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RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:17 am
by riggofan
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... oric-rate/Washington quarterback Robert Griffin III took sacks during the 2014 season like no other quarterback in the 21st Century.
Griffin was sacked 33 times last year while throwing only 214 passes. How rare is that? Not since Hugh Millen of the 1992 Patriots has a quarterback been sacked so many times while throwing so few passes.
It would be tempting to blame the offensive line any time a quarterback gets sacked that often, but in Griffin’s case it would be incorrect. Washington’s other two quarterbacks, Colt McCoy and Kirk Cousins, weren’t sacked as often as Griffin. McCoy was sacked 17 times while throwing 128 passes, and Cousins was sacked eight times while throwing 208 passes.
No, the problem with Griffin is that he isn’t good enough at getting rid of the ball when he’s under pressure. Griffin has been sacked at least 30 times in all three of his NFL seasons despite never throwing more than 456 passes in a year. (For comparison with a passer who’s good at getting rid of the ball, Peyton Manning has never been sacked 30 times in any of his 16 seasons despite always throwing at least 453 passes.)
As a rookie, the 30 sacks Griffin took just seemed like part of the cost of doing business for a quarterback who was so good at making plays with his legs that he ran for 815 yards. But this year, when Griffin took 33 sacks despite rushing for only 176 yards, it seems like he’s still trying to rely on his legs to get him out of trouble — but his legs aren’t getting the job done anymore. RG3’s sack rate is another reason to think that building him into a franchise quarterback is going to be a difficult, and maybe even impossible, job.
I have to say, while I think there is some truth in here, it also seems like kind of a hit piece. You don't have to be a math wizard to see that McCoys sack::pass attempt percentage is only marginally better than RGIII's.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:23 am
by DEHog
I've been saying this for a while...RG has zero pocket awareness, he rarely steps up in the pocket and take off running too soon, which results in him taking some pretty tough hits....how do you coach that?? I think that's why Jay came to his conclusion so quickly on him??
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:06 pm
by OldSchool
Griffin may be a bright young man in many respects but he doesn't process fast enough on a football field to play QB. It doesn't matter how strong his arm is if he can't read and react fast enough he won't be effective. After 3 years and 2 coaching staffs working with him and he looks clueless in the pocket. His legs covered his mental deficit in college and his first season in the NFL but it appears the tremendous lateral quickness that help him elude NFL defenders is gone and he's a sitting duck.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:18 pm
by riggofan
That comparison with Cousins is just mind blowing. 8 sacks in 208 passes v. 33 sacks in 214 passes. That's insane.
I thought maybe Cousins' turnovers accounted for the difference, but KC threw 9 INTs and lost 2 fumbles. RGIII threw 6 INTs and lost 5 fumbles.
I heard one of the criticisms of RGIII this year was that he was waiting for WRs to get open rather than throwing to the spot where they are supposed to be open. True?
He definitely is a smart guy IMO and obviously an incredible athlete. I keep hearing people say that he needs to work on his "mechanics" though which doesn't strike me as true. It seems to me like he needs to learn how to play QB in a pro style offense. That's probably a lot easier to learn playing at the college level than against NFL caliber players I would guess.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:05 am
by brad7686
Robert and colt took the sacks, Kirk threw to the other team, any way you slice it the line doesn't give ppl any time.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:49 am
by SkinsJock
brad7686 wrote:Robert & Colt took the sacks, Kirk threw to the other team, any way you slice it, the O line doesn't give a QB any time.
- oh no! that's not what we want to hear about here ....
I swear - some here are just not seeing how TOTALLY ineffective the Redskins O line play has been for a while now ...
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:54 am
by SkinsJock
The QBs here are ineffective but they all looked even worse than they are because this O line is close to the worst in the NFL
for those that think the O line was not so bad, let's just look at how many of those "not so bad" guys are playing here next season when the 3 QBs that were responsible for the bad play by those same guys still have jobs ...
btw - I'll help you remember ...
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:11 am
by DarthMonk
For what it's worth, we were 13th in total yards on offense and ran for over 100 ypg.
Griff bit the wang this year and a huge number of sacks and missed big plays are on him.
He did get hurt though. 'course, seems inevitable.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:02 am
by welch
I watched the second Dallas game carefully. If the Redskins had an OL, I didn't see it as soon as the ball was snapped. Ugly. Ugly. Compare Redskins DL+ LBs: no pressure unless they blitzed everybody.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:56 am
by SkinsJock
welcome to the dark side ...
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:46 am
by DarthMonk
The Eagles lost 2 linemen to IR and another for half the season. Foles and Sanchez attempted 621 passes. They took 32 sacks.
Our line was virtually uninjured. Griff attempted 214 passes. He took 33 sacks.
2 to 5 times every game, I saw Griff ignore wide open guys, pull the ball down, scramble, and take a sack.
I was as big a Griff fan as there was on this board (even wrote a song for him) but I do not accept that our line is so bad that it is responsible for more sacks than and Eagle line with 3/5 of its starters out in less than 35% of the pass attempts - especially when I see Griff ignore wide open guys and that same line has us at 13th in total offense.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:37 pm
by StorminMormon86
DarthMonk wrote:The Eagles lost 2 linemen to IR and another for half the season. Foles and Sanchez attempted 621 passes. They took 32 sacks.
Our line was virtually uninjured. Griff attempted 214 passes. He took 33 sacks.
2 to 5 times every game, I saw Griff ignore wide open guys, pull the ball down, scramble, and take a sack.
I was as big a Griff fan as there was on this board (even wrote a song for him) but I do not accept that our line is so bad that it is responsible for more sacks than and Eagle line with 3/5 of its starters out in less than 35% of the pass attempts - especially when I see Griff ignore wide open guys and that same line has us at 13th in total offense.
Somebody gets it!
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:59 pm
by riggofan
brad7686 wrote:Robert and colt took the sacks, Kirk threw to the other team, any way you slice it the line doesn't give ppl any time.
I originally thought that was the case too, but Cousins only threw three more INTs than RGIII did.
I agree with what you're saying about the line not giving the QB much time. Its not a
great line by any stretch of the imagination. If we have to wait until we have five pro-bowlers on the o-line though before RGIII is going to be capable of passing from the pocket, then we're more screwed than I thought.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:06 pm
by riggofan
StorminMormon86 wrote:DarthMonk wrote:The Eagles lost 2 linemen to IR and another for half the season. Foles and Sanchez attempted 621 passes. They took 32 sacks.
Our line was virtually uninjured. Griff attempted 214 passes. He took 33 sacks.
2 to 5 times every game, I saw Griff ignore wide open guys, pull the ball down, scramble, and take a sack.
I was as big a Griff fan as there was on this board (even wrote a song for him) but I do not accept that our line is so bad that it is responsible for more sacks than and Eagle line with 3/5 of its starters out in less than 35% of the pass attempts - especially when I see Griff ignore wide open guys and that same line has us at 13th in total offense.
Somebody gets it!
Exactly. People act like we have some historically bad offensive line. There are plenty of other teams out there like the Eagles, Broncos, etc; who are playing with patchwork, problematic offensive lines. We just have a mediocre line that looks even worse because: 1) our QB can't pass from the pocket and 2) our defense was so bad, playing from behind made it less possible for us to run the ball.
Those sack comparison numbers are insane, DM.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:50 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
Ya... somebody doesnt get how weak our depth chart is compared to those teams, whom also have winning records.
Our patchwork cant be compared to theirs, as our backups would NOT make THEIR practice squads.
Im not denying Griff held on to long, though there were plenty of 1.5 sec sacks in which he was screwed, but lets not pretend we are on the Broncos or GBs level of oline depth. Half our STARTERS wouldnt make their team for back ups!!!
Interesting how Kirk actually had the healthiest line, where Robert had TW go down Liche, Lovou, All in one game! Even Mosses got hurt- some snaps idk wtf they even put in!
So while this picture is accurate to a degree, some people are missing the big picture; our oline sucks and our depth is worse. Sacks injuries and ints is avout what you fet bwhind this porous oline- oh and a decline in one of the franchise's Best RBS ever.. smmfh
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:45 am
by welch
A playoff OL: Redskins 1991: Mark Addickes and Russ Grimm as backups. Both former pro-bowlers but neither a regular because of bad knees. Still, I remember one opponent complaining that just when they knocked a Redskin regular out of a game, on came Addickes or Grimm. "Unfair".
A hopeless OL: 2014 Redskins. One real starter; one or two mediocre starters; a couple of horrendous starters; backups even worse.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:42 am
by OldSchool
It would be interesting to see how Griffin, McCoy and Cousins performed with an excellent line in front them. Each of the QBs would be helped of course because a great line would improve the running game but I think a stronger line could probably help McCoy and Cousins more in the passing game than Griffin. I could be totally wrong but I question if a great line would be able to slow things enough for Griffin, I think he needs more than the extra half a second or second a great OL could provide to figure things out. I might be wrong but I think if Cousins really had an extra .5 or 1 second he might slow down to let the play develop and the defense reveal itself bit more before pulling the trigger maybe that would help him reduce the picks. Perhaps that would make a big difference for and McCoy as well.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:59 pm
by riggofan
Dudes, nobody is arguing that the offensive line is especially good. Their weaknesses are just exacerbated by RGIII's play. Its the worst possible scenario.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:40 pm
by welch
I happened to count the seconds before Romo threw the winning TD. About six seconds. I was at four or five when he stepped to his right. Receiver had time to runs the route, finish, then turn and run lateral to the goal line.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:13 pm
by DarthMonk
welch wrote:I happened to count the seconds before Romo threw the winning TD. About six seconds. I was at four or five when he stepped to his right. Receiver had time to runs the route, finish, then turn and run lateral to the goal line.
Dealt with his share of jailbreaks too. Remember the play where he immediately threw to Beasly upon receiving the snap cuz he saw a jailbreak coming and it went for 15 and a first down?
If you are saying their line is better than ours, I agree. So is their QB. He took 6 sacks but in the meantime went 19-31 with 2 TDs. He rarely went backwards. He went forwards and sideways and kept looking downfield. Hate him but he's good.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:09 pm
by SkinsJock
no offense can be effective with an offensive line that was as ineffective as the one we had this season
and
no offense can be effective with QB play like we had this season from all 3 QBs, but it would not matter who was playing QB
using stats to 'support' this O line is pathetic - you only had to watch them play - the stats are misleading, big time
we can debate/argue all you want - we need better play from the QB and we cannot play offense with an offensive line like this one
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:58 pm
by riggofan
SkinsJock wrote:we can debate/argue all you want - we need better play from the QB and we cannot play offense with an offensive line like this one
Well you're right on one of those points.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:24 pm
by markshark84
OldSchool wrote:Griffin may be a bright young man in many respects but he doesn't process fast enough on a football field to play QB.
This is my take as well.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:36 pm
by DarthMonk
SkinsJock wrote:no offense can be effective with an offensive line that was as ineffective as the one we had this season
and
no offense can be effective with QB play like we had this season from all 3 QBs, but it would not matter who was playing QB
using stats to 'support' this O line is pathetic - you only had to watch them play - the stats are misleading, big time
we can debate/argue all you want - we need better play from the QB and we cannot play offense with an offensive line like this one
I have no stats - only my eyes and experience - for this claim.
If we could go back to August 1, trade our owner, FO, staff, and Griff for Green Bay's owner, FO, staff, and Rodgers, we would have had a winning record and Green Bay would not have. DJax and Garcon would have lit it up and Nelson and Cobb would've struggled. Griff would have been pulling the ball down and scrambling at the first sign of trouble while Rodgers would've been pulling the trigger quickly when needed and sliding around and finding something better when he had time.
Griff would've made their OK o-line look bad and Rodgers would've made our OK o-line look good.
Re: RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:39 pm
by SkinsJock
OK, it's fantasy time - DM, we would not have even needed to go through all that BS you just posted if Dan Snyder, in 2011, had brought in a real GM to manage all of our personnel moves
GUARANTEED, because it's a fact ....
we would not have had such a terrible O line here and would most likely be in the playoffs against the Packers this weekend
I like this ...