The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

With all the Brian Orakpo talk this year, thought about our linebacker Kerrigan and his development as a starter.

Ryan Kerrigan was selected 16th overall,and play on the side of the weaker RT for the most part.

You would think that when Orakpo became an unrestricted free-agent that the organization could see Ryan moving into Rak's spot, as a former 1st round talent himself and could use this as leverage.

I think he had played well when healthy with good playmaking ability, however Kerrigan has only reached a high of 8.5 sacks in his 3 years with us. Why haven't I heard the criticism of him not reaching elite level of 15+ sacks when he was drafted essentially close to same pick to Orakpo (13th overall)?

Gonna be tough to keep both guys on new long term contracts.

mastdark81 wrote: Why haven't I heard the criticism of him not reaching elite level of 15+ sacks when he was drafted essentially close to same pick to Orakpo (13th overall)?

Was Kerrigan brought in as a pass rush specialist? I don't think so... He's a good pass rusher, but that's not his strength... he's just not that fast. Orakpo, OTOH, made a living sacking quarterbacks.

Ask yourself this... seems to me that teams tend to not run wide receiver or halfback screens towards Kerrigan's side of the field... why is that?
I'm thinking that Kerrigan is a more complete player than Orakpo... he is less effective than Orakpo ONLY if the ONLY criteria you use is sacks... in which case you are missing an awful lot of what Kerrigan brings.

Very tough to keep both, but I really hope that we do. I really don't want to watch either be the awesome players I think they are and will be, somewhere else.

Countertrey wrote:

mastdark81 wrote: Why haven't I heard the criticism of him not reaching elite level of 15+ sacks when he was drafted essentially close to same pick to Orakpo (13th overall)?

Was Kerrigan brought in as a pass rush specialist? I don't think so... He's a good pass rusher, but that's not his strength... he's just not that fast. Orakpo, OTOH, made a living sacking quarterbacks.

Ask yourself this... seems to me that teams tend to not run wide receiver or halfback screens towards Kerrigan's side of the field... why is that?
I'm thinking that Kerrigan is a more complete player than Orakpo... he is less effective than Orakpo ONLY if the ONLY criteria you use is sacks... in which case you are missing an awful lot of what Kerrigan brings.

With the 16th pick in the draft I think they did see him as someone who can be a pass rush specialist. Now yes he doesnt have the athletic ability as Orakpo but he appears smarter and more instinctive so I hold him accountable as a 1st rd pick to get lots of sacks...besides he is going against the lesser talented tackle. He seems to stay in good shape, doesnt miss any games but on 3rd down he will need to sack the qb more in my opinion.

I didnt notice but i would imagine he is better against screens. I truly feel he may be better suited at end but who knows. Just wanted to start a discussion on him and how people grade him out. Its been 3years. They say you cant fully evaluate a player until after the 3rd year.

If the Redskins draft an OLB in 2nd or 3rd rd. You think this is for depth or maybe to cover the position next year if Orakpo deal can not be completed?

emoses14 wrote:Very tough to keep both, but I really hope that we do. I really don't want to watch either be the awesome players I think they are and will be, somewhere else.

I agree. I think they compliment each other really well. Pretty sure their best games have been when both of them have been starting.

I'm not holding my breath, but I'd be happy to see a long term deal worked out with Rak before the summer and the team can start planning on how to keep Kerrigan. I don't doubt that it will be tough, but I'm pretty sure they could figure out how to make that happen. Seems like it will be more a matter of whether the team decides they want a longer commitment to Orakpo. That might be more clear to them after the draft.

SKINS#1 wrote:If the Redskins draft an OLB in 2nd or 3rd rd. You think this is for depth or maybe to cover the position next year if Orakpo deal can not be completed?

I would think both. Though I'm not sure we're going to find a replacement in the 3rd round or even the 2d. Really legit pass rushers go in the first round.

riggofan wrote:

emoses14 wrote:Very tough to keep both, but I really hope that we do. I really don't want to watch either be the awesome players I think they are and will be, somewhere else.

I agree. I think they compliment each other really well. Pretty sure their best games have been when both of them have been starting.

For sure... and they will both see further improvement with Hatcher collapsing the pocket in the center, and demanding double teams...

I'm not holding my breath, but I'd be happy to see a long term deal worked out with Rak before the summer and the team can start planning on how to keep Kerrigan. I don't doubt that it will be tough, but I'm pretty sure they could figure out how to make that happen. Seems like it will be more a matter of whether the team decides they want a longer commitment to Orakpo. That might be more clear to them after the draft.

I agree... these players complement each other, and we really need both of them here for the long term.

I have confidence that the guys here will figure out a way to keep all the players the coaches feel they need

we are now managed by guys that have a plan and will figure out how to get things done

I don't think just because they were drafted 3 positions apart makes a statement that they were both brought in as pass rush specialists. Rak made a living at UT rushing the QB and beating guys around the edge while that was never really Kerrigan's game. Kerrigan is physically stronger and plays relentlessly with a high motor and high IQ but has never been a pass rush phenom. I think the reson you don't hear criticism is because when he was drafted there wasn't anyone proclaiming this guy to be a pass rush specialist whereas that's what Rak entered the league labeled as and fair or not once you have that label it sticks. They're just two different players playing the same OLB position but with very different skills.

As far as keeping them both here, I really hope so but given the way the Rak contract was handled and some of the rumors that the staff was split using the franchise tag on him i'm not holding out much hope he's back next year. It seems likely he plays out the franchise tender and one of two things happen; he puts up the same numbers or slighty better sack numbers if given the additional chances proving he's the player he's been all along or he jumps up to 15+ sacks and overprices himself for us given the other contracts that will need to be sorted out next year. I hope i'm wrong but this is my gut.

oneman56 wrote:It seems likely he plays out the franchise tender and one of two things happen; he puts up the same numbers or slighty better sack numbers if given the additional chances proving he's the player he's been all along or he jumps up to 15+ sacks and overprices himself for us given the other contracts that will need to be sorted out next year. I hope i'm wrong but this is my gut.

There's actually two more options:
1. He signs a multi-year deal in the next three months, and we have one less contract to sort out next year. (this is my gut, btw)
2. We franchise him again next season.

oneman56 wrote:I don't think just because they were drafted 3 positions apart makes a statement that they were both brought in as pass rush specialists. Rak made a living at UT rushing the QB and beating guys around the edge while that was never really Kerrigan's game. Kerrigan is physically stronger and plays relentlessly with a high motor and high IQ but has never been a pass rush phenom. I think the reson you don't hear criticism is because when he was drafted there wasn't anyone proclaiming this guy to be a pass rush specialist whereas that's what Rak entered the league labeled as and fair or not once you have that label it sticks. They're just two different players playing the same OLB position but with very different skills.

As far as keeping them both here, I really hope so but given the way the Rak contract was handled and some of the rumors that the staff was split using the franchise tag on him i'm not holding out much hope he's back next year. It seems likely he plays out the franchise tender and one of two things happen; he puts up the same numbers or slighty better sack numbers if given the additional chances proving he's the player he's been all along or he jumps up to 15+ sacks and overprices himself for us given the other contracts that will need to be sorted out next year. I hope i'm wrong but this is my gut.

Yeah I somewhat agree with just cause he was 3 slots lower...but more for the reasoning of drafts have different of talent each year. But....

Kerrigan had 13.5 & 12.5 sacks his junior/senior year at Purdue compared to Orakpo who had 5 & 11.5 sacks at Texas. With that said Kerrigan was thought at as a pass rusher. According to Haslett the Skins run a defensive system close to Pittsburgh. Their olbs were Greg Lloyd and Kevin Greene both agressively players allowed and accountable for sacks. Ryan has only had 8.5 high in 3 years. Sacks dont mean everything, but he also is subpar in tackles with 47.

From hearing your statements, it sounds like Kerrigans exact scouting report from Mike Mayock or somebody. Maybe its Rak hype cause he came from a bigger program.

But yeah I agree would like to keep them both but in my opinion Kerrigan havent lived up to be a franchise guy thus far.

Kerrigan in my opinion is a better player then Orakpo and I would rather keep Kerrigan if I had to choose between the two.
Thats not to say that Orakpo isnt a good player himself.

Now I also think we have had terrible defensive schemes and playcalling. Whether it was Shanahan or Haslett.
How can we know truly how good our defensive players are? If they have not been put in the best possible situation to succeed?

Same thing happened with Lavar Arrington. Great talent never fully realized because a defensive coach fails to put the players in the best possible situation for players to succeed. One year under Marty and Lavar had 10 sacks.

I guarantee if we had a defensive mind like Pete Carroll or Dick Lebeau Rak and Kerrigan would have ten plus sacks each.

Now I do think that our F.O. and Bruce Allen are making an effort to improve this defense. I like how Allen has signed many free agents fairly cheap to come in and improve this defense. Tracy Porter and Ryan Clark will certainly help our secondary along with a young Amerson who looks promising. D Hall remains one of the top corners at least top ten. Cofield and Hatcher will help big collapse the pocket and give Rak and Kerrigan more one on one situations.

The key to keeping good players is to have a plan and have the people that know how to manage the plan - until recently we have not had that here

the key to having a franchise be successful is to have a good team and not so much to having great players

we should keep the players that make the other players better and let the guys that are only interested in making great plays go make them somewhere else

I think that Haslett will find a way to get Orakpo and Kerrigan to be very effective and the FO will find a way to keep them both if that is what is best for the defense

the same applies to Robert Griffin

this FO will find a way to keep the players that make the other players better because that is what good FOs do

HEROHAMO wrote:Kerrigan in my opinion is a better player then Orakpo and I would rather keep Kerrigan if I had to choose between the two. Thats not to say that Orakpo isnt a good player himself.

I couldn't say for sure if one is better than the other. Just my impression, but they seem like such different types of players even though they play the same position. I think I agree with you that I would keep Kerrigan if I had to choose between them. He's unquestionably solid and if nothing else doesn't have the injury history that Rak does.

By all accounts, there are a lot of differing opinions on Orakpo among the coaches and the front office too. Those guys see him every day, so I'm going to assume there are at least a few legit question marks with him.

HEROHAMO wrote:Kerrigan in my opinion is a better player then Orakpo and I would rather keep Kerrigan if I had to choose between the two

They make each other better because their skills are complementary. Orakpo may be more single dimension, but rushing the QB like he does opens things up a lot more for guys like Kerrigan to make a play as well.

I'm curious to find out if Haslett really did suck because he was micromanaged by Shannahan or not. We'd better see some serious improvement this year or a new DC next year.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Kerrigan in my opinion is a better player then Orakpo and I would rather keep Kerrigan if I had to choose between the two

They make each other better because their skills are complementary. Orakpo may be more single dimension, but rushing the QB like he does opens things up a lot more for guys like Kerrigan to make a play as well.

I'm curious to find out if Haslett really did suck because he was micromanaged by Shannahan or not.
We'd better see some serious improvement this year or a new DC next year.

it's not just Orakpo and Kerrigan either - there's many others that need to play well together on defense ... there's many players here that really need to step up this season

I agree about Haslett - I think that Jay has been told by Bruce to give him a shot while we're rebuilding and if he doesn't show he's got what it takes it's over
the way I look at it we're coming off a 3-13 year and it's not like we can expect to be a 10-12 win franchise this season

we're going to find out a bunch of stuff here this season: - is Robert Griffin a good NFL QB or just another good college QB that cannot make the next step - is Jay Gruden going to make a good HC - is Haslett really a good DC - we have a season of finding out about things and trying to re-build our depth across the board

Well I pretty much agree, Kaz.

What kills me is when I see Rak about to make a play on the ball carrier and he either over pursues or misses a tackle by being overly aggressive. We just need him to be more dialed in. Pressure from the defensive line would help him out alot as well.

I love Rak but at times get frustated with him because he is so talented.

But yes your right. If Haslett gets to run his defense maybe we will get to see the best of Rak.

Interesting. Kerrigan's option was picked up today and he will receive 7mil next year's salary. So question remains. Is he in line to bring back for that 9-11 mil per year range when he becomes a free agent?

Chris Russell feels we are interested in adding an additional OLB with that 2nd pick. I don't see the Redskins keeping both Kerrigan and Orakpo on long term hefty deals.

mastdark81 wrote:Interesting. Kerrigan's option was picked up today and he will receive 7mil next year's salary. So question remains. Is he in line to bring back for that 9-11 mil per year range when he becomes a free agent?

Chris Russell feels we are interested in adding an additional OLB with that 2nd pick. I don't see the Redskins keeping both Kerrigan and Orakpo on long term hefty deals.

I do - We don't know what it's going to take to keep both but if that's best for the team then the FO will figure it out - we'll cross that bridge at the right time

Orakpo rushes against better linemen (Left Tackles) but he's also rushing the blind side where the QB can't see him. Kerrigan plays more off coverage and rushes less. Hence his sack totals are a little lower. OVERALL Kerrigan is the better Linebacker. Period.

Orakpo, is more talented. But, he isn't adding anything to his game. He is a two trick pony. Bull rush. Speed rush. That about it.

He's good at both of those moves. But that's only enough to be very good. Not great.

Kerrigan has a knack for the ball, forcing fumbles. Pass Defense. He's a complete player.

How about tradking Rak to Oakland for their 2nd round this year and a 2nd next year? Use the 2@2nd round picks on ROT and OLB. Sign Kerrigan to a more friendly cap deal. Situation solved!!!

[quote="The Hogster"]Orakpo rushes against better linemen (Left Tackles) but he's also rushing the blind side where the QB can't see him. Kerrigan plays more off coverage and rushes less. Hence his sack totals are a little lower. OVERALL Kerrigan is the better Linebacker. Period.

I agree, I see him in coverage when I think he should be attacking the pocket. I assumed he had more speed and that was why he was in coverage. He'll also disrupt a play and force it to the center or left where others get thier names called.
He is a very good player and if he and rac are both healthy this season they'll be a great combo.