The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I've been a patient guy. Often sticking up for Shanahan and the rest of the coaching staff, and even let them get away with some ugliness the first five games of the season because RG3 was recovering. But RG3 is playing better right now than at the end of last season when he was hurt, and this team still looks pretty bad. Yes, there is the cap hit, a new special teams coordinator, and an aging linebacker, but where is this going? We don't have the swagger from last year. I feel like we're just kind of floating right now with no direction and no leader.

In addition, I feel like there is some tension between coach and QB from last season. I feel like there is friction between Garcon and Griffin with the ridiculous comments made from earlier in the season. That would explain why they are not on the same page, and why they are always pissed at each other when there is a miscommunication. Wrong routes, poor throws etc. Just hope we can regain some swagger, because I just have an uneasy feeling right now. Not sure what to think about this. What is everyone chalking this up to? Griffin recovery, cap hit, coaching, draft picks, lack of talent?

I don't really buy into the "inter-conflict" amongst RG3 & staff/players, but who knows, might explain the sudden lack of "chemistry" if you will.

Things were looking good in preseason as far as execution (weren't really playing top tier teams), but then suddenly everything feel apart.

They are slowly coming back together; I'd say that's where we're going, but what frustrates me is how did they manage to come undone in the first place?

RG3's legs look just as good as last year, but his throws were really off the mark. Frustrating to see, but honestly, he works too hard not to get back into throwing form. Could have just been an off game for him too (it happens).

I know I've said this before and I'd gladly eat my words if I'm wrong, but I think this year is a growing pains/learning year. Next year we'll make key upgrades and be where we should have been two years ago.

In the long haul, we'll be fine.

Many have said Kyle's plays are predictable; I agree. However, the real issue is that our WRs can't get open/catch consistently, and the o-line can't block. I truly believe that will be addressed next year.

If our defense would play, at their worst, they way they did against Dallas, I think 99% of our complaints would be about the o-line. This last game gave me relief that the defense will improve, but upgrades will be made next year.

Just stumbled upon this article. Seems that this was all in good fun though...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... -function/

I definitely don't want Shanny to return after year 5. His record thus far with the Skins is horrendous.

StorminMormon86 wrote:I definitely don't want Shanny to return after year 5. His record thus far with the Skins is horrendous.

I agree that looking at 2 numbers (W-Ls) leads to this logical conclusion. But please help me understand in that conclusion how you are accounting for (i) the ungodly mess that this team, personnel wise (I mean starters, reserves and depth (ha!)), was when Mike got here, (ii) the dearth of draft picks in the first 1-2 years stemming from the moves that made (i) possible, (iii)the ungodly mess this team was in its scouting department, (iv) the ungodly mess we were cap wise, (v) the stolen $36 million over the last 2 years, and (vi) the time it takes to fix (i), (ii) and (iii) and unlock the handcuffs placed on us as a result of (iv) and especially (v). Because the fact that he managed to win as many games as he has in these 4 years, taking into account (i)-(vi), is impressive to me.

I know that the product on the field this year is particularly frustrating in light of what we saw last year, but the warts of the rebuilding that was still going on last year were covered up by the miraculous play of Robert and Alfred, to a lesser degree. This year, there ain't as much lipstick on that pig. However, I'm still fully willing to give Mike the full benefit of this year and how we improve (yes we are improving still) as Robert gets back to full strength (health, comfort, etc.). I see getting rid of Mike as certain to be 5 steps back, whereas retaining him will continue the forward progress.

i don't know where ya'll are headed but i'm going to the kitchen to get some more coffee.

chiefhog44 wrote:I've been a patient guy. Often sticking up for Shanahan and the rest of the coaching staff, and even let them get away with some ugliness the first five games of the season because RG3 was recovering. But RG3 is playing better right now than at the end of last season when he was hurt, and this team still looks pretty bad. Yes, there is the cap hit, a new special teams coordinator, and an aging linebacker, but where is this going? We don't have the swagger from last year. I feel like we're just kind of floating right now with no direction and no leader.

In addition, I feel like there is some tension between coach and QB from last season. I feel like there is friction between Garcon and Griffin with the ridiculous comments made from earlier in the season. That would explain why they are not on the same page, and why they are always pissed at each other when there is a miscommunication. Wrong routes, poor throws etc. Just hope we can regain some swagger, because I just have an uneasy feeling right now. Not sure what to think about this. What is everyone chalking this up to? Griffin recovery, cap hit, coaching, draft picks, lack of talent?

I really don't get what your complaint is supposed to be. Were you unhappy with where we were headed as of the end of the regular season last year? Are you unsure of what Shanahan is doing to build a team with the potential to be successful in the long-term? What specifically is your problem? The substance I can extract from your post comes down to this:

(1) Griffin doesn't look good to you. This is a strange complaint, because he's had huge improvement in his mechanics and ability to throw the ball from week 1, and he's still recovering/healing from major surgery. If you are serious when you say he looks worse now than he did in our playoff loss . . . well, OK, then I guess my advice is that you should just wait until he's "magically" better a few months from now.

(2) "Swagger." I don't even know what this means. The truth is that it's a pretty thin margin between (most) good teams and (most) bad teams in the NFL. People typically attribute "swagger" as some force that helps teams go one way or the other, but that's essentially bunk. We worked ourselves slightly over that line by the end of last year, and now we're on the wrong side of it. I see a team that's working to try to get back to where it was. Perhaps that will turn into "swagger" once they are successful, but again I don't know what that means, anyway.

(3) Tension. These are just unsubstantiated suspicions, and I'd prefer to see actual conflicts before concluding we have a locker room problem. When it comes to this kind of thing, winning cures all, anyway. We did it before and we'll do it again.

Honestly, if Garcon's comments got RGIII's panties in a bunch --- then we have big problems on our hands. There have always been whispers that RGIII is a premadonna and can't take criticiszm. If there is a rift between the 2 --- then that is most likely accurate. RGIII is the QB and needs to be above that. Regardless, RGIII doesn't appear to be the leader he was last year. I hope this is a humbling experience for RGIII and will make him stronger having been thru it. He needs to.

As far as the legs and arms of RGIII ---- his legs nor his arm is as good as it was last year..... and I didn't expect them to. He is progressing; which is all we can ask for. That said, I'm not 100% sure he'll get back to 2012 form; we'll see. He isn't the same leader we saw last year -- but I think everyone sees that. He needs to be a leader even when things are down.

emoses14 wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:I definitely don't want Shanny to return after year 5. His record thus far with the Skins is horrendous.

I agree that looking at 2 numbers (W-Ls) leads to this logical conclusion. But please help me understand in that conclusion how you are accounting for (i) the ungodly mess that this team, personnel wise (I mean starters, reserves and depth (ha!)), was when Mike got here, (ii) the dearth of draft picks in the first 1-2 years stemming from the moves that made (i) possible, (iii)the ungodly mess this team was in its scouting department, (iv) the ungodly mess we were cap wise, (v) the stolen $36 million over the last 2 years, and (vi) the time it takes to fix (i), (ii) and (iii) and unlock the handcuffs placed on us as a result of (iv) and especially (v). Because the fact that he managed to win as many games as he has in these 4 years, taking into account (i)-(vi), is impressive to me.

I know that the product on the field this year is particularly frustrating in light of what we saw last year, but the warts of the rebuilding that was still going on last year were covered up by the miraculous play of Robert and Alfred, to a lesser degree. This year, there ain't as much lipstick on that pig. However, I'm still fully willing to give Mike the full benefit of this year and how we improve (yes we are improving still) as Robert gets back to full strength (health, comfort, etc.). I see getting rid of Mike as certain to be 5 steps back, whereas retaining him will continue the forward progress.

Even with the he inherited, I just don't think the guy is a smart coach. It seems like every year there's been some sort of issue with the players. First it was McNabb, then it was the Grossman/Beck debacle, and now it's the whole crap with keeping Griffin in when he should have pulled him. I just don't like the guy.

StorminMormon86 wrote:Even with the he inherited, I just don't think the guy is a smart coach. It seems like every year there's been some sort of issue with the players.

First it was McNabb

An actual miscalculation / mistake.

then it was the Grossman/Beck debacle

Neither were ever going to be our long-term starter. Shanahan was waiting on a permanent solution to the QB position. Problem solved.

and now it's the whole crap with keeping Griffin in when he should have pulled him.

To whatever extent there was mismanagement, that's been fully resolved, IMO. That the Washington Post was able to keep this nonstory alive for so long is actually impressive.

I just don't like the guy.

That much is clear.

I don't have any problem with what chiefhog wrote above or really any of your comments.

Personally though, I've just had enough of the constant turnover. We've all acknowledged that Shanahan inherited an abomination of a roster. We didn't have a QB. And there is no arguing that the two year cap penalty has prevented them from bringing in some much needed help.

I don't have any doubt that Shanahan has a plan and direction he believes in. I want to see that job finished. If we need to make a coaching change then, at least I think we'll have a capable roster and a more professional organization for the next coaching staff.

I'm not letting Shanahan completely off the hook btw. He has clearly made some mistakes along the way. McNabb obviously. I don't know that switching to the 4-3 was a great idea with all of our other issues.

He still had an impressive and almost unbelievable playoff run last year though. Whatever happens this year, I'd like to see him back next year without the cap penalty and keep moving forward. I have no interest in starting all over again with the next Steve Spurrier, Jim Zorn, etc;

We have guys in charge that know what they are doing and things are not near as bad as many here are making them out to be

I am not and never was a fan of Mike Shanahan as a HC but he's here and he won the NFC East last year

hopefully, we do not go back to the turnover of players and coaches like we used to

There is no way Shanahan comes back after year 5 if we have another losing record.

StorminMormon86 wrote:There is no way Shanahan comes back after year 5 if we have another losing record.

Keep your fingers crossed and hope that doesn't happen. Then it would take another coach and staff to dismantle the team and yet another 5 years to hope they are better.

This year isn't over. Next year we should finally have FA coming in to plug holes the draft can't.

I was never a huge fan of Shanahan but his scheme seems to do well against the Giants. I was never a fan of the 34 defense especially since we had a decent 43 defense. It is what it is.... Lets not be too quick to oust this regime.

markshark84 wrote:Honestly, if Garcon's comments got RGIII's panties in a bunch --- then we have big problems on our hands. There have always been whispers that RGIII is a premadonna and can't take criticiszm. If there is a rift between the 2 --- then that is most likely accurate. RGIII is the QB and needs to be above that. Regardless, RGIII doesn't appear to be the leader he was last year. I hope this is a humbling experience for RGIII and will make him stronger having been thru it. He needs to.

As far as the legs and arms of RGIII ---- his legs nor his arm is as good as it was last year..... and I didn't expect them to. He is progressing; which is all we can ask for. That said, I'm not 100% sure he'll get back to 2012 form; we'll see. He isn't the same leader we saw last year -- but I think everyone sees that. He needs to be a leader even when things are down.

I have been hoping that the silver lining out of this terrible start by the Redskins would help to humble RG3 a bit as well but he just doesnt seem to get it.. his comments about how every QB in this league misses throws just rubs me the wrong way.. maybe it is just me

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... o-play-qb/

you're absolutely correct everydayAskinsday - it is just you ... well maybe there are some others that don't get it also, so don't go doing anything silly ...

RG3 is an incredible talent and it's been abundantly clear to most of us and the media that he's been well brought up and he's a VERY humble respectful person

RG3 will become a more complete QB in the near future and we're lucky, in a way, that he's being tutored by Kyle and Mike - he would not have lasted long in the NFL playing the way that he did last year

everydayAskinsday wrote:I have been hoping that the silver lining out of this terrible start by the Redskins would help to humble RG3 a bit as well but he just doesnt seem to get it.. his comments about how every QB in this league misses throws just rubs me the wrong way.. maybe it is just me

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... o-play-qb/

You and the WP, at least. But I don't get what's supposed to be controversial about what he said. I think RGIII was trying to anticipate where Larry Michael was going with that question, or what he thought LM was trying to imply, rightly or wrongly.

The fact that everyone in the world lately (a) has an opinion about whether RGIII should be playing and how he should play when he's in there and (b) has felt the need to express it, probably led to Robert saying what he did. I've heard everyone from my coworkers to the guy who came in to work on our kitchen last week (a Packers fan) offer an authoritative pronouncement on how to use and not to use RGIII. And about a million articles in WP, ESPN, NFL.com, etc. have been written on the topic. I think he feels that pressure and is just responding to it.

I wish Andy Reid had come here.

actually In-Bru, I think RG3 looks better than last years run. He's healthier anyway. Accuracy is way off though. I'll let the people who know more than me tell him why.

Just worried that this team is floating right now. You don't know what swagger is, I don't get what growing pains are. Either you are good or bad after 4 years. You can't tell me that we're still growing. I mean how many years before the defense is better, or we have a number 2 WR or Fletcher just shuts down on the field? These are critical issues that an offseason is not going to fix. So I ask, how much longer until we are consistently good. I know you can't answer that, but give it a guess.

SkinsJock wrote:We have guys in charge that know what they are doing and things are not near as bad as many here are making them out to be

I am not and never was a fan of Mike Shanahan as a HC but he's here and he won the NFC East last year

hopefully, we do not go back to the turnover of players and coaches like we used to

Shanahan has left a lot to be desired but he's a better alternative to how the team was ran the last decade.

Friends, I'm frustrated too, but we need to see what Shanny goes over the next 3-5 years to make a definite decision.

Many are starting to say this is an excuse, but its not; we have a huge cap penalty, picked up a long term franchise QB at the cost of 1st round picks for a few years, and weak Free Agency pickups.

If I had my guess, I'd say we're going to make a few key upgrade in FA next year (quality young players; not like the old days), and we'll pick up a stud or two in the draft.

My biggest frustration is player development. In particular, LeRib & Compton. Redskins website says Compton did play some in all 5 games but I don't recall seeing him (wasn't exactly looking). Anyway, for these two, I'd like to see them step up and take over one of our linemen's job. Compton is behind Williams, but if he's such a freak of nature in strength, he needs to start at another line position for us. Just don't understand how all the people we brought in and out of camp, no one has outmatched linemen whose last name isn't Williams.

Conclusion, we're heading towards "normal people" draft & FAs soon. Our scheme covered a lot of flaws last year, but it appears defenses have picked up on it. Some of these guys are going to continue to grow; others...perhaps even most, are going to get swapped out over the next 3 yrs or so.

riggofan wrote:I don't have any problem with what chiefhog wrote above or really any of your comments.

Personally though, I've just had enough of the constant turnover. We've all acknowledged that Shanahan inherited an abomination of a roster. We didn't have a QB. And there is no arguing that the two year cap penalty has prevented them from bringing in some much needed help.

I don't have any doubt that Shanahan has a plan and direction he believes in. I want to see that job finished. If we need to make a coaching change then, at least I think we'll have a capable roster and a more professional organization for the next coaching staff.

I'm not letting Shanahan completely off the hook btw. He has clearly made some mistakes along the way. McNabb obviously. I don't know that switching to the 4-3 was a great idea with all of our other issues.

He still had an impressive and almost unbelievable playoff run last year though. Whatever happens this year, I'd like to see him back next year without the cap penalty and keep moving forward. I have no interest in starting all over again with the next Steve Spurrier, Jim Zorn, etc;

Riggofan summed it up quite nicely. I second this. I don't know where we're headed, but I'm afraid it's highly likely to be more of the same old same old for the last 20 some odd years. We'll have a season of mild success here and there, but the majority will be at best middle of the pack, and at worst, well... I don't know that we need to jettison the ShanaPlan and start all over (again) from scratch, but dangit - Mike, you used to be one of the wizards of this league. Where is the guy who left Oakland so pissed off at no one recognizing his brilliance that he took a perennial also ran, the "it's midnight Cinderella!" Broncos, and made the changes, however minor or major, that took them back to back? Why in the heck do the 'Skins end up with players or coaches who are just a smidge PAST their prime? That pattern has stuck with us since Gibbs 1.0. How JG knew which vets to pick from other teams scrap heaps is nothing less than amazing to me considering how unsuccessful everybody else since then appears to have been at it.

Like I said, I don't have the foggiest idea where to even begin adressing what's going on now, but I disagree with Irn-Bru when he implies that we more or less just crested the median last year, and are just beneath it this year. I see a much bigger swing or drop in performance, results, what have you, than what I inferred from his earlier post. Yes, we were 3-6 and out of it last year before we got hot and ran the table; that to me only reinforces the idea that we should have carried over some of that momentum, that cohesion, despite RGIII's injury and working out the kinks. But we didn't.

I dunno fellas. We haven't lost to a team with a losing record this year...but good teams win against other good teams from time to time. The Eagles game was a mess, but in retrospect a lot of the random factors had aligned before the first kickoff, and I know I didn't see 'em. The Lions game, OTOH, was imminently winnable. Good teams win at their house against similarly talented teams more often than not. We're not. Nor have me much at all outside of a rare years since '91. And I just don't get that. Many many other organizations have risen since then. A couple have even managed to stay near the top ever since - so I know it's possible even in the salary-cap FA era. We need to figure it out and get it freaking done, because this 1 step forward, 2 or 3 steps back routine is starting to make me old before my time.

Older, anyway.

langleyparkjoe wrote:i don't know where ya'll are headed but i'm going to the kitchen to get some more coffee.

Coffee?!

You?!

Hahahahahaha!

Remaining schedule

Bears
@Broncos
Chargers
@Vikings
@Eagles
Niners
Giants
Chiefs
@Falcons
Cowpies
@Giants

Looking at the remaining schedule its easy to see we had one of the toughest schedules if not the toughest schedule considering we played Green Bay and Detroit already.

Best case scenario is the Redskins win 11 straight. Worst case scenerio to win the division might be 9-7. That would give us more wiggle room if the rest of the division starts losing which is possible.

In all honesty if our team plays at its best and RG3 hits his stride. We could beat any of the teams remaining on the schedule.
Only two teams on the schedule are real juggernauts. The Broncos offense will truly challenge our defense this is obvious. Also the Forty Niners are one of the more complete teams in the NFL they were in the SB last year. They also have a similar QB to ours with a strong running game.

So for me I say we go 10-6. I say we somehow(miracle) beat the Broncos. Which would be a huge confidence boost. Drop one to the Niners and lose on the road to the Falcons. Then we beat up on the Pies at home and the Gstrings on the road.

Remember as the season progresses RG3s legs get stronger. Dont lose patience people. You should have known that an ACL injury takes time to heal. If you are surprised that means you probably have no clue what a major knee injury can do to a person let alone a football player. RG3 looks relatively good considering he just had reconstructive Knee surgery.

HEROHAMO wrote:Remember as the season progresses RG3s legs get stronger. Dont lose patience people. You should have known that an ACL injury takes time to heal. If you are surprised that means you probably have no clue what a major knee injury can do to a person let alone a football player. RG3 looks relatively good considering he just had reconstructive Knee surgery.

This is why people have lost patience. If he still needs time to heal, he shouldn't be playing. And if he insists he's 100%, the play on the field has said otherwise.