The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Shanny made it sound like they were getting back some.. and awhile back an insider for the WaPo said on radio that they will get most or all of it back but I haven't heard about it since.

What impact could this have if they do get it back? I think we should keep our safety's merriweather and jackson, maybe sign one in FA and draft a youngster.. hopefully jackson or merri pan out but we can't bank on it and need so other options.. but I think if they do pan out we'd be fine at safety and have good depth.

We could really use it. As it stands today, with penalty included, we are about $4 million over the cap. If we get $18 million back, we would be in great shape to sign a few players.

I assume they will restructure a few contracts (Hall, Moss, Trent, others) to get under anyways, and that would only help

I think we'll have a powerful team either way next year but if we had that space back. I'd suspect us signing 2-3 high end FAs and we'd be a serious SB threat.

I think we can still be one even with cap space penalty but we'd be more sure without it.

If we do get the stolen cap space back, do we also get the $18 mil from last year to roll into this year? That would be SWEET!! Set us up with $32 million in space before redoing any contracts.

Mississippi Hog wrote:If we do get the stolen cap space back, do we also get the $18 mil from last year to roll into this year? That would be SWEET!! Set us up with $32 million in space before redoing any contracts.

We could buy anyone we wanted ahhhhhhhh

merrygrifthness wrote:Shanny made it sound like they were getting back some.. and awhile back an insider for the WaPo said on radio that they will get most or all of it back but I haven't heard about it since.

What impact could this have if they do get it back? I think we should keep our safety's merriweather and jackson, maybe sign one in FA and draft a youngster.. hopefully jackson or merri pan out but we can't bank on it and need so other options.. but I think if they do pan out we'd be fine at safety and have good depth.

Merriweather has durability issues. We can't depemd on him. Jackson won't be allowed contact with the team till at least late August. I don't see him helping this year.

WaPo article today.

Seems salcap relief is highly unlikely.

Redskins officials have said they were caught off guard last year when they found out just before free agency that the NFL would hit the team with a $36 million salary cap cut over two years.

With the team set to absorb the second half of that penalty this year, Coach Mike Shanahan said after the 2012 season that the team does not consider the matter closed. But several people familiar with the case said in recent weeks that there is little to no chance, in their view, of the Redskins recouping any portion of their lost cap space.

“The cap penalty remains in place,” one said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the Redskins have refused to comment publicly on the details of the case and what they consider unresolved.

At this point, if we get relief, I'm considering it an unexpected surprise. I hope the Skins are going into 2013 assuming that the penalty will remain in place.

I am still entirely baffled by this. I've yet to hear a cogent argument as to why this is OK, why we can not figure out a way to get relief, how the figure of $36 million was derived, or, most importantly, why we didn't just ignore this for last year and this year and let the NFL prove the legitimacy of this move, in court, while we enjoyed our fairly maneuvered cap space. How in the world is the burden on us to prove a negative rather than on the league to affirmatively prove that a rule was broken?

emoses14 wrote:I am still entirely baffled by this. I've yet to hear a cogent argument as to why this is OK, why we can not figure out a way to get relief, how the figure of $36 million was derived, or, most importantly, why we didn't just ignore this for last year and this year and let the NFL prove the legitimacy of this move, in court, while we enjoyed our fairly maneuvered cap space. How in the world is the burden on us to prove a negative rather than on the league to affirmatively prove that a rule was broken?

Because they can... This is the same unfair process that the players are subjected to but most everyone is fine with that....

emoses14 wrote:I am still entirely baffled by this. I've yet to hear a cogent argument as to why this is OK, why we can not figure out a way to get relief, how the figure of $36 million was derived, or, most importantly, why we didn't just ignore this for last year and this year and let the NFL prove the legitimacy of this move, in court, while we enjoyed our fairly maneuvered cap space. How in the world is the burden on us to prove a negative rather than on the league to affirmatively prove that a rule was broken?

We couldn't do that because, per the CBA, the NFL has to approve all contracts. And, they wouldn't approve a contract that violated the salary cap (including the penalty).

Ironically, the NFL approved the 2010 contracts that didn't violate any rule or the non-existent salary cap that year--but turned around and used those approved contracts to dock us $36M.

Ridiculous.

So to answer your question, like CLL said, the NFL does whatever it wants because they can.

The Hogster wrote:

emoses14 wrote:I am still entirely baffled by this. I've yet to hear a cogent argument as to why this is OK, why we can not figure out a way to get relief, how the figure of $36 million was derived, or, most importantly, why we didn't just ignore this for last year and this year and let the NFL prove the legitimacy of this move, in court, while we enjoyed our fairly maneuvered cap space. How in the world is the burden on us to prove a negative rather than on the league to affirmatively prove that a rule was broken?

We couldn't do that because, per the CBA, the NFL has to approve all contracts. And, they wouldn't approve a contract that violated the salary cap (including the penalty).

Ironically, the NFL approved the 2010 contracts that didn't violate any rule or the non-existent salary cap that year--but turned around and used those approved contracts to dock us $36M.

Ridiculous.

So to answer your question, like CLL said, the NFL does whatever it wants because they can.

I almost broke my fingers getting ready to type this very point in response to your first paragraph, but alas you beat me to it. This is like Inception for morons, its non-sense within the non-sense within utter hypocrisy.

By the way, CLL, you and I agree on the way the NFL treats its, slaves, uhm, indentured servants, er, "players" when it comes to pretty much any matter as well and the manner in which a LOT of people seem to think it's perfectly fine.

there's very little the Redskins can do to get the cap space back ... but anyone that thinks the FO and management are not doing EVERYTHING they can to get that cap space back OR 'adjusted' is just STUPID

same goes for any fans that think we'll get last years $18m 'added' back on - are you CRAZY?

the NFL does what it wants and trying to make sense of some of the things that come out of that office is just NOT happening

that's just the way it is

to imply that a franchise or a couple of franchises can go against the NFL just because the fans don't like it, is just NOT happening either

SkinsJock wrote:there's very little the Redskins can do to get the cap space back ... but anyone that thinks the FO and management are not doing EVERYTHING they can to get that cap space back OR 'adjusted' is just STUPID

same goes for any fans that think we'll get last years $18m 'added' back on - are you CRAZY?

the NFL does what it wants and trying to make sense of some of the things that come out of that office is just NOT happening

that's just the way it is

to imply that a franchise or a couple of franchises can go against the NFL just because the fans don't like it, is just NOT happening either

So pessimistic but so true We'll be alright though. I believe the players want to be there and will restructure.

However, in 2014 we'll be back in action.

I think we have what it takes to be a more than successful team this season; I think NFC East championship at is well in our grasp again. Seeing us beat Dallas twice this coming year will be better than a SB anyway

I still think we are going to sue. It should happen any time now, but maybe The Danny is waiting until the first day of FA to catch the NFL off guard like they did us.

I agree that I 'sound' pessimistic but the reality is that the BS that the NFL office has been responsible for just does NOT make any sense ..

The most we can hope for is that they reduce or eliminate this year's 'fine' but I would not bank on anything like that ... the decision is in place


I also am VERY glad that we have guys in charge here that have done a really great job and will continue to do so ....


we are not in bad shape all things considered and I don't see any reason that the team will not be as good if not better this coming season

like the 'saying' goes ... we're in good hands with Bruce & Mike

SkinsJock wrote:The most we can hope for is that they reduce or eliminate this year's 'fine

Not at all. The most we can hope for is to receive the full $36 million back plus reparations, as well as the other teams losing the stolen bonuses given last year. But that would not come from the NFL. There is zero chance of them willingly reducing or eliminating this year's portion of the cap hit. Our only remedy is through the courts, IMO.

see below

I guess based on the stupidity of their recent actions the chance of them giving back last season's cap space is a possibility ....

I think that is absolutely NOT happening ... but .... like I said stupid is as stupid does

ALSO

'hoping' for that seems to be a little stupid to me - have at it


I think there is more chance that they'll take away our 1st round draft pick from last year - give us all $36M cap space back & make RG3 a NY giant ...

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Because they can... This is the same unfair process that the players are subjected to but most everyone is fine with that....

The Redskins have always operated with their own process when it comes to the Cap... there are a few teams worst off than the Redskins.

According to my numbers the Skins are actually sitting at $2,892,750 over the cap before the signing Ron Brace (his max. salary will be $790K but at the most will only add $305K to the cap...or may have no impact at all).

This is the NFCE Champs we're talking about.... not a team trying to get to get to the top. Here's the rest of the NFC cap situation:

The Eagles Current 2013 Cap Space is $25,542,684 under after reworking D. Jackson's deal last year and Vick's last week. They have the most space and NO chance of winning the NFCE next year.

The Giants Current 2013 Cap Space is only $4,988,802 under and they had to part ways with Ahmad Bradshaw, Chris Canty, Michael Boley and Osi Umenyiora to get there. That's a lot to replace to get to where the Redskins already are.

TtiT's Current 2013 Cap Space is $18,272,172 over the cap, and they'll have to push a ot of current money into future years.

The Hogster wrote:
Ironically, the NFL approved the 2010 contracts that didn't violate any rule or the non-existent salary cap that year--but turned around and used those approved contracts to dock us $36M.

Ridiculous.

That's not Ridiculous
That was more like Almost Ridiculous


Ridiculous is stating what the Redskins did with Hall and the Fat Man's contracts was illegal and basically justified it by saying they would only do it in a "uncapped" year in order to have a advantage in future capped years, THEN approving Adam Carriker's contract two days later...

Carriker's contract is almost identical in structure as Hall's and Haynesworthless' “Illegally structured” contract, including the buy out option the league says they used to that pushed the money into the current year's cap.

If the Redskins do go to court with this, I'm sure this contract will come up.

1niksder wrote:The Redskins have always operated with their own process when it comes to the Cap... there are a few teams worst off than the Redskins.

I was referring to how they're being treated by the league in regards to the matter.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

1niksder wrote:The Redskins have always operated with their own process when it comes to the Cap... there are a few teams worst off than the Redskins.

I was referring to how they're being treated by the league in regards to the matter.

I know, I'm just saying... like I always say, the Skins and the Salary Cap aren't compatible. They where punished for breaking Cap rules (when there was no cap by losing), right before free agency started and responded by handing out $139,496,000 in contracts (if you include Fred Davis being tagged). Which might be why Mara wanted to take draft picks instead of Cap space. In the end they kept the picks and had the money to sign the top QB and top RB drafted last year.

1niksder wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

1niksder wrote:The Redskins have always operated with their own process when it comes to the Cap... there are a few teams worst off than the Redskins.

I was referring to how they're being treated by the league in regards to the matter.

I know, I'm just saying... like I always say, the Skins and the Salary Cap aren't compatible. They where punished for breaking Cap rules (when there was no cap by losing), right before free agency started and responded by handing out $139,496,000 in contracts (if you include Fred Davis being tagged). Which might be why Mara wanted to take draft picks instead of Cap space. In the end they kept the picks and had the money to sign the top QB and top RB drafted last year.

Gotcha.

1niksder wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

1niksder wrote:The Redskins have always operated with their own process when it comes to the Cap... there are a few teams worst off than the Redskins.

I was referring to how they're being treated by the league in regards to the matter.

I know, I'm just saying... like I always say, the Skins and the Salary Cap aren't compatible. They where punished for breaking Cap rules (when there was no cap by losing), right before free agency started and responded by handing out $139,496,000 in contracts (if you include Fred Davis being tagged). Which might be why Mara wanted to take draft picks instead of Cap space. In the end they kept the picks and had the money to sign the top QB and top RB drafted last year.

Would you then say that practically speaking the Redskins' cap situation is one that never truly hampers their ability to do most (if not all) of what they want to do? And, secondarily, that this is what really pissed Mara off because he's not been able to figure out how to do this?

emoses14 wrote:

1niksder wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

1niksder wrote:The Redskins have always operated with their own process when it comes to the Cap... there are a few teams worst off than the Redskins.

I was referring to how they're being treated by the league in regards to the matter.

I know, I'm just saying... like I always say, the Skins and the Salary Cap aren't compatible. They where punished for breaking Cap rules (when there was no cap by losing), right before free agency started and responded by handing out $139,496,000 in contracts (if you include Fred Davis being tagged). Which might be why Mara wanted to take draft picks instead of Cap space. In the end they kept the picks and had the money to sign the top QB and top RB drafted last year.

Would you then say that practically speaking the Redskins' cap situation is one that never truly hampers their ability to do most (if not all) of what they want to do? And, secondarily, that this is what really pissed Mara off because he's not been able to figure out how to do this?

I'm saying Eric Schaffer is the best at what he does and it doesn't really matter if the rules change, go away, or are made up after the fact. I can't say the redskins are never hampered but because of Schaffer they are not prevented from doing what they want.

and Roger pocketed almost 30 million....

I thought Danny Snyder would fight this, he has spent and spent money over the years overpaying players. He would do anything to win, but he has laid down here and done nothing, that we know of, I wish he would expose the NFL on this matter.