The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

If Jameis Winston is sitting there at number 5, we should really think long and hard about taking this guy. Its a risk considering that he has made some dumb choices, such as the crab leg incident lol, but if we could get him in here, set-up a program, such as the one that Jerry Jones has done with Dez Bryant, to keep him out of trouble, which by the way seems to be doing very well, I think we should take this guy. I do not know what football people watch, but if you turn on the tape of Jameis Winston, he is the closest thing to Andrew Luck as you are going to get. He is light years beyond RG already. He runs a Pro-Style system and is a big body, durable. I know most people are against this but he is the real deal, as much as some people do not want to believe. I have friends that are scouts at big D-1 schools like Clemson and Virginia Tech, that have ties to the NFL circle, and they have all told me the same, the kid is the real deal, one of the best pocket passers they have seen, one guys in particular told me that Andrew Luck is the only QB in years to come out that may be more NFL ready than him. He comes with a risk, but if we want to end our long history of misses on Quarterbacks, then we should think about drafting him.

Is this a joke? Honestly? If not then:



Your "friends" are not very good at their profession. They obviously don't understand what "NFL" accuracy is -- which is VASTLY different than NCAA accuracy. I don't even care about his behavior off the field. I agree he is big and durable, but he is out-of-this-world immature and is not good at throwing into tight circles. His balls also "float", he has a loose windup, and doesn't make quick decisions. He is absolutely nothing like Luck. Not even close --- like not in the same universe. Outside of their height and weight, they literally couldn't be any different.

Pass.

We have greater needs than #5 with our #5.



Sorry, didn't get it all out.....

I rarely get to say I wholeheartedly 100% agree with MarkShark, but this is onebof those times..

Besides the fact that he is a total tool, and waaaaaaay more Johnny football esque then Luck... he is waaay over rated. Watch the last game for a good look at his "skills".

If he is sitting at 5 we enterain trade offers or pass. His immaturity, jmo, just shadows how unintelligent he is.

markshark84 wrote:Is this a joke? Honestly? If not then:



Your "friends" are not very good at their profession. They obviously don't understand what "NFL" accuracy is -- which is VASTLY different than NCAA accuracy. I don't even care about his behavior off the field. I agree he is big and durable, but he is out-of-this-world immature and is not good at throwing into tight circles. His balls also "float", he has a loose windup, and doesn't make quick decisions. He is absolutely nothing like Luck. Not even close --- like not in the same universe. Outside of their height and weight, they literally couldn't be any different.

Pass.

We have greater needs than #5 with our #5.



Sorry, didn't get it all out.....

This thread can end right here. I am an FSU fan. I am happy he is entering the draft.

Well it is quite obvious that you all are not familiar with football, and what it takes to be good QB. Maybe you guys have not played football or not have studied actual game type. And by no means is Johnny Football similar to Jameis Winston. Complete different quarterbacks. By the way Bud Foster at Virginia Tech and these scouts that work at Clemson do know what they are talking about. They have a proven track record. What the hell is your guys track record?? Have you played in the NFL or recruited and coached up dozens of 1st round guys and other NFL players? My guess is not. But guess you still know more than they do. Hmmm that is interesting. Have no clue what you guys are looking at. Anyway any draft analyst out there on tv will say the same. For one, he runs a Pro-Style system, like Andrew Luck, which is essential to transitioning to the NFL. As you can see RG and Johnny Football, ran a spread in college, and we all know how they have struggled. The input I have gotten from them regarding a players talent has always been spot on. Got the same word from those guys regarding Russel Wilson coming out, so I was telling everybody then that I hoped we passed on RG and got Russell. Looked how that turned out for us. We would not be in this mess right now if we would have used that first round pick on a top notch OL, and got Russell in the second round. They were right about that and everything else they have told me in the past, so until somebody on this board tells me something that is actually smart and accurate with football knowledge, that rivals the accurate input I receive from those coaches, who are almost always spot on, I will rest my case.

Ah don't get too bothered about it, man. Its not personal. There are lots of strong opinions around here and you shouldn't be surprised that people have reacted strongly about Winston. Especially while we're still in the ongoing RGIII fiasco.

I'll admit I was really surprised to read your comparison of Luck and Winston. Had to go out and google that for myself a bit to see if there was any truth to it. I love his size and the fact that he's played in a pro style offense. I'm probably less concerned about the off field stuff than I was earlier this year, but I'm still concerned about his maturity coming out of school early.

I expect us to take the best offensive or defensive lineman we can get at #5 in April. But if Scot McGloughan says Winston is the best player available at that spot and wants him, so be it!

BTW I can't type McGloughan for the next four years. Is it too early to start going with Scotty Mac?

Well if he’s all that and as good as they say…what makes you think he would be available at 5… surely Tampa will take him!!

This should make you feel better...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2321822-2015-nfl-mock-draft-updated-1st-round-outlook-after-wild-card-weekend#articles/2321822-2015-nfl-mock-draft-updated-1st-round-outlook-after-wild-card-weekend/page/6

Pass. I honestly don't think he is worthy of a top 10 qb after watching his game against Oregon. (It wasn't the first time I watched him play) I think it would be a huge mistake taking a qb with the 5th pick. That qb will struggle with the surrounding pieces. Lets let the new GM take control and build a good roster. Maybe find a gem in the 3rd round.

I have a question Winston is so immature and if Robert is struggling with the DC and the media everywhere. Imagine the party of drama the Redskins would face. He isn't ready to be a mature adult yet. PERIOD.

TrueRedskin11 wrote:Well it is quite obvious that you all are not familiar with football, and what it takes to be good QB. Maybe you guys have not played football or not have studied actual game type. And by no means is Johnny Football similar to Jameis Winston. Complete different quarterbacks. By the way Bud Foster at Virginia Tech and these scouts that work at Clemson do know what they are talking about. They have a proven track record. What the hell is your guys track record?? Have you played in the NFL or recruited and coached up dozens of 1st round guys and other NFL players? My guess is not. But guess you still know more than they do. Hmmm that is interesting. Have no clue what you guys are looking at. Anyway any draft analyst out there on tv will say the same. For one, he runs a Pro-Style system, like Andrew Luck, which is essential to transitioning to the NFL. As you can see RG and Johnny Football, ran a spread in college, and we all know how they have struggled. The input I have gotten from them regarding a players talent has always been spot on. Got the same word from those guys regarding Russel Wilson coming out, so I was telling everybody then that I hoped we passed on RG and got Russell. Looked how that turned out for us. We would not be in this mess right now if we would have used that first round pick on a top notch OL, and got Russell in the second round. They were right about that and everything else they have told me in the past, so until somebody on this board tells me something that is actually smart and accurate with football knowledge, that rivals the accurate input I receive from those coaches, who are almost always spot on, I will rest my case.

Wrong dude to throw those first couple sentences out to. I have played more football than you have watched (and/or played) in your life.

Moving on, there is so much to comment on in your post it is comical. I am salivating but don't have the time to pick it apart as much as I'd like.

To be clear: I am not saying I know more than anyone on this planet. I AM saying that your "sources" are wrong in their evaluation based on clear evidence; some of which I posted and you refuse to or just don't understand. Playing in the NFL, coaching players, and recruiting doesn't mean you know how to evaluate talent. Talent evaluation is an art form, vastly different from all other facets of the game. That is why many of the best GMs never played in the NFL. Assuming they aren't imaginary, I can guarantee you I don't know a fraction of what your "sources" (assuming they are actually real and purport to be who you say they are) know when it comes to coaching and recruiting a player --- but I can tell you that I know more about talent than any "scout" who thinks Winston and Luck are one and the same (and honestly, that isn't saying much).

I do like your quote about how you don't know what I'm looking at --- especially since I gave a you cliff's notes version of what I didn't like about him. And I'm really glad all the TV show analysts agree with you...... We should just end the convo right there......

Can you provide a citation to the date stamped post where you said we should take Wilson and pass on RGIII? Actual evidence would be handy. And in all humility, I thought I was the only one that didn't like the RGIII pick.... Also, Russell at #39 would have been a reach -- so even if you weren't lying, you'd still be wrong.

I also love how you said that had we picked Wilson and used the 1st on an OL, we'd be in such a better situation (which anyone can now say) ----- then you say we should draft Winston and NOT pick an OL with our #5 this year..... huh?? See what I'm getting at?

And if your imaginary/actual sources are always this spot on, they woudn't be scouting southern VA and carolina high school kids.

Finally, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the bold sentence. I hope you aren't dumb enought to understand that, in your eyes, this will never happen --- because the only way a statement will be "smart" is if it agrees with what your imaginary scout friends say or what you personally believe; a thought process that is not accurate. And the fact none of us weren't actually with you when your imaginary scount friends told you why Winston was going to be successful in the NFL makes it even more difficult to refute.

I wish I had more time to pick your post up, but I don't.

Oops.. I guess the topic was supposed to be a one sided love fest for a qb whonlooked like doodoo last week.

In my response I said he was more like Johnny then when you compared him to luck- not that he was exactly like him.

If I had to compare him to anyone itd probably be Mcnugget- drunk. The kid comes off as ignorant imo and extremely cocky. Even when coach is talking inhis ear talking what to say , vs ND.

Is he awful? Nah. Is he Luck? No way in hell. His true colors were shown vs a decent D last week- and the NFL will be a BIG step for him. If he were smart hed have stayed another year to hone his skills the jump up will be a big one I dont see him ready for.

If u wanted a back and forth with scouts instead of fans- im not sure why you posted here- just to question credentials when people dont agree with him being our saviour.

Welcome to the site btw.. I play, have played, and coached football... never at the nfl level but I know the sport pretty well for a "fan". Ill be the first to admit that character plays into my evaluation- part of the reason I still support Robert and have no respect for Jamies or Johnny.

@MarkShark

Quotes from MarkShark, "I hope you aren't dumb enought to understand that, in your eyes, this will never happen"" For one I never said this would happen. I said we should consider it, I do not know if you have watched any Redskins games this year, but it does not seem as if we have a franchise QB on the roster. MarkShark""And if your imaginary/actual sources are always this spot on, they woudn't be scouting southern VA and carolina high school kids." ?? Who said they were scouting just southwest VA kids and Carolina kids? I do not know if you have realized this or not but they get players from all over, and other than "MY imaginary friends", my football coach was a an ALL AMERICAN at UVA and played in for the Dolphins, who happens to be one of the best coaches in the State, who is close with Peyton Manning and Dan Marino, SO yes I do have connections other than the "IMAGiINARY FRIENDS" you speak of. SECONDLY, I do not know WHY you are slamming Virginia and North Carolina kids, that just childish on your part, slamming high school kids, and just so happens that some of the best players in the country comes from those two states. More qoutes from MARKSHark "" I also love how you said that had we picked Wilson and used the 1st on an OL, we'd be in such a better situation (which anyone can now say) ----- then you say we should draft Winston and NOT pick an OL with our #5 this year..... huh?? See what I'm getting at? " " Seriously dude?? I meant that for that year, Its a weak OL class this year nobody strong enough to be picked in the top 5, but going back to our QB problem, we aren't going to be able to get to where we want to go unless we have a franchise QB, which I believe Jameis Winston is. So, yea we should take him in the first, and draft and OL in second. Changes from year to year dude. MarkShark "" I have played more football than you have watched (and/or played) in your life."" So have you played at a D-1 school and went on to play in the NFL ??? I hope so with the way you are talking. ""Also, Russell at #39 would have been a reach -- so even if you weren't lying, you'd still be wrong." " Are you *sh$t* me dude, what the hell are you talking about Russell at 39, would be a reach, that would be a damn steal. You were probably one of the ones slamming Russell Wilson before he got drafted just like you are slamming Jameis Winston now. Everybody knew he had just as much talent as anybody except for Luck, his only knock was his height which, was dumb because he played behind the biggest OL in college. But whatever dude, you know everything as I can see, never said Winston was just like Luck, but from a pocket passer, and skill standpoint he is the closest thing you are going to get. If you can't turn on the game tape and tell by the way he goes through his progressions and reads, that he is not the best QB coming out, and that has come out, the past coupled of years, like I said "other" than Andrew Luck than you do not know HALF of what you think you do. And as far as the Oregon game goes that was not on Jameis Winston. ""I wish I had more time to pick your post up, but I don't.[/quote]"" I do like this quote from you though. Thats whats up. I have said all I got to say. No need to be so serious lol. I like the debate though man. Its definately been a nice.

We don't need this kind of garbage on our team. We need to focus on building a core of offensive linemen and a defensive secondary that is not the worst in the league first. A late round QB to groom should be the focus.

If this were true, about gim being the best qb since Luck.. why is he slated to drop to us at 5? AND most likely NOT the first qb to be drafted? Hmmmm the rest of the world must be horrible talent evaluators.

I kinda doubt Winston will drop to #5 no matter how its "slated".

Funny I heard Mike & Mike talking about him today and sort of backing up what TrueRedskin11 wrote about scouts' opinions. They compared him to Ben Roethlisberger though rather than Andrew Luck. Golic's point was that success and performance in college has little to do with how scouts evaluate these guys' potential for success in the NFL, and Winston apparently fits a lot of what they're looking for. (I realize btw that ESPN has a vested interest in talking about and hyping up these guys.)

Who knows? Wouldn't surprise me either way if he ends up being good or not. I think this past year probably proved though that we have too many other needs to take (and probably ruin) a high QB pick.

TrueRedskin11 wrote:@MarkShark

Quotes from MarkShark, "I hope you aren't dumb enought to understand that, in your eyes, this will never happen"" For one I never said this would happen. I said we should consider it, I do not know if you have watched any Redskins games this year, but it does not seem as if we have a franchise QB on the roster. MarkShark""And if your imaginary/actual sources are always this spot on, they woudn't be scouting southern VA and carolina high school kids." ?? Who said they were scouting just southwest VA kids and Carolina kids? I do not know if you have realized this or not but they get players from all over, and other than "MY imaginary friends", my football coach was a an ALL AMERICAN at UVA and played in for the Dolphins, who happens to be one of the best coaches in the State, who is close with Peyton Manning and Dan Marino, SO yes I do have connections other than the "IMAGiINARY FRIENDS" you speak of. SECONDLY, I do not know WHY you are slamming Virginia and North Carolina kids, that just childish on your part, slamming high school kids, and just so happens that some of the best players in the country comes from those two states. More qoutes from MARKSHark "" I also love how you said that had we picked Wilson and used the 1st on an OL, we'd be in such a better situation (which anyone can now say) ----- then you say we should draft Winston and NOT pick an OL with our #5 this year..... huh?? See what I'm getting at? " " Seriously dude?? I meant that for that year, Its a weak OL class this year nobody strong enough to be picked in the top 5, but going back to our QB problem, we aren't going to be able to get to where we want to go unless we have a franchise QB, which I believe Jameis Winston is. So, yea we should take him in the first, and draft and OL in second. Changes from year to year dude. MarkShark "" I have played more football than you have watched (and/or played) in your life."" So have you played at a D-1 school and went on to play in the NFL ??? I hope so with the way you are talking. ""Also, Russell at #39 would have been a reach -- so even if you weren't lying, you'd still be wrong." " Are you *sh$t* me dude, what the hell are you talking about Russell at 39, would be a reach, that would be a damn steal. You were probably one of the ones slamming Russell Wilson before he got drafted just like you are slamming Jameis Winston now. Everybody knew he had just as much talent as anybody except for Luck, his only knock was his height which, was dumb because he played behind the biggest OL in college. But whatever dude, you know everything as I can see, never said Winston was just like Luck, but from a pocket passer, and skill standpoint he is the closest thing you are going to get. If you can't turn on the game tape and tell by the way he goes through his progressions and reads, that he is not the best QB coming out, and that has come out, the past coupled of years, like I said "other" than Andrew Luck than you do not know HALF of what you think you do. And as far as the Oregon game goes that was not on Jameis Winston. ""I wish I had more time to pick your post up, but I don't."" I do like this quote from you though. Thats whats up. I have said all I got to say. No need to be so serious lol. I like the debate though man. Its definately been a nice.

I want everyone on this board to know that they are witnessing a first on thehogs.net forum. I think cowboykillerzRGiii and deadskins will especially enjoy this, in particular.

I just can't keep this back and forth going. I'm done. My bet is this kid couldn't be more than 18 --- and writes like he's 12. He didn't even understand half of what I was saying. It is difficult to argue with crazy (there are better adjectives, but I don't want to get hurtful) --- especially when crazy don't realize they crazy. I don't believe a word this dude says about his "connections" and don't care about them, honestly. A guy with real connections doesn't boast about them on the internet. It will burn you; google is a dangerous thing.

I prefer to have my back and forths with people worth the time.

And dude, space out your sh#t.

KILO wrote:We don't need this kind of garbage on our team. We need to focus on building a core of offensive linemen and a defensive secondary that is not the worst in the league first. A late round QB to groom should be the focus.

first off - welcome to the site ..

I agree with you and now that we have a guy like Scot running things, the process of building this franchise will almost certainly change

we will soon see if Snyder and Allen are not involved anymore as a plan will be put together and players and coaches will be added that fit what the plan is and not just because of what the stupid owner thinks will 'work' best here ...

despite what some here (+ #47) think the O line is a disaster and the defense has got to be focus points before the QB issue is resolved ...

btw - old Redskins players should just STFU and behave better - you should be proud to have been able to wear the B&G

MarkShark,
If you want to google my coach or whoever go ahead. Whatever names you want I will email them to you. Never got on this board to boast about connections, you brought this up and made it a big deal. I brought the topic of Jameis Winston for people on here to consider and discuss considering our lack of QB play. BUT You slammed everything I said right off the bat. Calling everything I said into question and calling these people imaginary, which I think was childish. I have been on this board reading posts for years. Decided I would join the discussions, because everyone seemed to be mature and decent people. Everyone on this board except for you, posts appropriate an sensible posts. So yes I wrote a appropriate response to you calling me out over things you do not know, for whatever reason. I did not get on here to slam other peoples opinions. You turned this into something ridiculous. If you got better things to do WHY did you take the time to reply and HATE on my post in the first place??? I did not get on here to have a childish argument with you. So if you got better things to do then quit taking the time to slam other peoples topics of discussion. I think everyone would appreciate that.

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/

Here's what ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay said about Winston on a conference call Tuesday:

"He picks up football concepts quickly. He knows how to go through progression reads. He's comfortable in the pocket and can manipulate the pocket. He feels pressure coming. He's not the quickest QB, but he's mobile enough and strong enough to extend plays with his feet. He anticipates throws as well as any quarterback in the last couple drafts in terms of being inside the pocket."


"The funny thing about Jameis Winston is that he's a better fit for what the Washington Redskins want to do in the pass game. He has size, a strong arm and knows how to operate in the pocket -- all qualities prized by coach Jay Gruden. Griffin's SHORTCOMINGS are Winston's strengths. "

Ill end this thread with this...

I dont care what QB is available... our team does not need to ruin another rookie QB. Fix the o line and defense so ourqb doesnt get beat on and put in bad field position every time he gets the ball... THEN we can do whatever with a qb.

All we do is waste high round picks to draft qbs to get obliterated physically...and obliterate their confidence as part of it.

TrueRedskin11 wrote:MarkShark,
If you want to google my coach or whoever go ahead. Whatever names you want I will email them to you. Never got on this board to boast about connections, you brought this up and made it a big deal. I brought the topic of Jameis Winston for people on here to consider and discuss considering our lack of QB play. BUT You slammed everything I said right off the bat. Calling everything I said into question and calling these people imaginary, which I think was childish. I have been on this board reading posts for years. Decided I would join the discussions, because everyone seemed to be mature and decent people. Everyone on this board except for you, posts appropriate an sensible posts. So yes I wrote a appropriate response to you calling me out over things you do not know, for whatever reason. I did not get on here to slam other peoples opinions. You turned this into something ridiculous. If you got better things to do WHY did you take the time to reply and HATE on my post in the first place??? I did not get on here to have a childish argument with you. So if you got better things to do then quit taking the time to slam other peoples topics of discussion. I think everyone would appreciate that.

Boys, boys? Calm the heck down. Can we join hands and sing Kum Bah Yah now...? Come, I'll play the guitar.

Skin11, welcome to the boards.

Boys, boys? Calm the heck down. Can we join hands and sing Kum Bah Yah now...? Come, I'll play the guitar.

Skin11, welcome to the boards.[/quote]

TribeofJudah,

Thanks! glad to be on here. Been reading your guys post for years. This is my favorite site/board for Redskins news. You guys do a good job with the site.

Skins11, I take no credit for this site. Its all Boss Hog.

Glad u joined us here.

I understand the reasoning behind the decision for the Bucs to take Winston, I just don't agree that he will prove to be as valuable a QB as Mariota - I'm sure both will be prepared well and I'm sure Winston's going to be good, I just think Mariota will be better