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A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:09 pm
by Deadskins
Snider: Redskins’ Griffin Still Has Far to Go
by Rick Snider
June 18, 2015 12:27 PM
WASHINGTON — It was another new play in a simple seven-on-seven drill where the offense has a big advantage given no pass rusher.
Robert Griffin III looked right, middle and finally the left corner searching for an open receiver.
Five Mississippi, six Mississippi . . .
Griffin finally whipped it to the receiver who was double covered and out-of-bounds. Not exactly the type of play or practice on Wednesday that provides confidence entering the team’s six-week break before training camp starts July 30.
Indeed, after having a solid practice on Tuesday where coach Jay Gruden raved over Griffin’s progress in his new kinder, gentler fashion, the passer looked bad on Wednesday. He even threw one off his back foot trying to make something happen.
Translation – Griffin’s mechanics still need work entering his fourth season. Don’t say it’s just a drill. You practice like you play and Griffin looked lost at times, especially in red zone snaps. Frankly, it was much like a lot of the past two seasons while the team went 7-25.
Whatever happened to that 2012 rookie sensation that made the monstrous trade of three firsts- and a second-round pick briefly seem worthwhile? Have the injuries robbed his overall ability? Has his ego failed to realize things are done differently in the NFL than his days at Baylor where a statue now stands outside Baylor’s stadium to remember his exploits?
This is Griffin’s last chance in Washington and maybe as an NFL starter and the overall spring workouts could have been a lot better. It doesn’t matter what clichés he says or Gruden’s temporary approval. It’s the offseason.
Griffin needs a full preseason. The Redskins can’t afford another Club Med where starters barely play. Griffin needs lots of work because there are still plays he can’t make. There’s a right side of the offensive line with a rookie tackle and young guard that need to get a feel where their quarterback moves. Griffin needs to learn receiver DeSean Jackson’s downfield speed that was never in sync last season for missed opportunities.
The Redskins have done everything they could to help Griffin, from spending the fifth overall selection on tackle Brandon Scherff, to hiring a top offensive line coach and an experienced quarterbacks coach who was a good passer in his day.
But it won’t matter if Griffin can’t read plays faster and commit to better mechanics on every single snap. He can’t wing the ball at times, because those go for touchdowns the other way.
The Redskins have been liberal with Griffin during practice. He gets extra seconds to throw the ball and still it’s often mediocre. Just wait till the fall when his helmet is a defender’s trophy.
Griffin gets maybe a half season to prove he’s worth keeping in 2016. Otherwise, the Redskins would rightly bench him for fear of injury that would cost the team $16 million.
Griffin needs to get better and get better now. While teammates can spend the next six weeks at the beach, Griffin better spend it in the film room and working out, because he’s still not ready to excel.
Otherwise, writers in another town will chronicle Griffin’s comeback.
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015/06/ ... far-to-go/Redskins Quarterbacks Coach Matt Cavanaugh on RG3’s Mechanics
by Brian McNally
June 18, 2015 12:53 PM
WASHINGTON — Much has been made this offseason about the Redskins fixing starting quarterback Robert Griffin III.
The day-to-day work of that continued development in fundamentals fall to quarterbacks coach Matt Cavanaugh. Griffin still works with offensive coordinator Sean McVay and head coach Jay Gruden. But Cavanaugh’s sole focus is to work with Griffin – and reserves Colt McCoy and Kirk Cousins.
That day-to-day process lost something last year as Gruden and McVay were spread thin with other duties. Griffin spent time in the offseason working with quarterback guru Terry Shea and had a minicamp of his own, of sorts, in Florida with some of his wide receivers. But the Redskins were anxious to get Griffin back to Redskins Park and under the supervision of their own coaches, too.
According to Cavanaugh, Griffin has a long stride. Sometimes when he moves around in the pocket it is difficult for him to re-set and keep his mechanics sound. He’s worked with Griffin all spring to focus on setting himself again and then delivering the ball in rhythm. That comes naturally for some quarterbacks. For others, they have to drill it constantly to make it stick.
“There’s flashes where [Griffin] goes on runs of 10, 12, 15 plays where everything’s right and then he’ll slip a little bit,” Cavanaugh said. “But then he gets back. He now knows when he doesn’t feel comfortable and he can figure it out watching on tape. So that’s encouraging. Getting better at anything you’ve got to be aware of it. And I think he’s become very aware of some of the things that we want him to do a little bit differently.”
Griffin was excellent on Tuesday during a minicamp practice. There have been other times during sessions open to the media that Griffin has regressed to old habits – holding on to the ball too long, inaccurate passes, interceptions. It’s a work-in-progress, but there also isn’t much time left to fine-tune things. Training camp is just six weeks away as the Redskins break for a rest before reconvening in Richmond. The key for Cavanaugh? That Griffin builds on days like Tuesday.
“[Griffin] looked poised, relaxed. He was accurate. He was throwing with a good base, he was able to finish his throwing motion. He made plays down the field. He made plays checking the ball down. Got a lot of completions. Got the ball out of his hand in good rhythm,” Cavanaugh said. “And all those things add to not getting sacked, not turning the ball over, not having negative plays. And I think he appreciated the day he had yesterday. I tell him after a day like that ‘You screwed up now. Because now we’re going to expect it every day.’”
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015/06/ ... mechanics/
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:12 am
by SkinsJock
when confronted with a bear, one guy says we'd better run and the other guy says, we can't outrun a bear ... and the first guy says I don't have to outrun the bear, I just need to outrun you ....
all Griffin needs to do is to show that he's the better option at QB and if he doesn't, we'll just bring in someone that can
we've got a couple of seasons to get it together here
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:27 pm
by OldSchool
Sounds like the same old same old.
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:40 am
by fredp45
The Tale of two Griffins is: College versus Pro
The Redskins picked a qb that played in a college offensive system, not a pro system. He played on a team where not getting 7 every time, or 2 out of 3 times was a failure.
Year 1 -- Mike and Kyle let him play his college system and it worked pretty well but it showed a pro qb can't hold up running that much in the NFL.
Year 2 -- He was not ready to play the position, as just getting on the field was an effort.
Year 3- new coach, new system, NO qb coach...gets hurt again in second game and out for 8-9 games.
Year 4 -- healthy, new qb coach, same system...the time is now.
If we can play good defense, have an occasional punt return beyond the 20, run the ball effectively, all we need from our qb (whoever that is) is NO mistakes, make an occasional play (with legs and/or arm) and we'll be fine.
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:37 pm
by GFlanagan3
The Tale of two Griffins is: College versus Pro
The Redskins picked a qb that played in a college offensive system, not a pro system. He played on a team where not getting 7 every time, or 2 out of 3 times was a failure.
Year 1 -- Mike and Kyle let him play his college system and it worked pretty well but it showed a pro qb can't hold up running that much in the NFL.
Year 2 -- He was not ready to play the position, as just getting on the field was an effort.
Year 3- new coach, new system, NO qb coach...gets hurt again in second game and out for 8-9 games.
Year 4 -- healthy, new qb coach, same system...the time is now.
If we can play good defense, have an occasional punt return beyond the 20, run the ball effectively, all we need from our qb (whoever that is) is NO mistakes, make an occasional play (with legs and/or arm) and we'll be fine.
I agree with your assessment for the most part. We need Griffin to excel, PERIOD. It really is on him and no one else. To expect the same as college is ludicrous. In the real world in ANY endeavor things change, Griffin has to adapt. Also, anything less than a PR beyond the 20 is simply failure. It is essentially only gaining a yard if you get to the 21 for instance.Why do I say that? If we let the ball bounce into the endzone we get it on the 20. To me it has always been a game of field position AND utilization of the same. Special teams (and others) let us down last year. We have to improve and yes for most on the team the time IS now.
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:00 pm
by fredp45
I agree on punt returns, I was actually being sarcastic and that doesn't come through when reading posts.
While overly simplified, I learned after watching football for more than 45 years, you're a good team when you win the battle of field position and turnovers. Of course, a few extra yards on punt returns helps field position, a good pass rush helps field position, a RB who can break a tackle and get that first down on 3rd or 4th and 1 helps keep a drive going and improves field position, a nice return when your opponent punts from their end zone, etc..and turnovers really impact field position.
If our Defense turns out to be stout, our play callers need to play it safe with our young qb's. When 3rd and 13, run the ball, throw a quick hitch, do a rollout, etc...something safe, pick up 6 or 7 yards and punt the ball -- that isn't a bad thing. RGIII needs to learn a punt is not a negative reflection on him! Punter Way has a great leg, let him punt and let the Defense do their thing. Win field position!
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:40 pm
by oj
Its what I've been saying, set the offense up so that we don't rely on the QB. Limit his role, let the entire offense take primary role and no need to pivot on the QB, if the QB starts getting stupid stick another one in there. It is clear we do not have a superstar as QB so its' best to admit it and start playing to what we can do instead of trying to do something that just ain't gonna happen. Lots of Superbowl Champions won because of thier defense and conservative offense. WE used to call that good football.
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:13 pm
by Hooligan
I just hope Cousins has learned to put bad plays behind him and avoid the death spiral.
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:23 am
by oj
Hooligan wrote:I just hope Cousins has learned to put bad plays behind him and avoid the death spiral.
I agree, problem is he has to have actual field time to get there. I don't think 'management' is going to make a commitment to make this happen.
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:51 am
by SkinsJock
the coaches need to determine if Griffin can play QB at a high level and how long will it take for him to be that QB
the most important part of assembling this roster is to identify those players that give the franchise the best chance for success in the long term, not just for this season - if Griffin needs time to become a really good NFL QB then they should do that
that is the same way that each and every player needs to be evaluated - I think these guys are looking for players at each and every position that will be better suited for the long term not just for this season
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:51 am
by riggofan
oj wrote:Hooligan wrote:I just hope Cousins has learned to put bad plays behind him and avoid the death spiral.
I agree, problem is he has to have actual field time to get there. I don't think 'management' is going to make a commitment to make this happen.
I don't know if "management" has anything to do with it. That seems like pure fan speculation IMO. The team appears committed to letting SM put this roster together correctly, so I would tend to believe if Scot told them he believed Cousins was the guy with the goods they would invest more in him.
Just to comment on what we've actually seen rather than what we guess might be happening behind the scenes. Its still bizarre to me that Kirk is sharing time with the second team thing with McCoy. If the team had even a bit of faith in Cousins' potential, I can't understand why they wouldn't be building him up as much as possible. I just don't quite get it. Some possible reasons:
1) The team doesn't believe in Cousins.
2) They're preparing McCoy to be the #2 anticipating a possible Cousins trade before the season.
3) They're preparing both to be the #2 anticipating that we will only carry two QBs this season.
Anything I'm missing? What do you think is most likely?
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:22 pm
by OldSchool
Many fans still cling to the hope that Griffin is going to morph into a real NFL QB this year, next year, the year after that, etc. I think probably every bit as many of us believe Snyder is too stubborn to admit he made an historically bad trade in 2012 and it is time to move on because Griffin doesn't process fast enough to play QB in the NFL and forces his employees to play him or else. Hopefully Griffin remains healthy this season and proves his very faithful supporters correct and confounds me and the many other doubters. I am expecting 2013-2014 type play from him but would love to be surprised.
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:00 pm
by riggofan
He's already an "NFL QB". And I don't know for sure, but I don't think its some huge contingent of fans anymore that are clinging to hope for RGIII specifically. I think fans just want SOMEBODY under center who can get the job done. If you need any evidence of that, just look at how quickly fans jumped on the Cousins bandwagon last yeah when he came in and lit up Jacksonville.
You may be right that this all still coming down to management and the kings ransom we paid for Griffin. If that's truly the case, then they'd better hope like hell he is ready to play in September. It won't look good for ANYBODY if Griffin isn't considerably better than he was last year.
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:17 pm
by OldSchool
riggofan wrote:You may be right that this all still coming down to management and the kings ransom we paid for Griffin. If that's truly the case, then they'd better hope like hell he is ready to play in September. It won't look good for ANYBODY if Griffin isn't considerably better than he was last year.
Gruden's post season statement about an open competition for the QB job and his awkward about face a week or two later is all the evidence I needed to confirm my suspicion Gruden has been instructed to play Griffin by Snyder. It appeared to me that McCoy and Cousins were both better running Gruden's offense and I was pissed McCoy got yanked after playing pretty well the instant Griffin was deemed healthy enough to play last year. I would've like to see if McCoy could've developed some momentum.
I wonder what changes we see in 2016 if Griffin doesn't play considerably better this season. I could see Griffin cut so they don't have to pay him 16M, Cousins opting to move on to another organization that will promise him an opportunity to compete for the starting spot and McCoy battling a 1st round draft choice or a FA for the starters spot. I think this is the most likely outcome.
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:46 pm
by Prowl33
Oldschool I'm gonna go a different route.
Gruden, mcvay, scot, and Cavanaugh sat down and decided Robert has the highest ceiling... and agreed the best chance at winning going forward is to give 1 guy all the reps leading up to preseason, vs a 3 way battle where no one can really get the proper training they need.
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:02 am
by Deadskins
Prowl33 wrote:Oldschool I'm gonna go a different route.
Gruden, mcvay, scot, and Cavanaugh sat down and decided Robert has the highest ceiling... and agreed the best chance at winning going forward is to give 1 guy all the reps leading up to preseason, vs a 3 way battle where no one can really get the proper training they need.
From what I've read RGIII has outplayed the other two by a large margin so far. According to Cavanaugh, he looks like he's got it for 10-20 plays in a row, and then an old habit will creep in, but they can recognize those times, and he can work to correct it during training camp. Personally, I think we are going to see 2012 Griffin again, but with better pocket skills. This season could be better than people think.
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:22 am
by SkinsJock
Who cares about how Griffin played or who was the 'better' QB last season - we were horrible
all that matters is that this franchise finds a way to have a QB under center that can lead the offense
the coaches and FO are now in charge here and they will determine who plays without any help or "advice" from Dan Snyder
this applies to every position and group on the field
haters are going to hate - it's what they do
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:39 am
by emoses14
Deadskins wrote:Prowl33 wrote:Oldschool I'm gonna go a different route.
Gruden, mcvay, scot, and Cavanaugh sat down and decided Robert has the highest ceiling... and agreed the best chance at winning going forward is to give 1 guy all the reps leading up to preseason, vs a 3 way battle where no one can really get the proper training they need.
From what I've read RGIII has outplayed the other two by a large margin so far. According to Cavanaugh, he looks like he's got it for 10-20 plays in a row, and then an old habit will creep in, but they can recognize those times, and he can work to correct it during training camp. Personally, I think we are going to see 2012 Griffin again, but with better pocket skills. This season could be better than people think.
Well, then you clearly are a RGIII apologist and your opinion is worthless. That's my hot taek.
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:45 am
by emoses14
SkinsJock wrote:Who cares about how Griffin played or who was the 'better' QB last season - we were horrible
While I agree in part with this, it is quite easy to see how those who focus on the last 2 years have or could have a negative outlook on Griffin. And how those with enough memory to recall what he did as a rookie with no attempt to mold him into a pocket passer have a positive view given year two in a new system and (hopefully) year one with no major injury to deal with. But yes, this is 2015, not 2012, 2013 or 2014.
SkinsJock wrote:all that matters is that this franchise finds a way to have a QB under center that can lead the offense
Absolutely. Prowl33's last guess as to how the coaches are handling the QBs is a very interesting one and may (MAY, I SAID MAY) shed light on how the franchise plans to do that.
SkinsJock wrote:the coaches and FO are now in charge here and they will determine who plays without any help or "advice" from Dan Snyder
this applies to every position and group on the field
I think this is true, but I guarantee you, there are more than a few that will never, ever buy that Snyder isn't involved in "football" decisions. That is right up until he wins a superbowl, then they'll say, see Snyder is finally not involved. The reason for this. . . well, they've learned from history (88%) and
SkinsJock wrote:haters are going to hate - it's what they do
This is the other 12%
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:01 am
by riggofan
emoses14 wrote:SkinsJock wrote:Who cares about how Griffin played or who was the 'better' QB last season - we were horrible
While I agree in part with this, it is quite easy to see how those who focus on the last 2 years have or could have a negative outlook on Griffin. And how those with enough memory to recall what he did as a rookie with no attempt to mold him into a pocket passer have a positive view given year two in a new system and (hopefully) year one with no major injury to deal with. But yes, this is 2015, not 2012, 2013 or 2014.
I agree with both of your comments. Last year was so atrocious across the board, I'm not sure how much to take away from any of it. I personally think Cousins played the best of any of the three, but not sure that is saying all that much given some of those multiple INT games.
I have no issue with the team giving Griffin a fair shake to show he should be the guy this year. Like it or not, he's the guy they drafted to be the franchise. My only hope is that if he struggles in the preseason this year, the coaches are honest about it and be prepared to go with one of the other QBs.
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:30 pm
by SkinsJock
Griffin has never been coached properly to make the transition from the way he has always played QB - he will get that now
I have no doubt the coaches think that Griffin is the best QB for what they and the franchise need and he will be given a lot of help to become a better NFL QB - to imply that this franchise will not do whatever it takes to get the best QB on the field is just silly and predictable from those that don't understand that this franchise is no longer under the guidance or influence of their stupid, clueless owner
unlike the past, every player here will be given every chance to earn their spot on the roster and that includes all 3 QBs ...
some players will be given preferential treatment over others but Dan Snyder will not be a factor in that decision
The QB that the coaches select to start here will be the QB that the coaches think gives them the best chance at success .... end of story
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:11 pm
by riggofan
SkinsJock wrote: to imply that this franchise will not do whatever it takes to get the best QB on the field is just silly and predictable from those that don't understand that this franchise is no longer under the guidance or influence of their stupid, clueless owner
I like your optimism, SJ, but that's all just talk at this point. We've been burned as a fan base repeatedly being told how things are different now, Snyder is out of the picture, etc; I don't think its silly at all that fans aren't all buying into this latest story solely on good faith. What's that saying about "Fool me once...?" I can't blame anybody for being suspicious when it comes to Snyder.
Hiring SM was a great start though, and I like what I've seen so far. I'm hopeful that you're right!
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:02 pm
by SkinsJock
I'm sure there will be many 'versions' and 'reports' of which Griffin we're going to see in 2015 ...
we're going to see Griffin show that he can play QB in the NFL and not be anything like he was in 2012, 2013 or 2014
he will wear the same #, that's about the only thing I think will be the same
I look for these guys to take full advantage of his talent and help mold him into the QB that this franchise needs for years to come
Re: A tale of two Griffins
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:11 am
by Deadskins
Anyway.
This thread is supposed to be about the two different views of Griffin's progress presented in the original post.