The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... ml?hpid=z4

"Fifteen seasons after securing the keys to one of the NFL’s most storied franchises, Snyder, 49, is still trying to get it right, embarking on yet another search for a head coach he hopes might change the Redskins’ fortunes."

Argh....

No owner in football, or any professional sports, has run a franchise into the ground faster, and more soundly than the Little One.

As fans we measure the success of the team by wins and losses but I think it is clear that profit and loss is the measurement Snyder cares about and he has tripled the teams revenue in the 15 years he has owned the team. By this standard he's a huge success as an owner.

“What’s happened is this guy gets beaten up because people want to beat him up,” said Casserly, who was fired by Snyder in 1999. “He’s done what people have told him to do, and people are still taking shots at him and not looking at the thing objectively.” Charley Casserly

... and, as responses in this thread demonstrate... on it goes...

Countertrey wrote:

“What’s happened is this guy gets beaten up because people want to beat him up,” said Casserly, who was fired by Snyder in 1999. “He’s done what people have told him to do, and people are still taking shots at him and not looking at the thing objectively.” Charley Casserly

... and, as responses in this thread demonstrate... on it goes...

Yep.
It will be a lose lose for Danny boys rep amoung fans until the TEAM wins another trophy... Then of course it will be all his fault if we don't win one the next year! Lol

Kind of like.... We won the division last year but it wasn't because of rgiiis amazing athletic ability... Yet our team sucked this year because he lost some if his athletic ability..

Countertrey wrote:

“What’s happened is this guy gets beaten up because people want to beat him up,” said Casserly, who was fired by Snyder in 1999. “He’s done what people have told him to do, and people are still taking shots at him and not looking at the thing objectively.” Charley Casserly

... and, as responses in this thread demonstrate... on it goes...

The Washington Post is all about Redskins articles volume. They've been the leading news outlet for posting about the name change.

I am getting closer to just boycotting them altogether.

It is funny, really believe most of the Snyder hate is media driven. They, for some reason, disliked him almost immediately. They immediately started writing articles that painted him in a bad light and of course he had given them ammunition but they did the first volley. They continue to paint him in the worst light they possibly can. Hell his own radio station takes shots at him on a regular basis.

They losing would have made most fans frustrated nut people act like he took over the team in 93 when the losing first started. Norv, Casserly, and John Cooke had this team losing on a regular basis. Infact the years from 93 -98 we're worse than Snyder's first six seasons, yet people wanted Snyder gone and Casserly back. They hated Snyder almost immediately! I ask Why?

It isn't like he is Peter Anglos who for almost two decades didn't give a rat's donkey about his team. It isn't like he is Herry Jones who died a HC that has won back two back SB just because he wanted to take credit for what Johnson had built. Imagine if Snyder did something like that. I think fans soul literally go to his Patomac house and lynch him.

No Snyder is guilty of trying to win. Yes he tried to do it the wrong way and kept that bug eyed idiot, Cerato around too long, but he managed to hire Schoteheimer, Spurier (I know this was a disaster but most people thought it was a good idea at the time), he brought Gibbs back, and he hired Shanny. Yes Shanny was a complete failure but No One could have seen that going as bad as it did and Answer had nothing to do with it falling.

masterkwon wrote:No owner in football, or any professional sports, has run a franchise into the ground faster, and more soundly than the Little One.

All you have to do is look up 95 a few miles to the warehouse and the office of Mr. Peter Angelos. I would say he is worse.

skinsfan#33 wrote:It is funny, really believe most of the Snyder hate is media driven. They, for some reason, disliked him almost immediately. They immediately started writing articles that painted him in a bad light and of course he had given them ammunition but they did the first volley. They continue to paint him in the worst light they possibly can. Hell his own radio station takes shots at him on a regular basis.

They losing would have made most fans frustrated nut people act like he took over the team in 93 when the losing first started. Norv, Casserly, and John Cooke had this team losing on a regular basis. Infact the years from 93 -98 we're worse than Snyder's first six seasons, yet people wanted Snyder gone and Casserly back. They hated Snyder almost immediately! I ask Why?

It isn't like he is Peter Anglos who for almost two decades didn't give a rat's donkey about his team. It isn't like he is Herry Jones who died a HC that has won back two back SB just because he wanted to take credit for what Johnson had built. Imagine if Snyder did something like that. I think fans soul literally go to his Patomac house and lynch him.

No Snyder is guilty of trying to win. Yes he tried to do it the wrong way and kept that bug eyed idiot, Cerato around too long, but he managed to hire Schoteheimer, Spurier (I know this was a disaster but most people thought it was a good idea at the time), he brought Gibbs back, and he hired Shanny. Yes Shanny was a complete failure but No One could have seen that going as bad as it did and Answer had nothing to do with it falling.

Sorry but I never wanted Shanahan here! I said and will always say without Elway Shanahan wouldn't have won NOTHING! Elway made Shanahan not the other way around. Why do you think Shanahan hasn't done nothing since Elway retired?? That my friend isn't rocket science.........

I remember thinking that Dan Snyder was an OK owner - he was basically like us, a fan, and he found a way to own 'his' Redskins - then it became obvious that he could not accept that the Redskins were not getting better because of his management - he is not a bad guy, he just does not have a clue about managing in the NFL

I did not like Mike's hiring as a HC but I thought it was a key step for the franchise to have Dan Snyder turn over 'control' to Mike and the FO

Mike is a very good HC, he made too many mistakes here with both his choice of players and his assistants - and he had too much control

I understand that Bruce Allen is not perceived as a great personnel GM but we have a franchise that is out of Dan Snyder's hands ... for now

Mike and Bruce did pull this franchise out of the terrible mess that Dan Snyder created - it's up to this FO now to bring in a HC and a staff that will get these players back into playing the game and having fun - there will now be accountability all the way up the ladder - if the HC does not work out we could see Bruce, also lose his job

The next HC has to be more of a "manager" and ensure that both players and coaches are on the same page - we need accountability for both the good and the bad
he also needs to make sure that the game is fun and that the players players play with an attitude of pride and determination - let the assistants handle the 'coaching'

I do think that the current situation has a lot of potential for good things to happen here and I'm sure the top guys are thinking long and hard about what they are doing

Dan Snyder has decided to continue to stay out of things but there is no way the DC media will let him off the hook - they cannot stand Dan Snyder or 'his' Redskins

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:It is funny, really believe most of the Snyder hate is media driven. They, for some reason, disliked him almost immediately. They immediately started writing articles that painted him in a bad light and of course he had given them ammunition but they did the first volley. They continue to paint him in the worst light they possibly can. Hell his own radio station takes shots at him on a regular basis.

They losing would have made most fans frustrated nut people act like he took over the team in 93 when the losing first started. Norv, Casserly, and John Cooke had this team losing on a regular basis. Infact the years from 93 -98 we're worse than Snyder's first six seasons, yet people wanted Snyder gone and Casserly back. They hated Snyder almost immediately! I ask Why?

It isn't like he is Peter Anglos who for almost two decades didn't give a rat's donkey about his team. It isn't like he is Herry Jones who died a HC that has won back two back SB just because he wanted to take credit for what Johnson had built. Imagine if Snyder did something like that. I think fans soul literally go to his Patomac house and lynch him.

No Snyder is guilty of trying to win. Yes he tried to do it the wrong way and kept that bug eyed idiot, Cerato around too long, but he managed to hire Schoteheimer, Spurier (I know this was a disaster but most people thought it was a good idea at the time), he brought Gibbs back, and he hired Shanny. Yes Shanny was a complete failure but No One could have seen that going as bad as it did and Answer had nothing to do with it falling.

Sorry but I never wanted Shanahan here! I said and will always say without Elway Shanahan wouldn't have won NOTHING! Elway made Shanahan not the other way around. Why do you think Shanahan hasn't done nothing since Elway retired?? That my friend isn't rocket science.........

I never wanted Shanny either. I just didn't trust him. But to say he never win anything w/o Elwsy is simply ignoring actual facts and is something an uninformed fan would say. Unless you're definition of never winning anything is no SB wins post Elway then you could say the same about Elway never winning anything w/o Shanny. Prior to joining the Skins he only had two (out of ten) losing seasons (post Elway), for playoff appearances, one playoff win , four double digit winning sessions, multiple AFW titles, and a 57% winning percentage.

So yeah me you didn't want him, but don't cheapen what you are trying to say by saying the stupid fan statement, "He never win anything after Elway", you just lost all credibility when you say something like that.

Countertrey wrote:

“What’s happened is this guy gets beaten up because people want to beat him up,” said Casserly, who was fired by Snyder in 1999. “He’s done what people have told him to do, and people are still taking shots at him and not looking at the thing objectively.” Charley Casserly

... and, as responses in this thread demonstrate... on it goes...

That was big of Casserly to say, and I agree to a certain extent. There is no question that Snyder has made a lot of decisions based on what he thought would please the fans. Firing guys at certain times (Marty, for example). Splashy hires (Spurrier). The crazy FA fantasy football spending sprees.

I can't help but compare that to the more stable approaches taken by teams like the Giants and Steelers. Those franchises have stuck by Coughlin and Tomlin in bad times, and there's no question it has paid off for them. (Obviously its not all about just being stable at the coaching position - those teams are just well run from top to bottom IMO.)

All that said, I still hold Snyder responsible for his period of trying to run the team like Jerry Jones and for keeping that idiot Cerrato around for so long. Our biggest hurdle to becoming a winning team the past few years hasn't been Shanahan or even Dan Snyder. Its been trying to recover from the tremendously bad management of the previous ten years.

^^ you got that right

Love to view the compassion and love for Dan Snyder in this thread ... love to read the excuses and promises for personal change ... love to read in the article the good things those in the NFL who want to be in his pocket say about him ...

ONLY problem is: HE HAS NOT CHANGED. Nobody can take away the stripes out of a tiger either. As most of you say: IT IS WHAT IT IS. HE IS WHO HE IS.

Once the next failure HC arrives, there will be others saying "Dan is really trying" or "Dan is not afraid to spend" or "Dan is changing" or better yet, "Dan HAS changed" ... would be funny if it was not sad.

I feel the article makes an effort to be balanced and quotes people on both sides of the divide. HOWEVER, for as long as all we get from Daniel Snyder is FAILURE and we get it OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and ... OVER AGAIN. That is the PROOF of NO CHANGE.

Some of you confuse loyalty to the Skins with a sincere desire to give this guy yet another chance. You are wasting your time. The Skins are a VERY PROFITABLE organization in the spreadsheet. All he needs to do is keep on selling snake-oil, smoke and mirrors. Propaganda works. Particularly when we would like to believe it for the sake of our favourite team.

I'm not 'giving' Snyder "another chance" - not after the damage he did

however - I am comfortable pointing out that from what we've seen and heard, Dan Snyder, is no longer managing this franchise

He is still responsible for the mess we are in and that does not change just because he's given up control of the franchise hirings and player acquisitions

now, he may be in contact with members of the Redskins but that has nothing to do with what is happening between the lines on Sundays

I don't care what the media thinks about Dan Snyder - they are certainly very biased against anything to do with this franchise

Redskin in Canada wrote:Love to view the compassion and love for Dan Snyder in this thread ... love to read the excuses and promises for personal change ... love to read in the article the good things those in the NFL who want to be in his pocket say about him ...

ONLY problem is: HE HAS NOT CHANGED. Nobody can take away the stripes out of a tiger either. As most of you say: IT IS WHAT IT IS. HE IS WHO HE IS.

Once the next failure HC arrives, there will be others saying "Dan is really trying" or "Dan is not afraid to spend" or "Dan is changing" or better yet, "Dan HAS changed" ... would be funny if it was not sad.

I feel the article makes an effort to be balanced and quotes people on both sides of the divide. HOWEVER, for as long as all we get from Daniel Snyder is FAILURE and we get it OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and ... OVER AGAIN. That is the PROOF of NO CHANGE.

Some of you confuse loyalty to the Skins with a sincere desire to give this guy yet another chance. You are wasting your time. The Skins are a VERY PROFITABLE organization in the spreadsheet. All he needs to do is keep on selling snake-oil, smoke and mirrors. Propaganda works. Particularly when we would like to believe it for the sake of our favourite team.

I understand what you are saying. Question.... Have you ever changed at all in your life? I would guess that most people go through quite a few changes. Has anyone in your life ever persuaded you to act different? I know I have made mistakes and learned from it and even had people tell me so. This will continue I am sure. That is just me I suppose.

I do not trust Dan Snyder and I do not think he has changed at all ..

where RiC and I differ is that I think the main reason the Redskins did not do well the past few seasons was because of Mike Shanahan
Mike wanted 'control', Dan gave it to him and he did not make it work

the reason we're in this mess is because of Dan Snyder - not Mike Shanahan

I'm hoping that Dan continues to let NFL guys like Bruce and the FO manage this franchise and try to get it out of the mess that he created

Neo wrote:The Washington Post is all about Redskins articles volume. They've been the leading news outlet for posting about the name change.

I am getting closer to just boycotting them altogether.

I stop reading that rag years ago.

SkinsJock wrote:I do not trust Dan Snyder and I do not think he has changed at all ..

where RiC and I differ is that I think the main reason the Redskins did not do well the past few seasons was because of Mike Shanahan
Mike wanted 'control', Dan gave it to him and he did not make it work

the reason we're in this mess is because of Dan Snyder - not Mike Shanahan

I'm hoping that Dan continues to let NFL guys like Bruce and the FO manage this franchise and try to get it out of the mess that he created

There's quite a bit of evidence Snyder has changed over his tenure. He let Shanahan have complete control (written into his contract) for 4 full years; and he fired Vinny Cerrato. Remember that while he gave Schottenheimer control for one year, he fired him because he couldn't stand it. It's pretty evident Snyder was okay with Shanahan having control, but NOT with him having such a horrific record.

And I completely disagree. Whereas a lot of the previous issues were due to Snyder, this mess I fully leave at the feet of Mike Shanahan. Think of how bad the record has been, and how our team lacks overall talent. Since Shanahan had full control, how can you blame Snyder for the lack of talent? He didn't pick the players. Shanahan also demonstrated, multiple times, that he gave up. Remember how last year, after the loss against the Panthers that dropped us to 3-6, he basically threw in the towel saying "Obviously, we're not out of it statistically, but now we find out what type of character we've got and how guys keep on fighting through the rest of the season"? And then he again threw in the towel this year, and started the toxic leaking about how he was thinking of leaving after last season?

A good head coach keeps his ship buttoned down. Shanahan let his ship leak...all over the place. A good head coach doesn't meddle with his coordinators (see what he pulled with Haslett), or hire his son and let his son hire his unqualified cronies to coach. NONE of that is on Snyder.

Makes me sick to defend Snyder but let's be honest here.

PulpExposure wrote:There's quite a bit of evidence Snyder has changed over his tenure. He let Shanahan have complete control (written into his contract) for 4 full years; and he fired Vinny Cerrato. Remember that while he gave Schottenheimer control for one year, he fired him because he couldn't stand it. It's pretty evident Snyder was okay with Shanahan having control, but NOT with him having such a horrific record.

And I completely disagree. Whereas a lot of the previous issues were due to Snyder, this mess I fully leave at the feet of Mike Shanahan. Think of how bad the record has been, and how our team lacks overall talent. Since Shanahan had full control, how can you blame Snyder for the lack of talent? He didn't pick the players. Shanahan also demonstrated, multiple times, that he gave up. Remember how last year, after the loss against the Panthers that dropped us to 3-6, he basically threw in the towel saying "Obviously, we're not out of it statistically, but now we find out what type of character we've got and how guys keep on fighting through the rest of the season"? And then he again threw in the towel this year, and started the toxic leaking about how he was thinking of leaving after last season?

Great stuff man. I completely agree with what you're saying (and I feel you on your comment that it "makes you sick to defend Snyder"). When all of this negative stuff came out about Snyder last month, I was really surprised. My impression was that I had barely seen or heard ANYTHING from Snyder in the four years since Mike took over. It couldn't have been more different from the Zorn era where he was out in front like Jerry Jones.

Kilmer72 wrote:I understand what you are saying. Question.... Have you ever changed at all in your life? I would guess that most people go through quite a few changes. Has anyone in your life ever persuaded you to act different? I know I have made mistakes and learned from it and even had people tell me so. This will continue I am sure. That is just me I suppose.

+1. Honestly, I think we'll find out a lot about Snyder based on who this next HC is and how the process plays out. As much as I dislike him personally, I still believe that Dan Snyder loves the team as much as any of us and will do nearly anything to make them a winner. Even if I'm wrong about his passion for the team, the guy is making money like he's printing it himself with one of the most consistently bad teams in the NFL. How much more money would he be making if they actually WON???

I agree to a certain extent ... Mike asked for 'control' and got it ... he did not do well. no question

Dan Snyder has continued to interfere and meddle with the team ... it is impossible for a HC to have complete authority if the owner is in 'contact' with players

we do not know the actual circumstances but I will ask ...

do you think that Mike has complete authority over the players if Dan is meeting or having contact with RG3

do you think it undermine's Mike and Kyle authority for RG3 to have contact with the owner and possibly discuss what's happening

do you think it's an issue for other players if RG3 is in contact with Dan Snyder - how do they 'relate' to this

if the answer is yes to any of the above, then Dan is still making it almost impossible for a HC to have complete authority

It is almost a given that Dan has been meeting with RG3 and making it difficult for Mike to have complete authority


The only thing I liked about the hiring of Mike Shanahan was the fact that he asked for and got Dan Snyder to turn the operations over to Mike and the FO

there is no doubt that Mike did not do well but Dan Snyder did not make it possible for him to have complete authority ...


Dan Snyder needs to stay away from RG3 ...

RG3 needs to stay away from Dan Snyder and he needs to understand that the HC and OC are the only guys he owes complete loyalty to


the only reason this job is not more attractive than any other job is Dan Snyder - we have an incredible QB and a lot of good things ...

we also have Dan Snyder and he has not changed - it is impossible to succeed here while Dan Snyder continues to interfere with what is happening on the field

IMPOSSIBLE

riggofan wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:.. I think we'll find out a lot about Snyder based on who this next HC is and how the process plays out. As much as I dislike him personally, I still believe that Dan Snyder loves the team as much as any of us and will do nearly anything to make them a winner. Even if I'm wrong about his passion for the team, the guy is making money like he's printing it himself with one of the most consistently bad teams in the NFL. How much more money would he be making if they actually WON???

I agree with you except that no HC can have the authority he needs if RG3 and Dan Snyder are 'friends'

I love that Dan Snyder loves this franchise and that he gave the FO the authority to look for the next HC

The only way that RG3 develops as a QB and as a member of the team is for Dan Snyder to stay away from RG3

there's no doubt that contact affects the other players and the authority of the coaching staff

we have seen some change from Dan Snyder and we do not know all the facts about the contact between Snyder and RG3 ...

If there is any 'contact' and it seems obvious, then that is not good for the coaches, the players and it is not good for RG3

I honestly don't know man. I kind of disagree with you that Snyder should not have "contact" with players. To me its more about having APPROPRIATE contact.

I'm a VP at my small company, and there are kids that I don't work with on a daily basis. They work for my production manager or for the office manager or whatever. I still find it helpful at times to speak directly to them, take them to lunch individually, things like that. I guarantee you I get information and helpful details from them that I don't get from the office manager!

So do I think Shanahan had "complete authority"? I think so, but I also don't think Snyder or any other owner just turns EVERYTHING over to one guy and says, "Ok run with it, no input from me, let me know how it goes."

SkinsJock wrote:I agree with you except that no HC can have the authority he needs if RG3 and Dan Snyder are 'friends'

Totally agree, man. That's exactly what I was getting at when I said "appropriate" contact. There is that story about Snyder having Thanksgiving dinner with RGIII, not sure that qualifies as "appropriate". Forget about undermining the coach, I think stuff like that does RGIII no favors with his teammates.