The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Despite my better judgement the incremental changes the new GM is making are giving me hope and hope is a dangerous thing for a Skins fan. The faintest of new shoots of hope emerge with each quiet transaction he makes, I am beginning to believe that if left to run the place he could help the Skins improve. The issue is always will Daniel Snyder let his employee do his job? I won't feel secure about control in 2015 until after the draft, I fear an incredible Snyder Stupid move could occur at anytime but thus far it looks like the new guy is calling the shots. With this in mind here are my hopes for 2015:

1. Finish FA and draft without any Snyder Stupid stuff. So far so good. Please no bet the farm Snyder moves this year.

2. New guys meet expectations. I don't expect each acquisition to work out great but hopefully we find that the 2015 high draft picks (1, 2, 3) and key FA meet expectations.

3. Improved defense. The unit has been bad I don't even expect them to be average in 2015 I just want to see some evidence that the new guys are going to help and the unit is somewhat improved. We have a new DC and will have some new starters so I don't expect a huge improvement but we need to see some.

4. Some improvement with the run game. Hopefully a couple of new starters on the line through FA or the draft led to more success running. I don't want the QB running I want the OL to be able to help the running backs get on track and help finish games.

5. Let Gruden run his team and start whoever he wants to maximize wins in 2015. Play the guy who knows how to play the best.

6. Improved QB play. My hope is to see consistent, average QB play in 2015, that would be better than we've seen in a long time. I'm very skeptical about Griffin's ability to process fast enough but hopefully he's been studying all winter and he'll surprise me. Cousins or McCoy will probably play only in the event of injury to Griffin or a major meltdown but I hope whoever plays the results are conclusively positive this year and we have an establish successful starter in 2016.

I like the optimism. I really like that you have some left. And I like that you even have a little tiny bit of your mind open to the possibility of Griffin improving, which honestly is a rather big step for you.

I on the other hand have no optimism. I also don't expect Griffin to be any better than last year, because I feel like he's been ruined by exposure to the Redskins-Snyder "Vortex of Player Ruination (TM)".*

I won't and I cannot jump ship to another team, but I also have been burned so badly...SO BADLY, that I have no hope. I just exist and watch the wreckage that is my franchise.

I pretty much at this point feel like on my journey as a Redskins fan, I passed under the 9th gate of hell. The one labeled "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."




*Miniature replica now available at any Redskins fan store, or at FedEx field on game days, for only $19.99, plus $45.00 fan loyalty surcharge.

PulpExposure wrote:I like the optimism. I really like that you have some left. And I like that you even have a little tiny bit of your mind open to the possibility of Griffin improving, which honestly is a rather big step for you.

I on the other hand have no optimism. I also don't expect Griffin to be any better than last year, because I feel like he's been ruined by exposure to the Redskins-Snyder "Vortex of Player Ruination (TM)".*

I won't and I cannot jump ship to another team, but I also have been burned so badly...SO BADLY, that I have no hope. I just exist and watch the wreckage that is my franchise.

I pretty much at this point feel like on my journey as a Redskins fan, I passed under the 9th gate of hell. The one labeled "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."




*Miniature replica now available at any Redskins fan store, or at FedEx field on game days, for only $19.99, plus $45.00 fan loyalty surcharge.

Items also available at any Johnny Rocket's with a Hamburger topper, or Six Flags park in the new Sylvester the Cat or Tweety Bird motif! Exciting stuff! You didn't know this?

Countertrey wrote:Items also available at any Johnny Rocket's with a Hamburger topper, or Six Flags park in the new Sylvester the Cat or Tweety Bird motif! Exciting stuff! You didn't know this?

Awesome. I must have missed that memo from Tony Wyllie.

PulpExposure wrote:I like the optimism. I really like that you have some left. And I like that you even have a little tiny bit of your mind open to the possibility of Griffin improving, which honestly is a rather big step for you.

I on the other hand have no optimism. I also don't expect Griffin to be any better than last year, because I feel like he's been ruined by exposure to the Redskins-Snyder "Vortex of Player Ruination (TM)".*

I won't and I cannot jump ship to another team, but I also have been burned so badly...SO BADLY, that I have no hope. I just exist and watch the wreckage that is my franchise.

I pretty much at this point feel like on my journey as a Redskins fan, I passed under the 9th gate of hell. The one labeled "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."

*Miniature replica now available at any Redskins fan store, or at FedEx field on game days, for only $19.99, plus $45.00 fan loyalty surcharge.

The new guy is doing the best he can. He is a vast improvement but you are right. Snyder still owns the team and Bruce is still Bruce. One more thing, Gruden will not be here for the 2016 season.

We have been steadily growing in numbers. Feel free to join ...

Redskin in Canada wrote:One more thing, Gruden will not be here for the 2016 season.

I don't think you are right about this, RiC. I think Scot is getting him the players he needs to be successful, and we will see enough improvement this season that he keeps his job at least another year.

Deadskins wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:One more thing, Gruden will not be here for the 2016 season.

I don't think you are right about this, RiC. I think Scot is getting him the players he needs to be successful, and we will see enough improvement this season that he keeps his job at least another year.

Mmmmmmhhhhhhh

First, the drama, which is yet to unfold, between RGIII and Gruden will bring both down. Remember, RGIII was Snyder's choice and he -was- his spoiled brat for a while.

Second, you assume both Gruden and his new, either unproven or poorly proven (your choice), DC have something up their sleeves. They do not.

Yep, some personnel are better. Is it still enough to save Gruden from himself? I say NO for a number of reasons, including unfinished holes in the roster, but only time will tell. I have seen enough to feel that he is still not the man for the job and he may even lose the locker room as the record develops this 2015 season. No, the Skins will not have a winning season again and it will be very difficult to avoid another last place in the NFC East.

But do not let me spoil the enthusiasm of the masses on the way to the Draft. Some fans are willing to just witness some progress and THAT they will have.

[quote=
Mmmmmmhhhhhhh

First, the drama, which is yet to unfold, between RGIII and Gruden will bring both down. Remember, RGIII was Snyder's choice and he -was- his spoiled brat for a while.

Second, you assume both Gruden and his new, either unproven or poorly proven (your choice), DC have something up their sleeves. They do not.

Yep, some personnel are better. Is it still enough to save Gruden from himself? I say NO for a number of reasons, including unfinished holes in the roster, but only time will tell. I have seen enough to feel that he is still not the man for the job and he may even lose the locker room as the record develops this 2015 season. No, the Skins will not have a winning season again and it will be very difficult to avoid another last place in the NFC East.

But do not let me spoil the enthusiasm of the masses on the way to the Draft. Some fans are willing to just witness some progress and THAT they will have.[/quote]

Wow! So dark but of course you may be right.

You could be right about major Gruden/Griffin conflict occurring if Griffin isn't better this year. There was a fair amount of drama last year but it paused during Griffin's injury. If Griffin doesn't some traction and start running Jay's offense better it might get real tense.

I think Gruden will benefit from low expectations this year if we are any sort of benchmark. I think most Skin fans I know would be satisfied with modest improvement. I think if the team plays a little better, some of the new guys contribute so it looks like progress Grudent will be back.

Poor ticket sales could change things and shorten the runway for Gruden. Last year Redskin tickets could had for $5-7 on Stubhub another bad year like that and Snyder might get worried about long time season ticket holders bailing on him because seats are cheap on Stubhub.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:One more thing, Gruden will not be here for the 2016 season.

I don't think you are right about this, RiC. I think Scot is getting him the players he needs to be successful, and we will see enough improvement this season that he keeps his job at least another year.

Mmmmmmhhhhhhh

First, the drama, which is yet to unfold, between RGIII and Gruden will bring both down. Remember, RGIII was Snyder's choice and he -was- his spoiled brat for a while.

Second, you assume both Gruden and his new, either unproven or poorly proven (your choice), DC have something up their sleeves. They do not.

Yep, some personnel are better. Is it still enough to save Gruden from himself? I say NO for a number of reasons, including unfinished holes in the roster, but only time will tell. I have seen enough to feel that he is still not the man for the job and he may even lose the locker room as the record develops this 2015 season. No, the Skins will not have a winning season again and it will be very difficult to avoid another last place in the NFC East.

But do not let me spoil the enthusiasm of the masses on the way to the Draft. Some fans are willing to just witness some progress and THAT they will have.

If he fires this coach after just two seasons, then we will be starting all over again. I'm not sure even The Danny could be that stupid. Besides, Gruden was able to bench RGIII last season, so I don't think there will be as much support as you think if Bob is sucking or not playing the way Gruden wants.

If he fires this coach after just two seasons, then we will be starting all over again.

Your point being ???

I'm not sure even The Danny could be that stupid.

I am

Besides, Gruden was able to bench RGIII last season, so I don't think there will be as much support as you think if Bob is sucking or not playing the way Gruden wants.

Releasing RGIIII makes Snyder go through a lot of ridicule. He hates nothing more than to be regarded as the Rodney Dangerfield among the owners.

Somebody else will pay because in such drama nobody wins and the options available at QB will not bail Gruden out.

But nobody addressed the other points: there are HUGE HOLES still in the roster. QB for one but OL, and LB. The safety and CBs situationa are still wait and see. And a whole lot of new players in the team are expected to sync in ONE season in a new system? I think NOT.

And then there is the fundamental problem: I do not think Gruden is such a great HC, let alone his once 0-16 DC.

Economics, the W-L records over the 2014 and 2015 seasons, and ridicule will FORCE Snyder's hand.

Low expectations in Washington???? Fans will be happy with yet another losing record if there is -some- progress?

The DARK SIDE is winning. Many fans have already voted with their feet and wallets. Others will join as time goes bye.

The DARK SIDE is calling guys. Join us ...

Make no bones about it, Gurden is on the clock. He either wins this year or he’s gone and it will be a rather easy sell to the fans because of the new GM. Snyder wasn’t involved at all (is what we’ll hear form Redskins Park) it will be sold as Gruden not being a good fit for SM.

If we are to be optimistic and realistic then Gruden needs to take the QB out of the picture. RunRunPassPunt, old school football. 3rd down passes 5yds tops (which is why I was shocked when Helu left). Rely heavily on defensive play and let the kicker win the games. You know, boring football that racks up victories.
I think gruden is too inexperienced to assemble and manage a killer overwhelming offense - that is what most on here are wishing for, but we need to be realistic. The best we can hope for is to minimize the QB (our weak link) position and play our strengths, a conservative offense with a killer defense.

DEHog wrote:Make no bones about it, Gurden is on the clock. He either wins this year or he’s gone and it will be a rather easy sell to the fans because of the new GM. Snyder wasn’t involved at all (is what we’ll hear form Redskins Park) it will be sold as Gruden not being a good fit for SM.

Win this year? What does that mean? Pick up 2 or 3 more wins and show an upward trend with the team starting to look better which may be possible or do you really think Gruden he needs to get over .500? I think expecting a winning season would be an absurd standard. Hopefully Gruden can produce some modest progress so most folks can see some progress from Scot and Gruden.

DEHog wrote:Make no bones about it, Gurden is on the clock. He either wins this year or he’s gone and it will be a rather easy sell to the fans because of the new GM.

What do you mean exactly by "he either wins this year or he's gone"? Wins what? The Super Bowl? A playoff game? The NFC East? More games than last year?

There's a point there where I might agree with you. I don't think he can go 3-13 this year and survive as head coach. But there isn't the expectation going into this season that the team is going to be especially good. I think the team just has to show improvement from last year, and Gruden has to look like he is actually in control.

Redskin in Canada wrote:Second, you assume both Gruden and his new, either unproven or poorly proven (your choice), DC have something up their sleeves. They do not.

I don't assume they have anything "up their sleeves". There isn't some quick fix for this mess. Personally I think they've improved the defensive personnel enough that Barry will be more successful than Haz whatever that is worth.

Redskin in Canada wrote:I have seen enough to feel that he is still not the man for the job and he may even lose the locker room as the record develops this 2015 season. No, the Skins will not have a winning season again and it will be very difficult to avoid another last place in the NFC East.

I don't know that I've seen enough, but I get what you're saying. To me, the sign of a really good coach is how he responds and adjusts when things aren't going well. Gruden definitely had that deer in the headlights look, seemed completely lost in a few of those games last year. His "relationship" with RGIII isn't encouraging either.

I'm neither optimistic nor pessimistic at this point. I guess we'll see...

OldSchool wrote:Win this year? What does that mean? Pick up 2 or 3 more wins and show an upward trend with the team starting to look better which may be possible or do you really think Gruden he needs to get over .500? I think expecting a winning season would be an absurd standard. Hopefully Gruden can produce some modest progress so most folks can see some progress from Scot and Gruden.

Yeah I had the EXACT same reaction to that comment. I just don't believe fans - and more importantly - the media have those types of expectations for the team right now. Look how excited everybody is just to have a GM who isn't making crazy deals in the offseason.

I think its more about looking competent this year. No QB carousel. No 44-17 losses at home. Don't lose badly at home to the worst team in the league.

riggofan wrote:

OldSchool wrote:Win this year? What does that mean? Pick up 2 or 3 more wins and show an upward trend with the team starting to look better which may be possible or do you really think Gruden he needs to get over .500? I think expecting a winning season would be an absurd standard. Hopefully Gruden can produce some modest progress so most folks can see some progress from Scot and Gruden.

Yeah I had the EXACT same reaction to that comment. I just don't believe fans - and more importantly - the media have those types of expectations for the team right now. Look how excited everybody is just to have a GM who isn't making crazy deals in the offseason.

I think its more about looking competent this year. No QB carousel. No 44-17 losses at home. Don't lose badly at home to the worst team in the league.

We're on the same page and so are the guys I talk to people just want to see that Scot is making the personnel decisions and Gruden does incrementally better this year with Scots guys helping out.

OldSchool wrote:We're on the same page and so are the guys I talk to people just want to see that Scot is making the personnel decisions and Gruden does incrementally better this year with Scots guys helping out.

I look forward to the day when we complain that we lost a game because of Jay Gruden.

riggofan wrote:

OldSchool wrote:We're on the same page and so are the guys I talk to people just want to see that Scot is making the personnel decisions and Gruden does incrementally better this year with Scots guys helping out.

I look forward to the day when we complain that we lost a game because of Jay Gruden.

Be careful what you ask for.

oj wrote:

riggofan wrote:

OldSchool wrote:We're on the same page and so are the guys I talk to people just want to see that Scot is making the personnel decisions and Gruden does incrementally better this year with Scots guys helping out.

I look forward to the day when we complain that we lost a game because of Jay Gruden.

Be careful what you ask for.

I'm totally serious about that. If we actually have a team that is good enough to win every Sunday but the coach screws it up? That will be great. I'll be the first guy on the fire Jay bandwagon.

riggofan wrote:

OldSchool wrote:We're on the same page and so are the guys I talk to people just want to see that Scot is making the personnel decisions and Gruden does incrementally better this year with Scots guys helping out.

I look forward to the day when we complain that we lost a game because of Jay Gruden.

He’ll have to have a winning record, but more importantly he’ll have to convince SM that he’s the guy going forward. That’s really the bigger issue, SM didn’t hire him. My original point is that because SM didn’t hire him it will be easier for him and the organization to sell it to the fans. Snyder won’t have to (or appear to have) any involvement in firing him. Truth be told I’m sure topic 1, 2 and 3 during the interview process was his ability to develop RG and if RG fails again this year and they have another losing record he should be gone…

DEHog wrote: Truth be told I’m sure topic 1, 2 and 3 during the interview process was his ability to develop RG and if RG fails again this year and they have another losing record he should be gone…

At that point, wouldn't they also ditch RG3?

What if RG3 gets benched and we end with a winning record?

I'm not sure I'd tether a coach's future here to RG3's development if that coach could bring in "his" QB instead and succeed. To me, that's living in the past. Those draft picks are long gone.

At that point, wouldn't they also ditch RG3?

Yes

What if RG3 gets benched and we end with a winning record?

That’s why I said…if RG fails again this year and they have another losing record he should be gone…

I'm not sure I'd tether a coach's future here to RG3's development if that coach could bring in "his" QB instead and succeed. To me, that's living in the past. Those draft picks are long gone.

Me either but did you watch last season??? It was pretty obvious that Gruden gave up on RG pretty quick…I’m sure the FO reminded him about the main reason he was hired!! Again and more importanly Gruden wasn't hired by SM...

DEHog wrote:That’s why I said…if RG fails again this year and they have another losing record he should be gone…

So if the Redskins improve from 4-12 to 7-9, they should fire Gruden? Sounds like a great plan for rebuilding the team.

riggofan wrote:

DEHog wrote:That’s why I said…if RG fails again this year and they have another losing record he should be gone…

So if the Redskins improve from 4-12 to 7-9, they should fire Gruden? Sounds like a great plan for rebuilding the team.

I'm saying that possibility exist because you have a new sherriff in town, there are plenty of examples of coaches losing their job because of a new GM being hired.

[/quote]
It was pretty obvious that Gruden gave up on RG pretty quick…I’m sure the FO reminded him about the main reason he was hired!! [/quote]

I don't think this a fair statement. You may be right that Gruden thinks Griffin is hopeless but he hasn't said so publicly, The best evidence contradicts this assertion. In 2014 Gruden gave Griffin the starter reps and started Griffin until he got hurt. Despite McCoy performing pretty well in relief of Cousins Gruden opted to start Griffin when Griffin was healthy enough to play. If Gruden had really quit on Griffin don't you think he'd have put his foot down then and said I want to go with McCoy?

There was a lot speculation in the media about Gruden giving up on Griffin but media reports are not necessarily well grounded in reality. When Griffin was healthy he got the starters reps and started. The distribution of starting reps and starting the games when healthy enough to play is most important measurement. Last year Gruden criticized Griffin and did so publicly but maybe Gruden thought he needed to that to get Griffin's attention. After the season Gruden declared Griffin the starter in 2015, it certainly isn't obvious to me Gruden has quit on Griffin.