The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Per MMQB wrote:Will Montgomery, C, Washington. A standout all season for Washington, he's the No. 2 rated center in the game this year, according to ProFootballFocus.com rankings. Montgomery kept Robert Griffin III clean all game Thursday and was a force in the running game as well. The Redskins did a very smart thing in the offseason when they knew they were in cap jail but also knew they wanted to keep this promising 29-year-old center as the centerpiece for a rebuilt line to protect RGIII. They signed him to an extension through the 2016 season, guaranteeing only $2.5 million of his deal; Montgomery will earn $12 million over the next four years, a good deal for a center who earned it, and a good deal for the team paying him.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z2DLwuQJuc

- I find this interesting because in the past 2 weeks I've seen glowing articles about our Center by national publicity.

But...

- From within the fan-base (inside), he's garbage. And the offensive line is garbage...


I think this fanbase is too hard on this team. But that's just my opinion. I'm reading posts in other threads saying that we need to fire Kyle. YET!! I'm listening to podcasts by Greg Cossell, an esteemed NFL analyst) and he's praising the work done by Kyle. His latest podcast talks about new concepts within the NFL and he's going in detail about how the Redskins are doing something totally unique within the NFL.

It seems as if a lot of people don't watch any other team but the Redskins. What I've found as I watched game, after game, after game is that the teams where we feel the grass is greener, they go through the same things. I'm watching the Ravens play (praying they lose) and I see their LB's struggling in coverage, just like ours. #shrug

Montgomery did some nice blocking on the second level this week. People are starting to comment on it more and more.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Per MMQB wrote:Will Montgomery, C, Washington. A standout all season for Washington, he's the No. 2 rated center in the game this year, according to ProFootballFocus.com rankings. Montgomery kept Robert Griffin III clean all game Thursday and was a force in the running game as well. The Redskins did a very smart thing in the offseason when they knew they were in cap jail but also knew they wanted to keep this promising 29-year-old center as the centerpiece for a rebuilt line to protect RGIII. They signed him to an extension through the 2016 season, guaranteeing only $2.5 million of his deal; Montgomery will earn $12 million over the next four years, a good deal for a center who earned it, and a good deal for the team paying him.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z2DLwuQJuc

- I find this interesting because in the past 2 weeks I've seen glowing articles about our Center by national publicity.

But...

- From within the fan-base (inside), he's garbage. And the offensive line is garbage...


I think this fanbase is too hard on this team. But that's just my opinion. I'm reading posts in other threads saying that we need to fire Kyle. YET!! I'm listening to podcasts by Greg Cossell, an esteemed NFL analyst) and he's praising the work done by Kyle. His latest podcast talks about new concepts within the NFL and he's going in detail about how the Redskins are doing something totally unique within the NFL.

It seems as if a lot of people don't watch any other team but the Redskins. What I've found as I watched game, after game, after game is that the teams where we feel the grass is greener, they go through the same things. I'm watching the Ravens play (praying they lose) and I see their LB's struggling in coverage, just like ours. #shrug

Guess you haven't been reading my posts.....

I have always maintained that Montgomery is a very good center and think that Kyle has done a very good job of basically creating an offense to fit around RGIII.

I think people tend to see what they want to see --- and once they have made up their mind, they won't change it. Kyle has done a good job this year. We're 7th in the NFL in points scored. 2nd in the NFL in rushing. Meanwhile we still have a below avg OL, WRs, and TEs. The only thing Kyle has been able to work with is RGIII and Morris. Kyle has been very creative and successful in scheming for a poor OL and lack of consistent passing options for RGIII.

While I still believe we need to upgrade our OL, the center position is not one of need. I have actually been fairly happy with Polumbus, but we unquestionably still need an upgrade -- but believe that upgrades at both OG positions are more important. That said, we have bigger holes to fill in our secondary --- which should be our numbers 1, 2, and 3 concerns. These will have to wait.

I also watch other teams, but can honestly say that our secondary is one of the worst I have seen. The perverbial grass is dead on our side of the street.

I think it's often the case that the people with bad things to say make more noise than the people with good things to say, especially after a loss but sometimes also after a win (maybe not so much after a string of wins). I know some fans go through pains to point out positives or progress on some dimension or another, but that's not really the way most fans can or do operate. I think most of us do watch other teams, but because we don't suffer emotional trauma from their defeats and because we haven't so internalized their past failings, we may be quicker to (consciously or subconsciously) excuse their missteps in a way we don't for the Skins.

cvillehog wrote:I think it's often the case that the people with bad things to say make more noise than the people with good things to say, especially after a loss but sometimes also after a win (maybe not so much after a string of wins). I know some fans go through pains to point out positives or progress on some dimension or another, but that's not really the way most fans can or do operate. I think most of us do watch other teams, but because we don't suffer emotional trauma from their defeats and because we haven't so internalized their past failings, we may be quicker to (consciously or subconsciously) excuse their missteps in a way we don't for the Skins.

I agree. The board is always much quieter after a win or string of wins, especially when they are blowouts. I don't get it myself . . . that's when I tend to check the board the most. But to each his own.

Good post CLL !!!

I "was" one of those people that complained about our OL this season and I must say I am happy to eat my words after the last couple of weeks.

Glad to see them "gel" and make an impact the way they have. Blocking for RG and our RBs have made it hard on defenses and they've been giving RG time to find WRs.

Keep up the great work OL, very proud of you all !!!

I think a lot of the criticism is a carry over from last year. The o-line is definitely better this year than last. This years O-line has a better quarterback and a running back that fits the scheme better. The holes they open are hit faster and they do not have to hold their blocks as long. That alone improves their confidence and makes them better.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Per MMQB wrote:Will Montgomery, C, Washington. A standout all season for Washington, he's the No. 2 rated center in the game this year, according to ProFootballFocus.com rankings. Montgomery kept Robert Griffin III clean all game Thursday and was a force in the running game as well. The Redskins did a very smart thing in the offseason when they knew they were in cap jail but also knew they wanted to keep this promising 29-year-old center as the centerpiece for a rebuilt line to protect RGIII. They signed him to an extension through the 2016 season, guaranteeing only $2.5 million of his deal; Montgomery will earn $12 million over the next four years, a good deal for a center who earned it, and a good deal for the team paying him.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z2DLwuQJuc

- I find this interesting because in the past 2 weeks I've seen glowing articles about our Center by national publicity.

But...

- From within the fan-base (inside), he's garbage. And the offensive line is garbage...


I think this fanbase is too hard on this team. But that's just my opinion. I'm reading posts in other threads saying that we need to fire Kyle. YET!! I'm listening to podcasts by Greg Cossell, an esteemed NFL analyst) and he's praising the work done by Kyle. His latest podcast talks about new concepts within the NFL and he's going in detail about how the Redskins are doing something totally unique within the NFL.

It seems as if a lot of people don't watch any other team but the Redskins. What I've found as I watched game, after game, after game is that the teams where we feel the grass is greener, they go through the same things. I'm watching the Ravens play (praying they lose) and I see their LB's struggling in coverage, just like ours. #shrug

C'mon, Chris. Kyle sucks, Monty sucks, our kicker can only make FGs, Moss is too old, we never shoulda signed Morgan, and the Cowboys are America's team!

#sarcasm

One thing to notice about Montgomery is that we're not seeing the defense crunch the middle like they had with Rabach at center. I'm on record for disliking Rabach. Montgomery's play clearly has outshown his predecesor's.

For the most part I have been impressed with Kyle. Time management and throwing a few yards short of the first on 3rd downs would be my beef.

The offensive line is the best it's been in years. Polumbus has been surprisingly serviceable, Williams is a beast, and the interior line is quietly holding his own.

I'm not so sure about Polumbus. I think he is our weakest link.

I would add that some here like to make posts out to be different than intended

I think Kyle is a good OC - I think that the offense would do better with someone else - RG3 has turned bad play calls into good plays - that's just my opinion - I could care less what the stats say - RG3 made a lot of the plays that make Kyle look better as an OC

I think Forbath is a really good FG kicker who needs to work on his kick offs - UNTIL I found out that Mike and Danny do NOT want him putting the ball through the end zone so that the kick coverage teams can ensure good field position .. thanks for clarifying that for me

I like what this FO has done and I think that Mike will get another year, however I'm looking forward to Mike not being the HC - so what

I think that this franchise has done really well considering where we were in 2009

I'm looking forward to this next game - it's fun to watch these guys play again

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I think this fanbase is too hard on this team. But that's just my opinion.

Nah I agree with you, CLL. The fanbase has been beat down and has no patience anymore. I don't really remember if it was always this way or not. Just is what it is.

Honestly though, I don't think I've read a lot of complaints about the o-line this season though - at least here on this message board. It seems like we all expected the line would be terrible, and they haven't been. People haven't been giving them much credit. I think a lot of fans feel like the credit is more due to RGIII than the line?

That's cool about Montgomery. Lichtensteiger has been surprisingly good and solid this season too IMO.

SkinsJock, I am dying to know who this mystery OC is we can hire who is so much better than Kyle????

SJ is trying to have it both ways, which I guess is his prerogative.

cvillehog wrote:SJ is trying to have it both ways, which I guess is his prerogative.

I'll just say SJ may be critical of the team at times, but he's been one of the guys preaching patience for the past year. He hasn't been one of those fans screaming that we have to fire the entire staff anytime we lose a game.

This line this year is better. But one must ask is it better because they are getting better and finally have some chemistry playing together or does RG3 mask issues? I also think the weak links are right guard and right tackle. I for some reason don't like Chester and Polumbus. Maybe I am just a homer but I wonder how good this line would be if Jammal Brown was healthy and was playing.

I'll be the first to admit that I need to eat a big pile of crow when it comes to Monty. I thought we needed an immediate upgrade there, but he is playing at a pro bowl level this year.

Smithian wrote:The offensive line is the best it's been in years. Polumbus has been surprisingly serviceable, Williams is a beast, and the interior line is quietly holding his own.

I think RGIII makes this OL look much better than it actually is. Much better.

Polumbus is serviceable. Not great, but he is doing more than expected (at least from me). I personally thought he would be a huge liability and teams would stack that side. Now they may have done this if RGIII and his abiility to run quickly to the other side wasn't there....

Both guards are again, serviceable or mediocre at best. It is MHO that Morris is the true beast. If he were even an average RB and went down on even 50% of first contact, we would be talking much differently about our OGs.

I have generally maintained that the OL is what makes RBs and QBs look good. I have been self-corrected in that I believe RGIII and Morris have actually made our below-avg to mediocre OL look half decent.

As someone most would consider a more "realistic" poster, I can whole-heartedly say it is MHO that Morris is a top 3 RB in the league (honestly there is NOT ONE single RB I would trade Morris for straight up) and RGIII is a top 10 QB (can't put him in top 5 above Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees, and Ryan right now). That kind of talent really makes a line look much better than it really is.

markshark84 wrote:

Smithian wrote:The offensive line is the best it's been in years. Polumbus has been surprisingly serviceable, Williams is a beast, and the interior line is quietly holding his own.

I think RGIII makes this OL look much better than it actually is. Much better.

DUH

RG3 makes EVERYONE (ALL the players on offense) look better

RG3 makes Kyle Shanahan look much better

gotta love it

SkinsJock wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

Smithian wrote:The offensive line is the best it's been in years. Polumbus has been surprisingly serviceable, Williams is a beast, and the interior line is quietly holding his own.

I think RGIII makes this OL look much better than it actually is. Much better.

DUH

RG3 makes EVERYONE (ALL the players on offense) look better

RG3 makes Kyle Shanahan look much better

gotta love it

I heard RGIII just kicked Chuck Norris' ass.

SkinsJock wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

Smithian wrote:The offensive line is the best it's been in years. Polumbus has been surprisingly serviceable, Williams is a beast, and the interior line is quietly holding his own.

I think RGIII makes this OL look much better than it actually is. Much better.

DUH

RG3 makes EVERYONE (ALL the players on offense) look better

RG3 makes Kyle Shanahan look much better

gotta love it

Nice to see people are coming to understand EVERYTHING I was saying during my 250+ postings during my anti-JC tenure.

BTWs --- did anyone catch JCs incredible game in Cutler's absence last week? I actually recall a thread back in 2008 (or somewhere around there) where a large majority of posters on this cite proclaiming that JC was BETTER than Cutler...... JC was literally booed off the field after playing the second half of the Texans game (No, I'm not that obsessed, well....... no, I live in Houston). In the SF game, I was told that the announcers were saying JC was doing all the dumb things he did in DC like missing receivers, dumping off to RBs, slow reads. I guess old habits die hard.....

Could it be that all the JC excuses were just that --- excuses......

If there is one MAJOR thing we can all take away from this season and RGIII --- it the fact that great players produce; regardless of cirumstance. They make it work no matter what. Excuses are the quickest way to long-lasting failure.

riggofan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I think this fanbase is too hard on this team. But that's just my opinion.

Nah I agree with you, CLL. The fanbase has been beat down and has no patience anymore. I don't really remember if it was always this way or not. Just is what it is.

Honestly though, I don't think I've read a lot of complaints about the o-line this season though - at least here on this message board. It seems like we all expected the line would be terrible, and they haven't been. People haven't been giving them much credit. I think a lot of fans feel like the credit is more due to RGIII than the line?

That's cool about Montgomery. Lichtensteiger has been surprisingly good and solid this season too IMO.

SkinsJock, I am dying to know who this mystery OC is we can hire who is so much better than Kyle????

Very many, but not all. And yes, RGIII is a big part of it.

It's not like all these things are mutually exclusive or that something is due to all one person. As boring as it is, clearly it's some combination of line play, RG3's play and coaching/scheming.

My comment about SJ wanting it both ways (which applies to others as well) is their heads-I-win/tales-you-lose approach to issues. If a play fails or a game is lost, that's Kyle's (or Mike's) fault; if a play goes well or a game is won, that's the players (specifically RG3).

I like it

My main issue with Kyle is that I don't think he has as much faith in the run game as he should - I'm old fashioned about having a good run game while at the same time, I firmly believe in setting up a good run game with the pass ...

since Kyle has been the OC here he has not shown the patience that I think a good OC needs and has tended to go to call too many high risk plays too early in the game

having a good ground game and a good pass defense is to me the best chance for success Kyle has often gone away from the run game to try and "make something happen .." and to force the issue when he does not have the weapons

credit where credit is due - I do think that between Mike and Kyle we have done well offensively ....
I just don't think that a lot of that is due to Kyle - that's just me

I don't have anyone in mind to be OC - I just think that there are a lot of OCs that could do better with this incredible QB


I also think that Mike and Kyle are here for another year ... and that's not a bad thing ... I just feel we could do better without both Mike and Kyle

I'm just looking forward to seeing this incredibly talented QB with a better OC .. it will happen eventually

hey it's a fan's site - what the ...