that Snyder/Allen are very supportive of Griffin - also, it's not like Cousins or McCoy have shown that they are more likely to become really good NFL QBs - despite the evidence, they're obviously giving him a lot of time & effort to show that he can contribute here

PLUS - I do not think it will make much of a difference who plays QB here this season

markshark84 wrote:You sort of answer your own question here. If you realize you have a bad product, why would you push it, knowing the likelihood of losing MORE money is the result?????

As far as your analogy, I'd hope you would do some research into the software first. If after you researched it and then purchased it and then said it was bad --- if I were the CEO, you'd be fired, I'd get a second opinion, and if that opinion matched yours, I'd move on. No need in losing more $$$. Here, RGIII was evaluated via the draft. The only problem is that DANNY did the evaluation, people said it wouldn't work so DANNY fired them, DANNY didn't get a second opinion, instead he demanded that the new hire continue with the process regardless of their opinion as to its effectiveness. Not a good process.

Well that's not really what happened at all. Danny did the evalutation?? I have never once heard that story.

Most accounts have been that the Shanahans told him RGIII was worth the pick and they were on board with it. Their big caveat was that he was not NFL ready and would take some time to develop. I'm repeating what I heard from the Redskins 980 guys last week on the radio and have seen that reported.

Anyway man, like I said, I don't really agree with Snyder sticking it out at this point, but I can sort of understand why.

I'm pretty certain that the coaching staff will make the final determination on who plays QB but .. it seems obvious that Griffin is still #1

I'm a Griffin fan and am glad that he's getting a much bigger opportunity to become the starter here than the other 2 QBs

I also can understand Dan Snyder & Bruce Allen possibly making the coaches ensure that Griffin is or is not capable of becoming a good NFL QB

I really do hope that this franchise is finally under the guidance of guys that know what they're doing

The mess we're in is going to take a while to fix but with the right choices we could see significant changes on the field in a year or so

for a start, I'm looking for players here to show a big change in attitude this season

SJ,

I stand corrected I thought you were the only one on the board who believed the coaches want to start Griffin, at least 4 others see it like you do.

OS - you're slightly mistaken - IMO, the coaches are kind of between the rock and a hard place with pressure from the FO to give Griffin every opportunity to show that he's an NFL QB and also because the other guys are not looking all that great either

who plays QB here this season is not that big a deal - Cousins and McCoy are just capable back ups at this level

Griffin may or may not make it and he certainly hasn't showed much so far but IMO, these guys still feel he's got more upside than the other 2

the only bad thing about continuing to use Griffin when he's not shown much improvement is how his play affects the other players chances

I doubt this goes much farther without a lot of improvement in the not too distant future

SkinsJock wrote:OS - you're slightly mistaken - IMO, the coaches are kind of between the rock and a hard place with pressure from the FO to give Griffin every opportunity to show that he's an NFL QB and also because the other guys are not looking all that great either

You keep throwing that statement out there that "the other guys are not looking all that great either" lately. Why are you saying that? Kirk and Colt both played fine in the two preseason games. You're right on the first part of your statement.

Maybe I'm being a little unfair - I totally agree that Cousins and McCoy have looked a lot better than Griffin but I think the coaches have (maybe unfairly) bad feelings about the capabilities of Cousins and McCoy

admittedly, Griffin is getting a lot more time and effort from the coaches - if he does not clearly show a lot of improvement I hope they don't risk his getting injured just to prove that he cannot play at a level they need

again - whoever is the QB here this season is not making a huge difference in wins and losses

Cousins will not be the starting QB here next season - he's not at that level - he's just a good back-up QB

If Griffin shows improvement the decision is will he be worth the amount of money we're going to have to pay

it certainly does not look like that to me at this time

this quote was taken from an article that was looking into HCs trying to evaluate what they've got during the pre season ...

As for Gruden, short of yanking his quarterback after a few series due to contact, I'm not sure what else he is supposed to do. They have to make a determination on Griffin, they are actually trying to protect him more in the pocket and keep him out of harm, and there is no substitute for facing a live rush. Sure, stud left tackle Trent Williams was out, but this was otherwise pretty much the group they'll have, and with a new general manager in town making assessments, these snaps are at a premium.

This is a four-win team that, let's face it, is going to be bad this season no matter which of their quarterbacks is under center. It's about figuring out the future and deciding whether that fifth-year option on Griffin for 2016 is really worth it. He has to be on the field to see how he plays. And would it have been that much different if Kirk Cousins was getting the snot knocked out of him? The Redskins don't exactly have a bona fide top guy.

The grief for Gruden reminds me of the lunatic ranting against Rex Ryan in New York a while back for exposing Sanchez -- soon-to-be-career-backup -- to injuries behind the second-string offensive line on a team destined to win four games. That Jets team had issues all over the roster, and Sanchez was in a similar position to RG3: He needed to prove he could get somewhere close to the flashes he made very early in his career.