The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

What's up guys, first time post. I'm beyond frustrated with how gruden uses rg3. He's not a pro pocket passer, never will be. He's a read option play action off of it quarterback. Why would you waste that talent? He can't be undercenter, he has to have his eyes on the defense. By using his threat to run it gives us one less guy to block and slows down the pass rush!!!! Why can't coach see this??? The Eagles do it with success with less talented quarterbacks! It's frustrating!!!!! It's either keep gruden or rg3 but they aren't good for each other.

I agree, RG3 is a read option QB. IMO, the reason not to run this playbook is because RG3 is not physically able to take the punishment.

The problem with that theory is he's taking a punishment it grudens offense. It's not for him. He's gotta learn to slide.... He's proven he can be effective. Build off what he's good at

Griffin is the problem not Gruden's WCO. If Griffin can't handle he doesn't belong on the roster. The Skins need to move on with McCoy or Cousins who do know how run an NFL offense and see if the can step up and win a couple more games this season with the new players SM. Time for RGNot to clean his locker.

Jdesan076 wrote:What's up guys, first time post. I'm beyond frustrated with how gruden uses rg3. He's not a pro pocket passer, never will be. He's a read option play action off of it quarterback. Why would you waste that talent? He can't be undercenter, he has to have his eyes on the defense. By using his threat to run it gives us one less guy to block and slows down the pass rush!!!! Why can't coach see this??? The Eagles do it with success with less talented quarterbacks! It's frustrating!!!!! It's either keep gruden or rg3 but they aren't good for each other.

welcome to the site ...

we don't know for sure about Griffin's progress but I do believe that Scot's plan for this franchise is basically to have a very strong run game and a defense that is strong against the run and better able to pressure the QB than we have been recently

the coaches know better than we do about the QBs and I'm sure they're doing the best with what they have

this franchise needs a capable starting QB and right now it does not look like the guy they were hoping would be better will make the grade

Cousins and McCoy are just capable QBs - one, or both, may be better than Griffin but that does not look like such a high bar at this time

there is no quick fix for this franchise - repairing the damage done by bad management will take time and we do not need gimmicks

a pocket passer he is NOT .... he is what he is ... mobile QB got to cater to his strengths .... but in saying this without out a OLINE that can block he will not succeed ....

Oh lord, please make it stop.

riggofan wrote:Oh lord, please make it stop.

I think it will, and soon - I am very hopeful that the guys now in charge, know what they are doing & will put the best QB out there day 1

I think NFL teams have realized a PURE read-option will not work in the NFL. And no, SEA is not a PURE read option. Not at all -- they use it, but they don't run it the majority of the time; they implement a WCO with some read-option (which has dwindled each successive year).

Everyone is 100% correct in that RGIII is only a read-option QB. It doesn't appear RGIII has the ability to run the Gruden-WCO, make quick reads, move within the pocket, stay healthy, make quick or good decisions under pressure, or gain confidence. There can be a number of reasons for this, but at the end of the day it is about production. If another QB is more productive -- for whatever reason that may be, then that is the direction we need to go. This is now his 4th year in the league. Wilson and Luck are now considered vets and captains/sole leaders of their respective teams. This would be RGIII's "senior" season in the NFL (as a freshman starter).

That being said, I agree we need to give RGIII an honest last chance (i.e., 5 games) and if he increases his production and shows consistent improvement each game, stay with him. But if he plays similarly to his past 2 seasons or doesn't show game on top of game improvement, we have to move on --- PERMANENTLY.

Our STARTING offense has one of the best WR and RB cores in the NFL. As long as Scherff can get up to speed and Moses is truly improved, our OL is solid. There comes a time when a player needs to either produce or he's gone --- no excuses, no complaining, no pointing fingers. IMHO, these next 5 games are it.

markshark84 wrote:I think NFL teams have realized a PURE read-option will not work in the NFL. And no, SEA is not a PURE read option. Not at all -- they use it, but they don't run it the majority of the time; they implement a WCO with some read-option (which has dwindled each successive year).

Everyone is 100% correct in that RGIII is only a read-option QB. It doesn't appear RGIII has the ability to run the Gruden-WCO, make quick reads, move within the pocket, stay healthy, make quick or good decisions under pressure, or gain confidence. There can be a number of reasons for this, but at the end of the day it is about production. If another QB is more productive -- for whatever reason that may be, then that is the direction we need to go. This is now his 4th year in the league. Wilson and Luck are now considered vets and captains/sole leaders of their respective teams. This would be RGIII's "senior" season in the NFL (as a freshman starter).

That being said, I agree we need to give RGIII an honest last chance (i.e., 5 games) and if he increases his production and shows consistent improvement each game, stay with him. But if he plays similarly to his past 2 seasons or doesn't show game on top of game improvement, we have to move on --- PERMANENTLY.

Our STARTING offense has one of the best WR and RB cores in the NFL. As long as Scherff can get up to speed and Moses is truly improved, our OL is solid. There comes a time when a player needs to either produce or he's gone --- no excuses, no complaining, no pointing fingers. IMHO, these next 5 games are it.

well said sir

If Robert is hapless again against Baltimore what is the point of giving him 5 regular season games to try to show he can improve into something less than McCoy or Cousins in a WCO? Where is the entertainment in that? We've seen this kind of Griffin before the team stufff the last couple of years and who really wants to settle for that with a new season?

The other two guys may not be quality starters but they are both MUCH better in the WCO than Griffin and to my eyes show much more upside than Robert Griffin after his 36 starts. I don't know McCoy's history but I know Cousins has had only 9 NFL starts and looks great for long stretches maybe if they told Kirk you get 16 starts and we need you to cut the picks he could, I don't know no one knows unless they give him the chance. And spare me the Rex Grossman nonsense, Grossman had 10 or 12 years to clean up his picks Cousins has only 9 starts spread over 3 seasons. The team never made a commitment to him and this is the last chance they'll get. Some other team is going to offer him a chance to compete and he'll be gone. Four years of sitting behind a hapless, full of himself Robert Griffin & his fan boy owner you better believe Cousins more than ready to leave the madhouse in Ashburn.

I don't think there's a time limit or a game limit - Gruden understands that he needs to give Griffin as much time as needed to verify whether this kid can play QB at a high level

there's no real chance of the playoffs this season and the guys above Gruden want to give Griffin as much time as possible

it does not look promising at all but if it were very obvious that there's no chance he can learn to operate the offense, he will be gone

they could be up for a sizable chunk of change if he gets injured but it looks like it's more important to Snyder & Allen to give this kid more time to prove they know more than anyone else ...

this is a dysfunctional way to run a franchise

SkinsJock wrote:there's no real chance of the playoffs this season and the guys above Gruden want to give Griffin as much time as possible

Not directing this against you specifically, SJ, but I HATE this position. We haven't played a game yet this season. I expect this team to go out and do everything possible to make the playoffs this season or any other season. I'm not planning to tune in every Sunday to watch RGIII exhibition games.

This is what bothers me the most about what's going on with RGIII right now. It just feels like we're throwing away the season before we've even started. Play the QB who gives the team the best chance to win.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:there's no real chance of the playoffs this season and the guys above Gruden want to give Griffin as much time as possible

Not directing this against you specifically, SJ, but I HATE this position. We haven't played a game yet this season. I expect this team to go out and do everything possible to make the playoffs this season or any other season. I'm not planning to tune in every Sunday to watch RGIII exhibition games.

This is what bothers me the most about what's going on with RGIII right now. It just feels like we're throwing away the season before we've even started. Play the QB who gives the team the best chance to win.

I agree with you Riggo! My head tells me modest improvement is the best we can hope for this year, maybe 5 or 6 wins, but my heart wants to hope so the suggestion of tossing another season away before it has even started on remedial QB training for Griffin is unacceptable.

riggofan wrote:Not directing this against you specifically, SJ, but I HATE this position. We haven't played a game yet this season. I expect this team to go out and do everything possible to make the playoffs this season or any other season. I'm not planning to tune in every Sunday to watch RGIII exhibition games.

This is what bothers me the most about what's going on with RGIII right now. It just feels like we're throwing away the season before we've even started. Play the QB who gives the team the best chance to win.

+1 - I think that we'll see improvement but I just don't see that we've improved a lot with the O line and the defensive secondary

we're going to be better but we're a long way from being a much improved franchise

the QB issue is a pain because we're not giving all the other guys on offense a fair chance to make the roster by playing the guy that is best suited to run the offense - if Griffin needs time, fine ... let him earn his way back into the lineup - he cannot be clearly ahead of the other 2

markshark84 wrote:. As long as Scherff can get up to speed and Moses is truly improved, our OL is solid. .

These are huge question marks therefore our OL is far from solid which remains problem number one. I like the idea of playing to Robert's strengths while applying common sense (which imo the Shanyhans lacked, and which Gruden is unwilling to do) Gruden whom I thought was the great qb whisperer coming in seems lost and unwilling to help Robert succeed. Its sort of a mess. Nevertheless......Hail.

One thing for SURE, there has been enough said about the QBs until next year. Time to give it up and go with the flow.

OldSchool wrote:If Robert is hapless again against Baltimore what is the point of giving him 5 regular season games to try to show he can improve into something less than McCoy or Cousins in a WCO?

I honestly ask that question to myself quite often. My main rationale is that it is preseason, although I am 99% sure he will fail miserably this year -- but I think we need closure on this failed experience. That being said, would I take the same chance in giving RGIII 5 games if my job was on the line --- absolutely not.

OldSchool wrote: The other two guys may not be quality starters but they are both MUCH better in the WCO than Griffin and to my eyes show much more upside than Robert Griffin after his 36 starts. I don't know McCoy's history but I know Cousins has had only 9 NFL starts and looks great for long stretches maybe if they told Kirk you get 16 starts and we need you to cut the picks he could, I don't know no one knows unless they give him the chance. And spare me the Rex Grossman nonsense, Grossman had 10 or 12 years to clean up his picks Cousins has only 9 starts spread over 3 seasons. The team never made a commitment to him and this is the last chance they'll get. Some other team is going to offer him a chance to compete and he'll be gone. Four years of sitting behind a hapless, full of himself Robert Griffin & his fan boy owner you better believe Cousins more than ready to leave the madhouse in Ashburn.

Personally, I think Cousins can be a VERY good NFL QB. The mistakes (and his stats) Cousins has made are errily similar to those of Peyton Manning early in his career. In particular, he forced passes he shouldn't of because he had no time in the pocket. If I were the coach and my job was on the line, he'd be my QB1 right now. When I watch Cousins, I see a lot of 1998 Peyton; I really do.

Ya know... I can name a dozen starting and who have had poor preseasons this far as well. But in DC it's a *sh$t* when we don't play like it's the sb

markshark84 wrote:Personally, I think Cousins can be a VERY good NFL QB. The mistakes (and his stats) Cousins has made are errily similar to those of Peyton Manning early in his career. In particular, he forced passes he shouldn't of because he had no time in the pocket. If I were the coach and my job was on the line, he'd be my QB right now. When I watch Cousins, I see a lot of 1998 Peyton, I really do.

are you freaking kidding me - Cousins might be a good NFL QB but he's nowhere near the quality QB you're suggesting he is ...

are you family or something? If Cousins were possibly anywhere near as good as you think, he would be a starting NFL QB .. he's NOT that




I have a drink occasionally myself .. it's OK

OldSchool wrote:If Robert is hapless again against Baltimore what is the point of giving him 5 regular season games to try to show he can improve into something less than McCoy or Cousins in a WCO?

Because in real games, every starter who is even remotely healthy plays, the coaches actually gameplan for the opponent, and we don't run plays just to see what works or to give someone work on something they're not up to speed on.

Deadskins wrote:

OldSchool wrote:If Robert is hapless again against Baltimore what is the point of giving him 5 regular season games to try to show he can improve into something less than McCoy or Cousins in a WCO?

Because in real games, every starter who is even remotely healthy plays, the coaches actually gameplan for the opponent, and we don't run plays just to see what works or to give someone work on something they're not up to speed on.

BINGO - it's not complicated ...

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Ya know... I can name a dozen starting and who have had poor preseasons this far as well. But in DC it's a *sh$t* when we don't play like it's the sb

That's ridiculous exaggeration. I'm sure its true that fans in the DMV overreact a lot when it comes to the Redskins, but come on man. If Griffin looks in this preseason like he did in LAST preseason, what are fans supposed to be thinking?

Here's preseason QB stats so far:
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... SER_RATING

Sorted by passer rating. You gotta go to page 2 to find RGIII. At #84. Behind Tim Tebow.

SkinsJock wrote:

markshark84 wrote:Personally, I think Cousins can be a VERY good NFL QB. The mistakes (and his stats) Cousins has made are errily similar to those of Peyton Manning early in his career. In particular, he forced passes he shouldn't of because he had no time in the pocket. If I were the coach and my job was on the line, he'd be my QB right now. When I watch Cousins, I see a lot of 1998 Peyton, I really do.

are you freaking kidding me - Cousins might be a good NFL QB but he's nowhere near the quality QB you're suggesting he is ...

are you family or something? If Cousins were possibly anywhere near as good as you think, he would be a starting NFL QB .. he's NOT that

I have a drink occasionally myself .. it's OK

And what am I suggesting? Do you actually think I'm suggesting that Cousins is the next Peyton.....

I was referring to the types of mistakes and play Cousins has made on the field and that those mistakes were similar to the ones Peyton made early in their career --- in addition to both players having a poor OL at the time. Did you look up the stats even? I doubt you watched Peyton closely in 1998, but I did (although I was young) ---- similarly to what Peyton was doing, Cousins forced throws while doing everything he could to move the ball downfield in a vertical passing enviornment while suferring from poor OL play. Although Peyton had 28 INTs in 1998, all the makings were clear; something that I don't necessarily/clearly see in Cousins --- but Peyton is one of the best 10 QBs ever to play; Cousins will never be that...... but the REAL issue is whether Cousins is better than --- a QB that has ranked in the bottom 3 in the entire league in QBR over the past 2 seasons --- in RGIII????

I hate the fact I have to spell everything out for you. I liked you more last year when you would say without hesitation that Dan Snyder was hands off owner with no preference towards RGIII and that RGIII was going to return to 2012 form....

riggofan wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Ya know... I can name a dozen starting and who have had poor preseasons this far as well. But in DC it's a *sh$t* when we don't play like it's the sb

That's ridiculous exaggeration. I'm sure its true that fans in the DMV overreact a lot when it comes to the Redskins, but come on man. If Griffin looks in this preseason like he did in LAST preseason, what are fans supposed to be thinking?

Here's preseason QB stats so far:
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... SER_RATING

Sorted by passer rating. You gotta go to page 2 to find RGIII. At #84. Behind Tim Tebow.

You realize that cowboykillerz, skinsjock, and deadskins are the 3 biggest RGIII apologists on the board, don't you?

You can give them all the stats and actual information you want and they'll find excuses for why they are skewed or somehow misrepresentative --- well perhaps not Deadskins in all situations, but the other two for sure.