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JAY Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:01 pm
by tribeofjudah
I am one who likes JAY and I hope he succeeds, because what that means is that the Redskins succeed.....(well duh..!!!)
We've been at the bottom for years, so things can ONLY get better.........right? We've got some pieces to work with.
Improvement at QB key for Jay Gruden
Gruden's first year as head coach spun violently off a cliff. His handling of Robert Griffin III seemed erratic -- with his public criticisms of the starting quarterback unheard of in the NFL, even if true. Playing quarterback roulette helped no one and kept his offense out of synch all season. The defense was even worse, allowing receivers to jaunt unimpeded across the secondary.
In Year 2, Gruden must show management some semblance of progress. Owner Daniel Snyder is not shy about firing coaches, and new general manager Scot McCloughan didn't hire Gruden -- never a good thing for a coach. Whether he sticks with RGIII or moves to Kirk Cousins or Colt McCoy, Gruden must find a quarterback who can run his offense this year as he likely won't have another whirl if his spin fails in 2015.
McCloughan spent the offseason beefing up the trenches, so Gruden and his staff -- including new defensive coordinator Joe Barry -- must show progress in building a tough program. Gruden must also display that he's matured in his second year on the job, keeping some of the laundry from being aired publicly.
Most important, the Redskins must climb out of the cellar of the NFC East. A third straight year at the bottom will spell doom for Gruden's future. -- Kevin Patra
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... witter_atn
Re: Jon Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:21 am
by PulpExposure
tribeofjudah wrote:I am one who likes Jon and I hope he succeeds, because what that means is that the Redskins succeed.....
I think you mean Jay...
Jon's kind of proven himself already
Re: Jon Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:16 pm
by OldSchool
Snyder may think along these lines because while he's a great marketeer but inept in terms of his management of team part of his business. I think it would be ridiculous for Griffin to destroy another coaching tenure in Washington but Gruden is forced to start Griffin and may well be dismissed if things head south again.
Re: Jon Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:40 am
by langleyparkjoe
I personally think he should be given another year regardless of how this season ends up.
It's just dumb to keep getting rid of guys without giving them a few years to make improvements and try out the squads they built.
If we keep getting rid of coaches like we always do, we'll be the "coach killers" and that's just not cool man.. not cool at all.
Re: Jon Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:57 am
by Deadskins
langleyparkjoe wrote:I personally think he should be given another year regardless of how this season ends up.
It's just dumb to keep getting rid of guys without giving them a few years to make improvements and try out the squads they built.
If we keep getting rid of coaches like we always do, we'll be the "coach killers" and that's just not cool man.. not cool at all.
I agree. You can't keep switching systems, I don't care how much talent you have.
Re: Jon Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:10 am
by riggofan
We HAVE to give Jay four years. Cannot continue to keep scrapping the team and starting over again.
I've said this before, but I would LOVE to see the team get to the point where we can honestly say, "We lost that game solely because of some Jay Gruden decision." If the coach is the worst problem this team has, we would be in great shape.
Re: Jon Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:21 am
by SkinsJock
Jay Gruden should be given the same opportunity as every player and coach - show that you can help this franchise or you are out of here
Re: Jon Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:27 am
by DarthMonk
What worries me is possibly giving the wrong guy time. If he's the right guy then great.
Steelers just extended their 3rd coach since 1969. Seems like they picked the right guy twice after Noll.
Fingers crossed for Jay.
Re: Jon Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:50 am
by emoses14
DarthMonk wrote:What worries me is possibly giving the wrong guy time. If he's the right guy then great.
Steelers just extended their 3rd coach since 1969. Seems like they picked the right guy twice after Noll.
Fingers crossed for Jay.
This is the point that gets lost the most whenever a conversation about Redskins Coaches and Dan's quick trigger come up. I don't want "coaching" stability if that means Steve Spurrier or Jim Zorn would have stuck around longer. And I put coaching in quotes because neither of them could actually coach. Especially Steve Inferior. I am thankful for Snyder's quick trigger on firing a coach in those cases. IN fact, there is really only one coach with respect to whom Dan's quick trigger really hurt us, Marty.
Also, I think there's one other point that sometimes gets glossed over, picking the right coach in the first place. Snyder is horrible at this. He has never (yes, I know what I'm saying re: Joseph Jackson Gibbs*) gotten a coaching hire right thus far. Shanahan doesn't qualify as a good hire because Shanahan is an unrepentant lying snake; though in fairness to Dan, that is hindsight, whereas all others should have been clear up front. Mike did do a great job of retooling this roster, and frankly I think if Gruden/McCloughan work out, we will probably incorporate Mike's work here outside of the way he "quit" as mostly a positive for the franchise.
*I loved the hire for my 8 year old self, but my 20 something year old self sort of wondered what Gibbs would be able to bring from an Xs and Os standpoint and knew that couldn't be a long term solution because he was just too damn old.
Re: Jon Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:00 pm
by tribeofjudah
PulpExposure wrote:tribeofjudah wrote:I am one who likes Jon and I hope he succeeds, because what that means is that the Redskins succeed.....
I think you mean Jay...
Jon's kind of proven himself already
Brain Fart.....big time. sorry, Yes Jay. I just changed the title.
Re: JAY Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:01 pm
by yupchagee
I am looking at 2 things:
1) Changing the system every 2-3 years is not likely to work out very well.
2) We may be getting close to the point where good people will not want to work here.
Re: JAY Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:15 pm
by Irn-Bru
If McCoughan felt like we could do better with another coach, I'd say let him make the change and take charge of the hiring process. I like Jay and think he's been OK so far. It's a tough situation, but he hasn't showed the incompetence that was apparent in Spurrier and Zorn. I really like the new offensive coach additions and think those are going to make their mark on the team while also freeing up Gruden.
Still, let the man who's building the roster also have his say in who coaches it. I can guarantee that the guy Scot picks won't be feeling the heat after only a season or two, so that would take care of the revolving-door problem.
Re: JAY Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:18 pm
by Irn-Bru
yupchagee wrote:I am looking at 2 things:
1) Changing the system every 2-3 years is not likely to work out very well.
Agreed. Usually a situation that is rotten every 3 years indicates problems higher up, though. Pretty obvious who is to blame in the case of the Redskins. But here's the thing:
2) We may be getting close to the point where good people will not want to work here.
I'd say we
were already at the point where good people would not work here. However, that perception is going to change quickly with McCloughan in charge. It's already changed on the level of personnel so far as players are concerned. We were able to bring in Callahan, who is the hottest offensive line coach in the game right now after what he did in Dallas.
If necessary, I think McCloughan has some capital he can expend to bring in a coach who otherwise wouldn't have wanted the gig.
In short, I think it was already worse than your point (2) would imply, but that it's also already getting better.
Re: JAY Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:32 pm
by SkinsJock
Scott should be given time to remake this franchise - at this time everybody is going to get a shot at keeping their place on the roster and despite what some think the decisions on who stays and who goes will be made according to what Scott perceives is in the best interest of the franchise going forward
no matter what the record is this coming season, if Scott thinks that anyone (from Gruden down to the water-boy) is going to help this franchise going forward they will be here in 2016
If Dan Snyder has anything to do with things here, it really does not matter how great a HC Gruden is or how good a job Scott does
Re: Jon Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:45 pm
by riggofan
emoses14 wrote:This is the point that gets lost the most whenever a conversation about Redskins Coaches and Dan's quick trigger come up. I don't want "coaching" stability if that means Steve Spurrier or Jim Zorn would have stuck around longer.
I take your point, but there's no way to know really if Jay Gruden == Spurrier or Zorn unless we've given him a fair shake. Can we really look at his 4-12 record in his first year with a horrible roster and start calling him the second coming of Zorn?
Unlike Spurrier or Zorn, Gruden has recent experience as an NFL coordinator, which seems like a legit/typical path to becoming a head coach. Unless the team completely goes off the rails, I think we have to be patient and strive for some stability.
Re: Jon Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:15 am
by OldSchool
emoses14 wrote:DarthMonk wrote:What worries me is possibly giving the wrong guy time. If he's the right guy then great.
Steelers just extended their 3rd coach since 1969. Seems like they picked the right guy twice after Noll.
Fingers crossed for Jay.
This is the point that gets lost the most whenever a conversation about Redskins Coaches and Dan's quick trigger come up. I don't want "coaching" stability if that means Steve Spurrier or Jim Zorn would have stuck around longer. And I put coaching in quotes because neither of them could actually coach. Especially Steve Inferior. I am thankful for Snyder's quick trigger on firing a coach in those cases. IN fact, there is really only one coach with respect to whom Dan's quick trigger really hurt us, Marty.
Also, I think there's one other point that sometimes gets glossed over, picking the right coach in the first place. Snyder is horrible at this. He has never (yes, I know what I'm saying re: Joseph Jackson Gibbs*) gotten a coaching hire right thus far. Shanahan doesn't qualify as a good hire because Shanahan is an unrepentant lying snake; though in fairness to Dan, that is hindsight, whereas all others should have been clear up front. Mike did do a great job of retooling this roster, and frankly I think if Gruden/McCloughan work out, we will probably incorporate Mike's work here outside of the way he "quit" as mostly a positive for the franchise.
Picking a choice isn't Snyder's problem because he picked Marty S, Joe Gibbs and Mike Shananhan. All good coaches but Snyder messes things up.
*I loved the hire for my 8 year old self, but my 20 something year old self sort of wondered what Gibbs would be able to bring from an Xs and Os standpoint and knew that couldn't be a long term solution because he was just too damn old.
Re: JAY Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:01 am
by fredp45
If Scot thinks Jay can be a good successful NFL coach, stick with him through thick and thin.
Look at the Bengals and Steelers -- they've had bad years (even a couple in a row) and they don't fire their coach.
Keep adding talented players and don't change the leadership. When you change head coaches, Off and def cord's you can expect a step back.
Re: JAY Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:45 am
by riggofan
fredp45 wrote:Look at the Bengals and Steelers -- they've had bad years (even a couple in a row) and they don't fire their coach.
Agree, Fred. Those teams (and let's be honest, the Giants are in that group too) have been willing to stick with their coaches and not constantly react to fans calling for a coach to be fired when they have a bad year. If you like and believe in your guy, then stick to your guns.
McCloughan is in kind of a weird spot since Gruden was already here when he was hired. It goes against what I've said, but if SM decided to part ways with Gruden, I'd probably give him the benefit of the doubt.
I like that we have a real GM in charge of the roster now though. This thing where every new coach we hire comes in here and completely blows up our roster is painful.
Re: JAY Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:43 am
by SkinsJock
Joe Gibbs tenure the 2nd time around was derailed because of the management not because he was out of touch or too old
NO HC can be effective in the environment that includes Dan Snyder - nobody
we now have Scott Mcloughan running things and the only thing that can adversely affect the rebuilding process is if Dan Snyder gets involved
things can get better here and both coaches and players will be given every opportunity to be a part of this franchise going forward ...
Jay Gruden does NOT look at this as 'a make or break year' - he looks at this as doing what he has always wanted to do and how lucky he is to be here and have the opportunity to be a HC in the NFL
hopefully Dan Snyder leaves things in the hands of guys that have a brain cell and know what they are doing
IT'S THAT SIMPLE
Re: Jon Gruden's make or break year.
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:22 am
by emoses14
riggofan wrote:emoses14 wrote:This is the point that gets lost the most whenever a conversation about Redskins Coaches and Dan's quick trigger come up. I don't want "coaching" stability if that means Steve Spurrier or Jim Zorn would have stuck around longer.
I take your point, but there's
no way to know really if Jay Gruden == Spurrier or Zorn unless we've given him a fair shake. Can we really look at his 4-12 record in his first year with a horrible roster and start calling him the second coming of Zorn?
Unlike Spurrier or Zorn, Gruden has recent experience as an NFL coordinator, which seems like a legit/typical path to becoming a head coach. Unless the team completely goes off the rails, I think we have to be patient and strive for some stability.
That's fair and I didn't mean to imply that I thought Jay deserved the quick trigger. With those two it was O-B-V-I-O-U-S, and quickly, that they were putrid. It's a bit like pornography for Justice Stewart, you know it when you see it, and there isn't really room for debate. That isn't the case for Gruden.
Stability with this coach and GM is a worthwhile goal. It was not for either Steve Inferior or Mr. Maroon and Black
