The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Some say yes and I'm sure others will say NO....it's just Football.

One Skins player says Rams played Dirty:

Rich Campbell ‏@Rich_Campbell

Darrel Young: "This is THE dirtiest game I’ve ever played in." #Redskins
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The rams played dirty and the ref's allowed it. We should have either kept our cool or give it to them right back. It's always the 2nd guy and we tended to be the 2nd guy all day.

Playing Dirty or was it...........Bounty-Gate II...???

Of course they played dirty and it was brilliant.

Fisher got in his team's head and had them fired up. They even said it during the broadcast quoting Fisher as saying "don't let anyone tell you [last week's game] was okay, because you still lost".

He probably fed them all they could take about nobody giving them a chance to win, and the media questioning the RGIII trade, and the Redskins figuring they were soft after New Orleans and had them seeing red from the start.

The Redskins clearly weren't prepared for a "grudge-match" type game and it showed. The Rams got in their head and it was just enough to throw them off.

It was genius psychology on Fisher's part and a good learning experience for RGIII that thankfully came on week 2 and not week 12.

It was aggressive, physical, hard-nosed football. Our team has been soft for a while now, hopefully a game like this helps in the long run.

These type of games will happen again. So yes I agree I hope they learn from it. There will always be an overly agressive type defender like Finnegan. That type of intensity would cause a more seasoned team to focus more. Ever notice how Peyton Manning or Brady reacts. They just start carving up opposing defenses when things get hot.

Hopefully Morgan can just shrug it off and keep it in his head. Saying to himself OK I am just going to let my play do all the talking rather then throwing the ball at the player and costing us 15 yards!
Truth be told I am perfectly fine with having Hankerson, Robinson, Garcon and Moss playing the game. If he cant shape up ship out. However I am willing to give the guy another shot. If he keeps doing it then time to go.

Yes, they were dirty, but that would have stopped if the refs had called the many unsportsmanlike penalties that they should have. It was happening all game long. Even RGIII lost his cool with it early on, but regained his composure to lead by example.

D Hall could have been called for unsportsmanlike himself many times in the game for getting involved in the silly stuff, but it was Morgan's misfortune (I'm being generous) to get the flag when so much had gone unpunished before.

Of course, it's "puzzling" that the official standing 5 yards away could see Morgan throwing the ball at Finnegan, but seemed utterly oblivious to Finnegan's shove of Morgan's facemask.

I watched two games yesterday. Ravens/Eagles & obviously our game.

In both games, the referee's had zero control over the players. I do not excuse Josh's actions but the referee's set the stage for someone/something to happen.

What we saw yesterday was how the scab refs are a danger to player safety and the integrity of the game. It seems more pronounced than week 1 and I think that the NFLPA needs to grow a pair and take a stand.

They should hold out until the NFL and the refs can get things resolved. But they won't because they're a bunch of phonies like the owners.

Yes they were dirty. The refs did not control the game so players from both teams took liberties. The Rams took more.
The Redskins need to keep their heads out of their Romo's and get even by scoring.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I watched two games yesterday. Ravens/Eagles & obviously our game.

In both games, the referee's had zero control over the players. I do not excuse Josh's actions but the referee's set the stage for someone/something to happen.

What we saw yesterday was how the scab refs are a danger to player safety and the integrity of the game. It seems more pronounced than week 1 and I think that the NFLPA needs to grow a pair and take a stand.

They should hold out until the NFL and the refs can get things resolved. But they won't because they're a bunch of phonies like the owners.

Clearly Josh was provoked, but there's still zero excuse for what he did. He's supposed to be a professional, you just don't do that. It's an automatic 15 with the game on the line. He should be inactive this week. Maybe several weeks, until he grasps what he did. It was unprofessional and pathetic to do that to his team. It was to the level of childish of Brandon Lloyd.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I watched two games yesterday. Ravens/Eagles & obviously our game.

In both games, the referee's had zero control over the players. I do not excuse Josh's actions but the referee's set the stage for someone/something to happen.

What we saw yesterday was how the scab refs are a danger to player safety and the integrity of the game. It seems more pronounced than week 1 and I think that the NFLPA needs to grow a pair and take a stand.

They should hold out until the NFL and the refs can get things resolved. But they won't because they're a bunch of phonies like the owners.

Clearly Josh was provoked, but there's still zero excuse for what he did. He's supposed to be a professional, you just don't do that. It's an automatic 15 with the game on the line. He should be inactive this week. Maybe several weeks, until he grasps what he did. It was unprofessional and pathetic to do that to his team. It was to the level of childish of Brandon Lloyd.

So, did the Rams play dirty, or "just football"?
I think the "What should be done with Morgan" question is worth another thread. I've just watched Deion Sanders giving his opinion on NFL.com - I didn't feel enlightened by the experience.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I watched two games yesterday. Ravens/Eagles & obviously our game.

In both games, the referee's had zero control over the players. I do not excuse Josh's actions but the referee's set the stage for someone/something to happen.

What we saw yesterday was how the scab refs are a danger to player safety and the integrity of the game. It seems more pronounced than week 1 and I think that the NFLPA needs to grow a pair and take a stand.

They should hold out until the NFL and the refs can get things resolved. But they won't because they're a bunch of phonies like the owners.

Clearly Josh was provoked, but there's still zero excuse for what he did. He's supposed to be a professional, you just don't do that. It's an automatic 15 with the game on the line. He should be inactive this week. Maybe several weeks, until he grasps what he did. It was unprofessional and pathetic to do that to his team. It was to the level of childish of Brandon Lloyd.

Or Michael Westbrook at the end of the "head butt" game.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:Clearly Josh was provoked, but there's still zero excuse for what he did. He's supposed to be a professional, you just don't do that. It's an automatic 15 with the game on the line. He should be inactive this week. Maybe several weeks, until he grasps what he did. It was unprofessional and pathetic to do that to his team. It was to the level of childish of Brandon Lloyd.

But this thread isn't about Josh... I was talking about the refs.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I watched two games yesterday. Ravens/Eagles & obviously our game.

In both games, the referee's had zero control over the players. I do not excuse Josh's actions but the referee's set the stage for someone/something to happen.

What we saw yesterday was how the scab refs are a danger to player safety and the integrity of the game. It seems more pronounced than week 1 and I think that the NFLPA needs to grow a pair and take a stand.

They should hold out until the NFL and the refs can get things resolved. But they won't because they're a bunch of phonies like the owners.

The owners will "get the picture" (or maybe NOT) when their STAR player is injured and out for the season....due to the scabs errors....

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I watched two games yesterday. Ravens/Eagles & obviously our game.

In both games, the referee's had zero control over the players. I do not excuse Josh's actions but the referee's set the stage for someone/something to happen.

What we saw yesterday was how the scab refs are a danger to player safety and the integrity of the game. It seems more pronounced than week 1 and I think that the NFLPA needs to grow a pair and take a stand.

They should hold out until the NFL and the refs can get things resolved. But they won't because they're a bunch of phonies like the owners.

+1

Teams are going to push the limits as long as these idiot refs are in there. The Saints got away with what they could get away with. The refs lost control of the game early. But, it's our fault for falling into that trap.

I think everyone now knows why Andre Johnson whopped Finnegan's ****

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:Clearly Josh was provoked, but there's still zero excuse for what he did. He's supposed to be a professional, you just don't do that. It's an automatic 15 with the game on the line. He should be inactive this week. Maybe several weeks, until he grasps what he did. It was unprofessional and pathetic to do that to his team. It was to the level of childish of Brandon Lloyd.

But this thread isn't about Josh... I was talking about the refs.

Josh had the reaction because he felt the play was dirty. I realize that people go pretty far astray of topics, but trying to run it that tightly is a bit much. And the title doesn't say "refs" it says did they play dirty.

The Hogster wrote:I think everyone now knows why Andre Johnson whopped Finnegan's ****

Funny how context changes everything, isn't it? After yesterday I was loving seeing the clip you posted.

i voted yes but i don't think fisher game planned for it.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I watched two games yesterday. Ravens/Eagles & obviously our game.

In both games, the referee's had zero control over the players. I do not excuse Josh's actions but the referee's set the stage for someone/something to happen.

What we saw yesterday was how the scab refs are a danger to player safety and the integrity of the game. It seems more pronounced than week 1 and I think that the NFLPA needs to grow a pair and take a stand.

Well said, man. I watched the Ravens/Eagles and thought the same thing. I've been a little on the fence about the replacements refs v. the holdout refs, but you could clearly see yesterday that the real refs know how to keep games in control. You just don't see that type of play when they are around.

The Ravens game was REALLY bad. And the stupid refs kept calling offsetting personal fouls when the players got into it. If you're punishing NO ONE then what's the incentive to get under control.

We've got a load of young players, all excited after winning in New Orleans, and favourites for a clash in St Louis.

I'd be saying 'Get into them, get under their skin, get in their face, talk to them, distract them, bully them' just to see if they could cope. Who knows, it may put a talent like RGIII off their stride. It nearly did.

At the end of the day, if you're a good team then other teams will try all sorts of things to get a win, and you just have to deal with it. Teams like the Patriots have had this befroe and dealt with it. I admit the poor officials compounded the problem so it was a little more extreme/obvious than usual, but we must cope better if we are to succeed.

Yesterday, we did not cope with it. Yesterday we got rattled. Yesterday we got put off our stride.

That's a lesson that needs to be learnt.

Having said all that, the dirty tactics of the Rams had far less to do with them winning than the inability of our defense to cause Bradford any sortof problems.

We got nowhere like the pressure on Bradford that we got on Brees last week. Our coverage was questionable/curious/ill-advised/soft/poor/ suicidal (delete where appropriate)

Our defeat was a result of:

(a) Poor defensive tactics
(b) Piss-poor punt blocking (again!)
(c) Reacting to bully tactics / Too many penalties
(d) Going for a FG when 5 miles out of range

In that order.


Still, lots of offensive positives when comparing the group to last season, so not all bad.

I thought some players played really well.

On defense:

Josh Wilson - Excellent coverage again, and a TD.
Perry Riley - Getting better by the week
DeAngelo Hall - Lots of great tackles
London Fletcher - Lead by example
Rob Jackson - Did really well when he came in for Orakpo I thought

The rest flirted with being average, tactics were a major part in that however. Cedric is a concern....

On Offense:

RGIII - Kept us in it.
Montgomery - Arguably the best of the linemen
Morris - Continues to impress

Davis did OK. I would have included Robinson but ultimately his dropped catch was very costly.

A loss to learn from, but we'll win big next week!

H
T
T
R

riggofan wrote:The Ravens game was REALLY bad. And the stupid refs kept calling offsetting personal fouls when the players got into it. If you're punishing NO ONE then what's the incentive to get under control.

Interesting point. Offsetting penalties are a problem. But arbitrarily punishing one party in order to ensure that SOMEBODY, ANYBODY, is punished, can't be right?
What is galling about yesterday is that, to my burgundy eyes, the Rams instigated most of the dirty play, but the Redskins were penalised more overall.

UK Skins Fan wrote:

riggofan wrote:The Ravens game was REALLY bad. And the stupid refs kept calling offsetting personal fouls when the players got into it. If you're punishing NO ONE then what's the incentive to get under control.

Interesting point. Offsetting penalties are a problem. But arbitrarily punishing one party in order to ensure that SOMEBODY, ANYBODY, is punished, can't be right?
What is galling about yesterday is that, to my burgundy eyes, the Rams instigated most of the dirty play, but the Redskins were penalised more overall.

I agree Riggo.

UK, it can be effective if you do it early in the game when it has little impact. You don't let all that BS fly and then all of a sudden crack-down on the 4th like our refs did.

There is a common denominator here in Jeff Fisher ... keep in mind that the Titans had a reputation for being dirty .... remember Hanesworth and his "head stomp" .... and look at Finnegan constantly getting into fights, as illustrated in the famous match with Johnson.

Throughout the game yesterday, the Rams were pushing well beyond the limit all over the field. That attack on Fred Davis's head was not just a personal foul (that didn't get a flag), but should have resulted in an ejection from the game. That was a very dirty hit with the intention of injuring .... and that could have resulted in extremely serious harm. That punk did everything except pull out a .45 and shoot.

Then we had late hits on RG3 ... very late hits, for which Robert briefly mentioned after the game, but was smart enough not to elaborate on. I saw a Rams o-lineman on one play wrap his arms around Fletch ...throw him to the ground, and then jump on top of him and roll over him ... for crying out loud .... Fletch gets up ... and you could see the frustration as he outstretched his arms at the ref ... clearly gesturing ... WTF are you guys doing out here?

These are just a few of the more visible examples ... what is probably going to show up on film is a lot of little things like shoving heads into the ground as a player gets up from a tackle ... a lot of shots to the head and face ... etc. .... that type of stuff happens in every game, but this one, you could clearly see was taking place every snap that the Rams defense was on the field, and was growing more bold and intense as the game progressed and they realized that these idiots in stripes were not going to flag this stuff.

Was Morgan an idiot for doing what he did? Absolutely. He could have played smart ... did a little acting, and let Finnegan's shove knock him over, and drawing a flag, putting the Redskins 1st and 10 on the Rams 15, with a chance to win the game instead of try an impossible field goal. For that lapse, Morgan should be demoted on the depth chart for a time, and give the other guys like Hank or Briscoe some more playing time .. and send a message to the rest that they just can't lose their cool like that.

But lets keep in the back of our minds that Morgan was dealing with Cortland Finnegan ... a notoriously dirty player, and we really don't know how many times during the course of the game that Finnegan may have taken some cheap shots ... since this group of refs were obviously graduates of the Ray Charles school of officiating.

But suggesting that Morgan be cut is ridiculous .... if anyone needs to be cut .. it's the idiot designing the blocking scheme on punt formations .... two weeks in a row, we have someone coming straight up the gut, almost able to tackle the punter with the ball still in his hands. I think it's the same guy who was looking to break the NFL record for blocked FG last year ... and the guy who thought it was a good idea to cut Gano ... a much younger kicker who was really shining on long FGs last year and would have had a much better record had he not have to worry about blocks.

We also might want to ask for an explanation of the strategy for defensive formations that have DBs playing 10 yards off the line all game long .. even on 3rd and 4.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

UK Skins Fan wrote:

riggofan wrote:The Ravens game was REALLY bad. And the stupid refs kept calling offsetting personal fouls when the players got into it. If you're punishing NO ONE then what's the incentive to get under control.

Interesting point. Offsetting penalties are a problem. But arbitrarily punishing one party in order to ensure that SOMEBODY, ANYBODY, is punished, can't be right?
What is galling about yesterday is that, to my burgundy eyes, the Rams instigated most of the dirty play, but the Redskins were penalised more overall.

I agree Riggo.

UK, it can be effective if you do it early in the game when it has little impact. You don't let all that BS fly and then all of a sudden crack-down on the 4th like our refs did.

Well, that clearly requires a level of judgment that is well beyond these replacement officials. I agree - you don't let it get out of hand, and then start cracking down in the 4th quarter. Nobody has yet come up with a satisfactory mechanism for punishing two players involved in a fracas, during the course of a game. Sending both players to the locker room would be equitable, but disproportionate. Punishing one with a 15yd penalty certainly isn't equitable, but might be the only practical solution. Fines mean nothing to these players.

Of course, this assumes that the refs actually saw both offences, lol.