The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

This article had a good breakdown with pictures of our line.
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/23 ... ion-issues

Ive watched all of Grudens press conferences and ge tries to spread the blame between all parties... hes a pretty straight shooter which I love about him but im pretty sure hes just trying to keep from completely crushing any confidence they may have.

So... question is, should we replace them all, new o line coach and all? Are there any cons to doing a complete overhaul?

Personally, I say do it. Lets get some big guys in there, some fresh blood that has not experienced our troubles, and start camp with a new mindset and expectation. This issue is much bigger than the QB issue, you could plug in peyton manning, aaron rodgers, brady.... they may do a little better, but they will still get crushed and lose games.

I don't think it's a matter of blowing up the O line - some of the players were not really suited for the offense that Gruden and McVay want to run and I'm sure they are working towards that and some of the players that are on the roster will be staying because they can help
we need to do a better job of adding players all across this roster and while we have all our draft picks and most likely we will be very active in the FA market, it takes time and you need to get lucky, because a lot of players are very talented but just don't fit

to say that we have a terrible O line (I have!) is not really true - there are some that are just not suited for this offense is all

Blow it up. This line is terrible- for what we need them to do- pass protect

Blowing it up is just an expression of frustration

the line needs players that are suited to execute Jay's scheme not Kyle & Mike's scheme - there are players on the roster that might fit

I don't see why you would blow it all up when all that needs to happen is to find players that suit what Gruden needs

I'm for not having any O lineman that are not suited to our offensive scheme

Its not really a question of SHOULD WE, its a question of CAN WE. Its just easier said than done. If there were guys readily available who "better suit our offensive scheme", don't you think we would bring those guys in???

If we want to win a SUPER BOWL. Let's just look at lines as a unit in our own division. Of course this is just my opinions on how they rank.

Top NFC EAST OLINES
1. Dallas
2. Philadelphia
3. New York
4. Washington

You may have a case and say we have just as good of a line as the Giants but not comparable to Dallas and Philly. No coincidence that records for all our ball clubs align with oline rankings.

Defenders of our oline will say a lot of it is on the qb and te's/fb/rb blocking and the line is serviceable. I say when did serviceable ever when anything? There is no oline in the history of the game that won a Super Bowl just being "average".

I've been saying this for quite sometime and have been laughed at by some because apparently all knowing Chris ey says otherwise. there is no reason we can't blow the whole thing up this offseason. It may lead to some growing pains early in the season, but we will be better off as the season progresses. I believe Iupati is a FA, and would easily be the best G on the board. Sign him and draft the best T in round 1 and throw him at RT. Draft a C in round 2 or 3 and let LeRibus, Moses, and Long fight it out for the LG spot. Easier said then done, but there's no reason we can't explore replacing eveyone but Trent.

there is no way this offense can work with this offensive line - this line is basically ineffective for the current Redskins offense

we do have some players that we are hoping will be able to help next season and we will no doubt get some more


this offensive line was a big part of:

the ineptitude and almost complete failure of the offense on 3rd down

Alfred Morris not being the RB he is capable of

the poor play of the QBs

Trent Williams is a really good offensive lineman

PAPDOG67 wrote:I've been saying this for quite sometime and have been laughed at by some because apparently all knowing Chris ey says otherwise. there is no reason we can't blow the whole thing up this offseason. It may lead to some growing pains early in the season, but we will be better off as the season progresses. I believe Iupati is a FA, and would easily be the best G on the board. Sign him and draft the best T in round 1 and throw him at RT. Draft a C in round 2 or 3 and let LeRibus, Moses, and Long fight it out for the LG spot. Easier said then done, but there's no reason we can't explore replacing eveyone but Trent.

I did not know that we had 2 picks in the first round - we are NOT using our top pick on an offensive player

I've long advocated getting a good offensive line but just bringing in new players is only the beginning - it's going to take more than a season for them to become decent

however ... almost anyone should be better than what we've been seeing from our O line recently

PAPDOG67 wrote:I've been saying this for quite sometime and have been laughed at by some because apparently all knowing Chris ey says otherwise. there is no reason we can't blow the whole thing up this offseason. It may lead to some growing pains early in the season, but we will be better off as the season progresses. I believe Iupati is a FA, and would easily be the best G on the board. Sign him and draft the best T in round 1 and throw him at RT. Draft a C in round 2 or 3 and let LeRibus, Moses, and Long fight it out for the LG spot. Easier said then done, but there's no reason we can't explore replacing eveyone but Trent.

Iupati is good but we would have to overpay for just a "good" player that we could draft of similar talent in the 2nd round. I would overpay for a solid RT though, they don't come around too often.

We need a lot though. I think we should blow it up coaches and all.

PAPDOG67 wrote:I've been saying this for quite sometime and have been laughed at by some because apparently all knowing Chris ey says otherwise. there is no reason we can't blow the whole thing up this offseason. It may lead to some growing pains early in the season, but we will be better off as the season progresses. I believe Iupati is a FA, and would easily be the best G on the board. Sign him and draft the best T in round 1 and throw him at RT. Draft a C in round 2 or 3 and let LeRibus, Moses, and Long fight it out for the LG spot. Easier said then done, but there's no reason we can't explore replacing eveyone but Trent.

I don't have a problem with rebuilding the offensive line, but your post illustrates the "easier said" part. Nobody drafts a C in the second or third round and starts him that year. That's a pipe dream. If we take a first round RT, you *might* get somebody who can start that year, but I'm pretty much in agreement with SJ on that one. If we're picking in the top ten, I think we'll go defense with that pick.

LeRib was drafted three years in the third round and STILL can't break into the lineup. Why would we expect he is an upgrade or is a better fit for Gruden or whatever?

Moses is going to miss all of the offseason and all of training camp with the Lisfranc injury. You're not going to see him next year.

The team was hyping up Long all offseason, but again, this is a guy who hasn't been able to break into the starting lineup.

No quick fixes to this mess. I agree with your overall comment though that we have to invest in the line, upgrade as much as we can, and expect that its going to be painful.

mastdark81 wrote:

PAPDOG67 wrote:I've been saying this for quite sometime and have been laughed at by some because apparently all knowing Chris ey says otherwise. there is no reason we can't blow the whole thing up this offseason. It may lead to some growing pains early in the season, but we will be better off as the season progresses. I believe Iupati is a FA, and would easily be the best G on the board. Sign him and draft the best T in round 1 and throw him at RT. Draft a C in round 2 or 3 and let LeRibus, Moses, and Long fight it out for the LG spot. Easier said then done, but there's no reason we can't explore replacing eveyone but Trent.

Iupati is good but we would have to overpay for just a "good" player that we could draft of similar talent in the 2nd round. I would overpay for a solid RT though, they don't come around too often.

We need a lot though. I think we should blow it up coaches and all.

Iupati has been one of the best OG in the game since he's been drafted. He is far better than just "good". He would be a MAJOR upgrade and give our line some nastiness.

Williams is a star and Lauvao is solid. ey seems to think that Compton is a long-term answer at RT — but I haven't watched closely enough to know myself.

We need someone more effective than Chester at RG. I haven't noticed Lichtensteiger one way or the other this year.

So by my count, we definitely need one new starter, and possibly two or three total, though I doubt we really need three new linemen.

Anyway, I guess that puts me firmly in the "no" camp in answer to the thread's question.

Prowl33 wrote:This article had a good breakdown with pictures of our line.
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/23 ... ion-issues

Ive watched all of Grudens press conferences and ge tries to spread the blame between all parties... hes a pretty straight shooter which I love about him but im pretty sure hes just trying to keep from completely crushing any confidence they may have.

So... question is, should we replace them all, new o line coach and all? Are there any cons to doing a complete overhaul?

Personally, I say do it. Lets get some big guys in there, some fresh blood that has not experienced our troubles, and start camp with a new mindset and expectation. This issue is much bigger than the QB issue, you could plug in peyton manning, aaron rodgers, brady.... they may do a little better, but they will still get crushed and lose games.

My answer to the question posed by the thread is "If we can sign better guys - including Trent - yes."

Given the cap and the draft, I'd say the most we can replace from outside the current roster is 2 spots. So a few guys we already have need to step up or we are likely to run with at least 3 of the current 5. Unless the teams in front of us get real smart and draft linemen, I'd use our first pick on one and try to replace our RG.

There is no reason to make replacing Licht any kind of priority. We are set at LT and C. LG and RT are adequate.

I think a very good RG combined with decisive QB play would have us all saying this line is not bad at all. Better D and Specials would also take a lot of pressure away from the offense.

RT has been far from adequate. The entire right side of the line has been terrible this season.

I really don't think that it's feasible to just start over - I do think we'll see a new RT and RG

we just need better depth, actually, we need better depth along both lines

If we dont trade down we will likely draft a pass rusher or db. I havent researched our options yet but I am in favor of trading down for additional high round picks, as we need not only starters but depth on the line and in our defensive backfield.

Blowing it up completely may not be realistic, but I think all positions need to be looked at, and replacing 3 starters on the line between draft and FA I think is realistic.

People dont think, our line influences EVERYTHING. If the line isnt protecting we need to bring in TEs and RBs to block. That means less pass targets, that means more men covering less targets, that makes it take longer to find a target, and you have shorter time to do it in. Then that puts our defense on the field more, and with a shorter field to defend. So 1 aspect of the game can effect all others even our defense and special teams.

Excellent point Prowl33. One only needs to look at the Cowgirls to see this. Their defense still stinks in the grand scheme of things, but they are not on the field as much this year due to the offense controlling the ball. I think our D on the front 7 is good. We desperately need safety help. and help along the O line. I would venuture to say the overall production from our O-line and safties is probably either dead last or in the bottom 5.

Irn-Bru wrote:Williams is a star and Lauvao is solid.

Is that true about Lauvao? I feel like I've been hearing all season that he was a disappointment and not a great FA signing.

Its interesting to note what a wild difference of opinion there is about who needs to go on the line. (I've read and heard mostly positive things about Lichtensteiger this season.) Seems like the only position people are in complete agreement on is RG, and if Spencer Long is ready to go next year we may already have the player there.

I think RT is probably the position we most need to fix. Its been a problem going back to Jammal Brown. Not sure I buy ey's argument that Tom Compton is the answer. I was hoping it would be Morgan Moses, but that doesn't look likely next year.

Prowl33 wrote:If we dont trade down we will likely draft a pass rusher or db. I havent researched our options yet but I am in favor of trading down for additional high round picks, as we need not only starters but depth on the line and in our defensive backfield.

Agree. I'd be happy to trade down in the first round if we can pick up some additional picks.

I think that if we can just make sure we get a solid RT, it would be a good start - the O line is going to be better next season

I do think we need to add 1 good defensive lineman as well - Safety is a must - I'm hoping we take L. Collins at 5 or 6

SkinsJock wrote:I think that if we can just make sure we get a solid RT, it would be a good start - the O line is going to be better next season

I do think we need to add 1 good defensive lineman as well - Safety is a must - I'm hoping we take L. Collins at 5 or 6

Yeah, if we're picking at #5, I want a can't miss, impact play maker.

I don't want to get wildly off track from the original question, but can anybody comment on the possibility of going back to the 4-3 on defense next year? Would we be in any better shape with the players we have?

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I think that if we can just make sure we get a solid RT, it would be a good start - the O line is going to be better next season

I do think we need to add 1 good defensive lineman as well - Safety is a must - I'm hoping we take L. Collins at 5 or 6

Yeah, if we're picking at #5, I want a can't miss, impact play maker.

I don't want to get wildly off track from the original question, but can anybody comment on the possibility of going back to the 4-3 on defense next year? Would we be in any better shape with the players we have?

Our current personnel is better suited for 3-4. We need a star pash rusher on the right side and kerrigan is great on the left. If we can do that, and get a beast of a player to aff in on the line, we shouldnt need to blitz, and our 2 middle linebackers can stay in coverage.

I think Lichtenstieger had a solid season, whenever he was out due to injury the play suffered. RT is the problem, no question, didn't we get a rookie last year that they've been bringing along on the practice squad? We need to fill positions from within rather than looking for starters.
I guess they've given up on Polumbus, he just can't react quick enough? too bad, he's got the size to anchor that side of the line.
We need a better backup for Williams too, when he was out the replacement didn't play with confidence or authority. He might come around, he earned that spot.

The OL needs upgrading but I don't what positions are substandard.