The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Curious what everyones definition of a turn around or success is here.

After reading a bunch of threads and posts, most of which laying out how we will either never be successful, or how itll take many many years, I feel like everyones definition is different.

For me, a turnaround, and success, is achievable as soon as next season. I define it as being competitive in the games we play despite wins or losses. When we lose games it not being for dozens of reasons, but rather us just getting outplayed during a few key moments, or having a few too many penalties (as opposed to the complete ineffectiveness of any combination of offense/defense/special teams) and the elimination of the self created media circus of the blame game, rg3, or people inside the organization leaking information.

So, while a winning record would be nice... I could still consider a losing record a successful season.... as long as we look like we know what we are doing and have a plan.... but just need to execute it better, and fill in some key skill positions.

Success =
Snyder: On a yacht
Polian: given a blank check to run ALL things football related
Bruce: VP of ______ Relations

My expectations going into 2015 are going to be much lower than in 2014. I will consider 2015 a success if the Skins made sound moves to improve the defense and offensive line in free agency and the draft and their choices pan out. Draft smart meat and potatoes guys for the OL and defensive backfield is what I hope to see and than there must be a real open QB competition and it is evident that Gruden really is free to pick a winner. The Skins win 6+ games and are more competitive throughout.

Prowl33 wrote:For me, a turnaround, and success, is achievable as soon as next season. I define it as being competitive in the games we play despite wins or losses.

Its a really low bar but I'm right there with you. There have been too many games the past two years especially where we just look completely over matched.

Prowl33 wrote:Curious what everyones definition of a turn around or success is here.

After reading a bunch of threads and posts, most of which laying out how we will either never be successful, or how itll take many many years, I feel like everyones definition is different.

For me, a turnaround, and success, is achievable as soon as next season. I define it as being competitive in the games we play despite wins or losses. When we lose games it not being for dozens of reasons, but rather us just getting outplayed during a few key moments, or having a few too many penalties (as opposed to the complete ineffectiveness of any combination of offense/defense/special teams) and the elimination of the self created media circus of the blame game, rg3, or people inside the organization leaking information.

So, while a winning record would be nice... I could still consider a losing record a successful season.... as long as we look like we know what we are doing and have a plan.... but just need to execute it better, and fill in some key skill positions.

This post reads as the attitude of the Redskins organization would like the fan base to believe.

Win or lose! Sure.

a turn around as soon as next season! Sure.

a losing record is still a success! Sure.

As long as you pay. As long as you watch. As long as you attend. Hell, as long as you have any interest left whatsoever.

Fascinating, this will be painful but it will still be a success. Either somebody has an economic stake or masochism becomes the flavour of the day.

Why not tell the truth? No, the Redskins will not have a successful season. They MIGHT have a rebuilding season. A good or bad one? Well, it depends on the front office and new coaching decisions. The best scenario is progress. That best scenario is NOT success. Success is a Division Championship but for this dysfunctional organization anything out of last place which keeps fans interest is "success".

Enjoy your "success".

Success as defined by the Redskins' organization is what Snyder has achieved over 16 years - there are still fans that think the product on the field will be 'better' if we can just add a few good players and coaches

this organization has proven it is incapable of improving the product on the field - why should that change under the current 'system'

this organization will be 'successful' if there are fans that think there's a chance that this franchise can improve while not doing anything that can make that a reality

I love how so many fans here are thinking that we just need to add a few key players here each year and find a good DC - that is BS

I love how ex players can point to this player or that coach as being part of the reason that things are not going well

it's not the players or the coaches - these guys are incredibly talented

it's the fact that there is no plan and nobody in charge of brining in players or coaches that can turn things around here


NOTHING changes here unless we make huge changes at the top of the organization

WAKE UP PEOPLE - accept that nothing will change while this owner continues to manage and interfere

Redskin in Canada wrote:a turn around as soon as next season! Sure.

I think you have to look at what he's defining as a turnaround. If a turnaround is being competitive in more games than we were last year then yeah sure its possible.

SkinsJock wrote:NOTHING changes here unless we make huge changes at the top of the organization

WAKE UP PEOPLE - accept that nothing will change while this owner continues to manage and interfere

Is this just going to be your answer for every topic of discussion for the next year?

Question: so who do you think the Skins will draft tomorrow?
SJ Answer: IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE DAN SNYDER.

Question: Which uniform combination would you like to see the team wear next year?
SJ: WAKE UP PEOPLE. DAN SNYDER IS HERE.

lol. Seriously, have a drink, wake up tomorrow and realize its just a football team we're talking about. Dude hasn't been right since RGIII got benched.

We've won 7 games in the past 2 years. I'll be satisfied with 7 next year.

this franchise could win 16 games next season but it's absolutely not possible if Dan Snyder is still a part of the personnel process

we might win 7 games next season but we will have to be incredibly lucky because we are NOT going to be good enough to do that

you can bet that we will have a better win total than this season but not by much with the way this franchise is managed

however, it will be a 'successful' season by comparison and we almost certainly are going to 'win' the off season title again

isn't this fun .....

yupchagee wrote:We've won 7 games in the past 2 years. I'll be satisfied with 7 next year.

Me too. If we win seven games, have young talent distributed across the roster, and one less unit that looks like it needs wholesale replacement, then I'll count that as a season where we've made significant strides. The next year expectations go up again.

I'm sure that we'll all be excited before next season and our expectations will be anywhere from 6 to 9 wins - with at least 2 or 3 posters looking for 11 or more wins here after we "win" the off season award again

after all a 16 win, regular season record is still possible and will be so for another 8 months

Irn-Bru wrote:

yupchagee wrote:We've won 7 games in the past 2 years. I'll be satisfied with 7 next year.

Me too. If we win seven games, have young talent distributed across the roster, and one less unit that looks like it needs wholesale replacement, then I'll count that as a season where we've made significant strides. The next year expectations go up again.

Anything resembling progress would be a success at this point!

Well Polian is rumored to be interested in returning to the NFL…I’d make a big push for him!!! But I doubt he would have any interest here…rumor has him returning to Buffalo.

As for our Skins, the future starts with admitting you’re a very poorly run football team/organization. I may be wrong but to me the Skins act like they are a perennial playoff team, they aren’t even a perennial playoff contender!! The formula for success just doesn’t seem that difficult to me. It’s a copycat league; they’re plenty of examples to follow. When you look at organizations like the Pats, Steelers, Ravens and now even the Hawks its not that they draft BETTER than us, it’s that they draft MORE than us. I don’t know the numbers but I’d be willing to bet that the percentage of players drafted (who play meaningful years) by those teams is similar to the ones we draft. It’s just that while we are drafting 3 to 7 players a year they are drafting upward of 10 to a dozen. Common sense tells you the more players you draft the better chance you have of finding contributors to your football team…I think Shanahan proved that. This organization, for whatever reason, hasn’t had the patients to build through the draft. The model has been that we are only a few players away and we go out and make the big slash, for the life of me I don’t understand why or who believes that will work. We have one common denominator, which is Snyder. Bashing Snyder is to easy and I don’t want this to turn into another bashing Snyder post. I refuse to believe that he wants to make money more than he wants to win as they aren’t mutually exclusive. I do believe he is still to much involved in the day to day operations of the football side of the organization and needs to pull back bit. Bottom line is we must build this team through the draft, I’m will to suffer some more losing to set the franchise on a better course. I think the fan base has certainly shown they are willing to suffer…

Thanks DEHog - well put ...

DEHog wrote: .... As for our Skins, the future starts with admitting you’re a very poorly run football team/organization. I may be wrong but to me the Skins act like they are a perennial playoff team, they aren’t even a perennial playoff contender!! The formula for success just doesn’t seem that difficult to me. It’s a copycat league; they’re plenty of examples to follow. When you look at organizations like the Pats, Steelers, Ravens and now even the Hawks its not that they draft BETTER than us, it’s that they draft MORE than us. I don’t know the numbers but I’d be willing to bet that the percentage of players drafted (who play meaningful years) by those teams is similar to the ones we draft. It’s just that while we are drafting 3 to 7 players a year they are drafting upward of 10 to a dozen. Common sense tells you the more players you draft the better chance you have of finding contributors to your football team…I think Shanahan proved that. This organization, for whatever reason, hasn’t had the patience to build through the draft. The model has been that we are only a few players away and we go out and make the big slash, for the life of me I don’t understand why or who believes that will work. We have one common denominator, which is Snyder. Bashing Snyder is to easy and I don’t want this to turn into another bashing Snyder post. I refuse to believe that he wants to make money more than he wants to win as they aren’t mutually exclusive. I do believe he is still to much involved in the day to day operations of the football side of the organization and needs to pull back a bit. Bottom line is we must build this team through the draft, I’m will to suffer some more losing to set the franchise on a better course. I think the fan base has certainly shown they are willing to suffer.

there are a few of us that know it's not that Snyder does not want to make the franchise better - he does, he just doesn't have a clue how
however, he has proven that this franchise will NOT be successful while he is involved in the day to day operations

it really does not matter whom we draft or how many we draft (or who the HC, OC or DC is) as long as Snyder remains 'involved'

it's that simple ...

DEHog wrote:Well Polian is rumored to be interested in returning to the NFL…I’d make a big push for him!!! But I doubt he would have any interest here…rumor has him returning to Buffalo.

Oddly enough he turned down Buffalo - apparently because they couldn't agree on the $$.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ver-money/

DEHog wrote: ... Polian is rumored to be interested in returning to the NFL - I’d make a big push for him!!! But I doubt he would have any interest here ...

+ 1 - IMO - nobody 'good' is coming here for any amount of money unless they can get Dan to agree to let them have total control

I don't think he knows that he has to do that .... yet

2015 DC is going to be Raheem Morris. I don't want to be right on this one, but I got a feeling it's going to happen.

StorminMormon86 wrote:2015 DC is going to be Raheem Morris. I don't want to be right on this one, but I got a feeling it's going to happen.

Would be the worst decision they could make... lets take the coach of the worst position on the team and promote him....

DEHog wrote:As for our Skins, the future starts with admitting you’re a very poorly run football team/organization. I may be wrong but to me the Skins act like they are a perennial playoff team, they aren’t even a perennial playoff contender!!

I have no idea what this means. Did something about the team's mentality or the way they carried themselves on the field scream "we're a perennial playoff team" to you this year? Did anything Snyder or Bruce Allen said give you that impression? Anything Gruden said? Everyone top to bottom appears to recognize that we are a team who has lost more than won in recent years and is looking to "right the ship" (to borrow a phrase the organization likes to use).

I do not get the same impression as you from the Redskins at all.

The formula for success just doesn’t seem that difficult to me. It’s a copycat league; they’re plenty of examples to follow. When you look at organizations like the Pats, Steelers, Ravens and now even the Hawks its not that they draft BETTER than us, it’s that they draft MORE than us.

I disagree; it's definitely that they draft better than us.

Total draft picks, 2010-2014:
Ravens: 42
Steelers: 44
Patriots: 44
Seahawks: 48

Redskins: 42

Are you telling me that 2 extra players over the course of five years is what has made the difference in depth and talent between some of the league's best teams and the Redskins?

Something else to consider, total draft picks during the same time period of selected interesting good/bad teams:

Vikings: 47
Texans: 44
Cowboys: 37
Saints: 27

If you are looking for correlations, it seems to me like a smart head coach + QB has a much higher match with the good teams than something like "lots of draft picks."

I don’t know the numbers but I’d be willing to bet that the percentage of players drafted (who play meaningful years) by those teams is similar to the ones we draft.

It might be worth checking out the numbers to figure this out, rather than dismissing the idea. We've had some years where almost no players make any impact and almost all are gone within 2-3 seasons. When you look at the Ravens recent drafts, most all of their picks are at least contributors to a team that is considered to have decent talent generally. That tells me that there is a quality dimension to this which you may be leaving out.

It’s just that while we are drafting 3 to 7 players a year they are drafting upward of 10 to a dozen.

Your info is outdated. I think you have in mind the 2006 Redskins, not the 2014 Redskins.

This organization, for whatever reason, hasn’t had the patients to build through the draft.

I'm not sure what this means. We've drafted as many players as some of the big boys. Are you saying that we didn't give some of those players enough of a chance to be starters on the team, choosing instead to go after free agents? Who do you have in mind?

The model has been that we are only a few players away and we go out and make the big slash, for the life of me I don’t understand why or who believes that will work.

Again, 2006 Redskins, not 2014.

Look, I sympathize with a lot of what you say, DEHog, but your winning formula reminds me of Homer Simpson's investment advice: "I like to buy low and sell high." Easy to say, but the real question is how to do it.

Good numbers re: the draft. I would argue though that they're a little misleading because of all of those high round draft picks we traded away. Obviously our abundance of fifth and sixth round picks doesn't make up for the guys we might have drafted in the first and second rounds. (Although to be fair still, we were lucky to hit on some late round guys like Morris.)

Prowl33 wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:2015 DC is going to be Raheem Morris. I don't want to be right on this one, but I got a feeling it's going to happen.

Would be the worst decision they could make... lets take the coach of the worst position on the team and promote him....

Yeah I hope this doesn't happen either. Not so much because of the secondary, but moving Morris up doesn't seem to be much of a change.

I actually don't think he's going to get the DC job. From the sounds of it, they're uncertain right now if he's going to be back with the team in any capacity.

riggofan wrote:Good numbers re: the draft. I would argue though that they're a little misleading because of all of those high round draft picks we traded away. Obviously our abundance of fifth and sixth round picks doesn't make up for the guys we might have drafted in the first and second rounds. (Although to be fair still, we were lucky to hit on some late round guys like Morris.)

Someone with initiative could run the numbers in a weighted fashion and see what comes up, but I honestly don't think it will make that much of a difference. Having briefly looked through each teams picks myself, I noticed that other teams were missing higher picks or loaded with 7s at least as often as we were.

That's why I think good draft picking is at least as important as quantity (and even quantity of high or mid-range picks). Say we have five picks in the 6th and 7th rounds; if we end up picking three guys who wouldn't have been drafted by another team, what does it really matter? The point is to use picks to maximize value, to lock in high-level talent at any position as much as possible, and to make some gambles on players with potential — players whom we wouldn't be able to acquire other than by using a pick.

Most likely for DC right now is Wade Phillips. He previously coached under AJ Smith as a DC, and his son is our TE coach. Seeing as how the skins always go with personal ties to current staff, this is the most likely decision.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/20 ... nator-job/

And there it is... his interview has been scheduled. No doubt in my mind he is our next DC