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something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:49 pm
by riggofan
Just reading Robert Kraft's statement about deflategate today and I found this quote especially irritating:
I just get really worked up. To receive the harshest penalty in league history is just not fair. The anger and frustration with this process, to me, it wasn’t fair. If we’re giving all the power to the NFL and the office of the commissioner, this is something that can happen to all 32 teams.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... e-penalty/I just want to say, F this guy. This is exactly what Redskins fans were saying when the league issued the salary cap penalty a few years ago. The only difference is that our team DEFINITIVELY broke no rules and were penalized harshly anyway. Where was Robert Kraft then to speak out and complain about "fairness"?
I'm actually in complete agreement with him on the way the league has all of this power to make these decisions and the team have little recourse. I just find it hard to sympathize with Kraft or any other owner given their silence when it was Washington's turn to get hosed by the commissioner.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:56 pm
by yupchagee
Roger acts kike the NFL is an independent country & he is dictator for life. Only the owners have the power to change things. As long as he helps them make money, that won't happen.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 2:47 pm
by riggofan
yupchagee wrote:Roger acts kike the NFL is an independent country & he is dictator for life. Only the owners have the power to change things. As long as he helps them make money, that won't happen.
Yep. As long as its happening to somebody else, nobody is willing to do anything. I remember being extremely frustrated at the time the salary cap BS was going on that the other owners were so willing to play along. The point wasn't about stepping in to help out Dan Snyder. The point was that if Goodell and the league can act that way towards Washington, he can do it to any team at any time.
What's going on with the Patriots should be a wake up call. The down and out Redskins and their little wanker of an owner, Snyder, probably don't foster much sympathy. Robert Kraft is one of the most active owners in the league though and the Patriots obviously one of the most successful franchises.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:10 pm
by Deadskins
riggofan wrote:yupchagee wrote:Roger acts kike the NFL is an independent country & he is dictator for life. Only the owners have the power to change things. As long as he helps them make money, that won't happen.
Yep. As long as its happening to somebody else, nobody is willing to do anything. I remember being extremely frustrated at the time the salary cap BS was going on that the other owners were so willing to play along. The point wasn't about stepping in to help out Dan Snyder. The point was that if Goodell and the league can act that way towards Washington, he can do it to any team at any time.
What's going on with the Patriots should be a wake up call. The down and out Redskins and their little wanker of an owner, Snyder, probably don't foster much sympathy. Robert Kraft is one of the most active owners in the league though and the Patriots obviously one of the most successful franchises.
But in our case (and maybe this one too), it was John Mara pulling the strings, not Goodell.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:59 pm
by Irn-Bru
I have to say that I think our punishment was worse: we lost the equivalent of 3-4 good players for two years. Fifteen percent of what we could spend just gone.
But I'm with you, riggofan: the timing of this is what makes his appeal to principle laughable. I've always thought Goddell exercised power arbitrarily, constantly switching gears whenever he feels like something needs to be emphasized, disregarding what justice would require. He's definitely a liar, and he's probably corrupt, with certain owners exercising unfair influence over him. But this has been evident for years to anyone with good sense. To complain now and pretend as though everything's been pretty good up until four months ago is to admit that you are blind, or worse.
Kraft is no ally to anyone looking to improve the situation; he's just mad because he was the victim this time around. I admit some degree of schadenfreude watching him flail around in the wake of this decision.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 4:56 pm
by riggofan
Irn-Bru wrote:I have to say that I think our punishment was worse: we lost the equivalent of 3-4 good players for two years. Fifteen percent of what we could spend just gone.
No doubt, man. And the whole timing of it, sticking it to us on the eve of the draft seemed done to maximize the damage done to our team. It just seemed like the complete opposite of what you would expect from a league commissioner. You know? You have this rule book, and you read the rules and make sure everybody is following the rules. I mean, freaking hell, my girls' soccer league spells out pretty much everything you can't do and exactly what the punishment will be if you break a rule.
Irn-Bru wrote:But I'm with you, riggofan: the timing of this is what makes his appeal to principle laughable. I've always thought Goddell exercised power arbitrarily, constantly switching gears whenever he feels like something needs to be emphasized, disregarding what justice would require.
I was searching for that word "arbitrary". Nails it, exactly.
Irn-Bru wrote:To complain now and pretend as though everything's been pretty good up until four months ago is to admit that you are blind, or worse.
Complete lack of credibility. The time to complain about the commissioner is not when you're the team on the hot seat.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:47 pm
by Prowl33
But thats how itll continue to work. When us and the cowboya got hit everyone else was just sitting back laughing pegging us as an even easier win. The worst part of that deal to me waa it was driven by a person with q huge personal game.
To me the allegations against the patriots is much worse. You had us spend extra money in an uncapped year, vs the pats maybe blatantly cheating by doctoring footballs in an effort to gain a competitive advantage. Can you imagine what their penalty would be if that colts game was decided by less than 7 points??? Their would atleast be discussions of stripping the SB title, likeky action against Bellicheat, and much longer on the table for Brady.
There in lies the REAL issue..there is no definitive penalty for something as simple as breaking league rules by doctoring or tampering with game equipment. whether the pats won by 100 points, im overtime, or lost by 100 points, it should be a black and white penalty for organization, coaches, and players.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 9:43 pm
by yupchagee
Deadskins wrote:riggofan wrote:yupchagee wrote:Roger acts kike the NFL is an independent country & he is dictator for life. Only the owners have the power to change things. As long as he helps them make money, that won't happen.
Yep. As long as its happening to somebody else, nobody is willing to do anything. I remember being extremely frustrated at the time the salary cap BS was going on that the other owners were so willing to play along. The point wasn't about stepping in to help out Dan Snyder. The point was that if Goodell and the league can act that way towards Washington, he can do it to any team at any time.
What's going on with the Patriots should be a wake up call. The down and out Redskins and their little wanker of an owner, Snyder, probably don't foster much sympathy. Robert Kraft is one of the most active owners in the league though and the Patriots obviously one of the most successful franchises.
But in our case (and maybe this one too), it was John Mara pulling the strings, not Goodell.
I keep telling people that Mara has embarrassing pictures of Roger with the Tuna. If you want to lose weight, picture THAT before you eat.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 10:19 pm
by OldSchool
This is the second time I know about NE got caught cheating. I'm glad they got a stiff penalty.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:04 pm
by Prowl33
If I were Goodell, given current evidence, I would minimum fine the team ATLEAST the $1million. I would suspend or discipline Bellichek, being the head coach of the team he is responsible for the actions of the team. After a full investigation of everyone involved, if it was evident that Brady knew about the footballs, id keep the 4 game suspension, if it was evident he actually conspired in it, id suspend him a whole season.
Lets face it, we know in some way Brady requested or suggested he wanted this, regardless of what the advantage is or isnt, the violation is all the same. This thing will never go to court, and if it did, dont you think Brady will have his cell phone records made available, and will just implicate himself legally removing all deniability.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:56 am
by Deadskins
Irn-Bru wrote:I admit some degree of schadenfreude watching him flail around in the wake of this decision.
Me too.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:12 am
by DarthMonk
Prowl33 wrote:If I were Goodell, given current evidence, I would minimum fine the team ATLEAST the $1million. I would suspend or discipline Bellichek, being the head coach of the team he is responsible for the actions of the team. After a full investigation of everyone involved, if it was evident that Brady knew about the footballs, id keep the 4 game suspension, if it was evident he actually conspired in it, id suspend him a whole season.
If I had the power I'd scrap the rule.
Failing that, I'd insist an official check the balls right before kickoff with a high quality digital gauge, that the balls be in plain view at all times, and that the balls be rechecked between quarters since weather conditions can so easily affect pressure.
That's what would happen if the league really cared about the issue of psi in an NFL football. Everything up until now points to the NFL not really caring.
Anybody think the ball this center is about to snap is inflated to 12.5 or more psi?
How about this one Boyd Dowler is catching?
Having said that, I have little or no sympathy for Kraft.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:15 am
by SkinsJock
riggofan wrote:Irn-Bru wrote:I have to say that I think our punishment was worse: we lost the equivalent of 3-4 good players for two years. Fifteen percent of what we could spend just gone.
No doubt, man. And the whole timing of it, sticking it to us on the eve of the draft seemed done to maximize the damage done to our team. It just seemed like the complete opposite of what you would expect from a league commissioner. You know? You have this rule book, and you read the rules and make sure everybody is following the rules. I mean, freaking hell, my girls' soccer league spells out pretty much everything you can't do and exactly what the punishment will be if you break a rule.
Irn-Bru wrote:But I'm with you, riggofan: the timing of this is what makes his appeal to principle laughable. I've always thought Goddell exercised power arbitrarily, constantly switching gears whenever he feels like something needs to be emphasized, disregarding what justice would require.
I was searching for that word "arbitrary". Nails it, exactly.
Irn-Bru wrote:To complain now and pretend as though everything's been pretty good up until four months ago is to admit that you are blind, or worse.
Complete lack of credibility. The time to complain about the commissioner is not when you're the team on the hot seat.
I agree with you guys - this issue is being made a lot worse by the NFL over-doing the penalty
I disagree with Prowl33 that this was a big advantage to the Pats - cheating, yes, but the results would not have been any different
everyone in the NFL 'cheats' and bends the rules in some way or another
what the NFL & Mara did to us was much worse - PLUS the NFL is going to back off this penalty soon - just watch
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 1:21 pm
by Prowl33
No I was saying it shouldnt matter if it was a big advantage or none at all. The rule was still broken
What do you think would be happening right now if the pats had won the game by 3 points in the last couple minutes?
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 1:44 pm
by Deadskins
DarthMonk wrote:Anybody think the ball this center is about to snap is inflated to 12.5 or more psi?
That flatness could be an optical illusion.
DarthMonk wrote:How about this one Boyd Dowler is catching?
Irrelevant. In those days, both teams used the same balls.
[Note the HAIL TO THE (unknown) banner in the background. Skins fans rooting against the Pies?
]
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 1:48 pm
by markshark84
I think the issue is larger and more dynamic than merely the deflation of balls. I actually read the report. The Pats tried to cover things up, along with Brady, JJ, and McNally. All the evidence provided by a third party's report showed that tampering with the footballs was inevitable. The Pats have a history of cheating. The Pats counsel wouldn't allow to re-interview key witnesses on evidence they recieved after the fact.
Meanwhile Kraft knows that the general public is too lazy and/or stupid to actually read a 139 page report sans appendix --- so he makes accusations against the basis for sanctions that others, who read the report, would laugh at. The accusations are completely unsupported -- such as how the sanctions are unfair and biased, without giving a reason to why specifically they are..... or compare them not to what they were accused of doing but to what other teams received for infractions (which is totally irrelevent given the Pats history and the uniqueness of the infraction). The NFL requested that the Pats suspend the 2 admin employees (one of whom is the longest tenured admin employee within the organization I believe) before they were sanctioned --- and they did (which begs the question why they would do that if they were "innocent".... to get a lesser sanction for something they are adamant they didn't do....).
There is so much I can say, but remember in 2007 the way in which teams could handle balls changed, placing more control in the teams hands. Now compare Brady's stats prior to 2007 and post-2007. In particular, fumbles. Based on those stats, it isn't hard to argue that Brady has been doing this for close to a decade.....
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 5:15 pm
by DarthMonk
Deadskins wrote:DarthMonk wrote:Anybody think the ball this center is about to snap is inflated to 12.5 or more psi?
That flatness could be an optical illusion.
I'm not referring to the appearance of the ball whatsoever. It's simply 59 below and there is no way the ball was checked at 12.5 before the game and then remained there.
Deadskins wrote:DarthMonk wrote:How about this one Boyd Dowler is catching?
Irrelevant. In those days, both teams used the same balls.
It's relevant to my point that the league has never truly cared much about maintaining accurate pressure in a ball throughout all games.
Deadskins wrote:[Note the HAIL TO THE (unknown) banner in the background. Skins fans rooting against the Pies?
]
It appears to say Hail to the Packers. If you look carefully you can deciper the upside-down letters. I noticed this too and was glad to see someone else pick it up.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 5:34 pm
by langleyparkjoe
LOL@flat balls... carry on
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 7:52 am
by Deadskins
DarthMonk wrote:Deadskins wrote:[Note the HAIL TO THE (unknown) banner in the background. Skins fans rooting against the Pies?
]
It appears to say Hail to the Packers. If you look carefully you can deciper the upside-down letters.
Yeah, I know, but I thought it was funny. Anyway, I was trying to think of a way it could read Redskins, but could only make it work as ReAdSKINS.
Hey, maybe it's DeADSKINS!
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 10:17 am
by Countertrey
langleyparkjoe wrote:LOL@flat balls... carry on
You wouldn't be laughing if they were yours...
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 10:58 am
by Deadskins
Countertrey wrote:langleyparkjoe wrote:LOL@flat balls... carry on
You wouldn't be laughing if they were yours...
Flat or icy, you wouldn't want either one.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 11:08 am
by DarthMonk
Countertrey wrote:langleyparkjoe wrote:LOL@flat balls... carry on
You wouldn't be laughing if they were yours...
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 9:58 pm
by RG3peat
ITs just PSI.....and if you flip the script and a QB cant set the pressure to get HIS best grip......and the others can within the "parameters".....who has an unfair advantage? This is just another ridiculous rule that micromanages the game. Its not like the home team sets the PSI for both teams to use.....they each get their own....to rub/rough up.....why not just play with a set of new untouched balls???
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 11:51 am
by riggofan
RG3peat wrote:ITs just PSI.....and if you flip the script and a QB cant set the pressure to get HIS best grip......and the others can within the "parameters".....who has an unfair advantage? This is just another ridiculous rule that micromanages the game. Its not like the home team sets the PSI for both teams to use.....they each get their own....to rub/rough up.....why not just play with a set of new untouched balls???
I'm with you, man. The level of scrutiny and seriousness over this issue is just completely stupid. The NFL should have just issued the team a fine after the game. "Game balls were found to be slightly below the PSI required by the rules. $500K fine. End of story." Instead we're talking about the "Wells Report" like its the "Warren Commission".
Allowing it to rise to this current epic scandal level has to be one of Goodell's biggest blunders ever.
Which is saying a lot when it comes to that d***head.
Re: something that can happen to all 32 teams
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 8:10 pm
by DarthMonk
riggofan wrote:RG3peat wrote:ITs just PSI.....and if you flip the script and a QB cant set the pressure to get HIS best grip......and the others can within the "parameters".....who has an unfair advantage? This is just another ridiculous rule that micromanages the game. Its not like the home team sets the PSI for both teams to use.....they each get their own....to rub/rough up.....why not just play with a set of new untouched balls???
I'm with you, man. The level of scrutiny and seriousness over this issue is just completely stupid. The NFL should have just issued the team a fine after the game. "Game balls were found to be slightly below the PSI required by the rules. $500K fine. End of story." Instead we're talking about the "Wells Report" like its the "Warren Commission".
Allowing it to rise to this current epic scandal level has to be one of Goodell's biggest blunders ever.
Which is saying a lot when it comes to that d***head.
Agreed. NFL trying to prove (among other things) it can punish non-blacks for things not related to domestic violence.